Original Message 1/51                 Date: 06-Nov-02  @  01:33 AM   -   Do you do anything today?

GT

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Many of us have concerns for this and that, but never move to action. Voting is the very first step.


Heh, I even voted a democrat today (Justice Wells)

Shout out if you voted today.

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Message 2/51                 Date: 06-Nov-02  @  01:57 AM   -   RE: Do you do anything today?

influx

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green party and or none of the above.

still say its a sham tho. apathy is such a sad state.

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Message 3/51                 Date: 06-Nov-02  @  02:24 AM   -   RE: Do you do anything today?

BJT

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Well done 'flux

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Message 4/51                 Date: 06-Nov-02  @  02:27 AM   -   RE: Do you do anything today?

influx

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what, voting green? voting? stating its a sham?

honestly I dont see the point...but I guess in local elections youre more likely to see an honest result?

my case is that I just dont agree with the business as usual stuff, but the "dissenting voices" will never get enough voices to get anywhere it seems

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Message 5/51                 Date: 06-Nov-02  @  02:37 AM   -   RE: Do you do anything today?

BJT

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Voting Green,& voting generally. Its not that bad a sham, its that you guys have big party's and power corrupts. Also I reckon blue collars are under-represented, particularly due to the funding needed to run for government.


What do you guys think of compulsory voting?

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Message 6/51                 Date: 06-Nov-02  @  02:42 AM   -   RE: Do you do anything today?

Def Z

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No compulsory voting. A non vote is very telling.

I voted Green for governor, and I mostly voted Republican and various third parties for others. I voted AGAINST John Kerry (in Taxachusetts) because he was spineless in his support for the war with Iraq.

Most of my votes were protest. I'm glad I voted. I can complain now. Local is where it starts. Vote locally and you WILL see change. Yeah yeah bitch and moan power corrupts.

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Message 7/51                 Date: 06-Nov-02  @  02:51 AM   -   RE: Do you do anything today?

Mindspawn

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Heheh... Not to stir shit, but we do have the right to bitch and moan, whether we vote or not... That "constitution thing." =)

Seriously, hats off to ya if ya did vote. Someone's got to raise the flag of dissent, or complacency, depending on yer perspective...

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Message 8/51                 Date: 06-Nov-02  @  03:22 AM   -   RE: Do you do anything today?

k

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it was kinda weird that the one guy who voted against the iraq war was killed in a plane crash just before the elections

(ooo! conspiracy!) : )

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Message 9/51                 Date: 06-Nov-02  @  03:39 AM   -   RE: Do you do anything today?

GT

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Jeb took Florida

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Message 10/51                 Date: 06-Nov-02  @  10:53 AM   -   RE: Do you do anything today?

influx

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another bush, eh?

"What do you guys think of compulsory voting?"

honestly...someone just told me that in australia if you dont vote you get fined.

dont agree with things? Vote "none of the above" but JUST VOTE!!!

and they pay attention. it gets heard.

dissent is only an option when its vocalized, no?

feelin pretty punk rock tonight.

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Message 11/51                 Date: 06-Nov-02  @  11:48 AM   -   RE: Do you do anything today?

GT

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heh heh "punk rock"


is BT over by you? ;)

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Message 12/51                 Date: 06-Nov-02  @  11:58 AM   -   RE: Do you do anything today?

xoxos

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heh, my pal made a similar (more general) observation about people dying round election time too..

..and that fbi agent..

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Message 13/51                 Date: 06-Nov-02  @  12:08 PM   -   RE: Do you do anything today?

Zazza

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compulsory voting.. sort of like that idea.. but dont like it too..

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Message 14/51                 Date: 06-Nov-02  @  12:19 PM   -   RE: Do you do anything today?

k

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yeah man come on - coincidence or what!!!!! - anyways now the Uk and britain are both no longer democracies (even in name) and are both autocracies each controlled/led by an insane man the shit will really hit the fan.

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Message 15/51                 Date: 06-Nov-02  @  05:22 PM   -   RE: Do you do anything today?

d

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the UK and britain?

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Message 16/51                 Date: 06-Nov-02  @  05:57 PM   -   RE: Do you do anything today?

Zazza

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heh... picky..



 

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Message 17/51                 Date: 06-Nov-02  @  08:18 PM   -   RE: Do you do anything today?

Mindspawn

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Actually, as far as voting giving you the right to bitch, well if you do vote and shit gets fucked up, then you could say it's the fault of those who voted (assuming the non-voters weren't a majority...). See, for all the crap that goes on, I've been alright with the way things have been going over-all. If I started voting now, it might actually upset this fragile balance...=)

Peace All

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Message 18/51                 Date: 06-Nov-02  @  08:46 PM   -   RE: Do you do anything today?

xoxos

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i sort of like the idea of compulsory TOTAL HUMAN EXTERMINATION too, zazza... well, no 'sort of' about it really.

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Message 19/51                 Date: 06-Nov-02  @  08:47 PM   -   RE: Do you do anything today?

influx

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yeah, actually...Ive voted for like 5 years now, and...its not like the people Id like to see in power are ever going to be there...

wait...Id rather see NO ONE in power. that'd rock

sometimes it seems like Im not even involved. Peaceful detachment?

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Message 20/51                 Date: 06-Nov-02  @  09:27 PM   -   RE: Do you do anything today?

errata

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I voted green for the most part or left it blank! I'm a BIG fan of the "none of the above" option on the ballot! I think that you'd get a huge turn-out if you could vote none of the above!

And I agree... low turn out is VERY telling. It tells those in power that they didn't win by the will of the people. Which does little but to thumb our nose at our leaders, and warn them that steps must be taken to control and suppress us lest we might someday upset their right to rule!

The only FBI fatality in the WTC incident was the former director, who had stepped down a month before because the administartion ordered him to stop investigating the bin Laden family. 6 floors of FBI in the south tower, and he's the only fatality?

e

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Message 21/51                 Date: 06-Nov-02  @  11:12 PM   -   RE: Do you do anything today?

Zazza

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yeah, he wrote a book about his warningins to the fbi etc about the bin laden connection and how he was told to shut up about it... which was why he quit..

xoxos:'TOTAL HUMAN EXTERMINATION, like charity,' starts at home? Can I watch?

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Message 22/51                 Date: 06-Nov-02  @  11:33 PM   -   RE: Do you do anything today?

xoxos

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what? do you think you're just naturally attractive or something?

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Message 23/51                 Date: 06-Nov-02  @  11:34 PM   -   RE: Do you do anything today?

Zazza

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I have a certain inner beauty...  

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Message 24/51                 Date: 06-Nov-02  @  11:35 PM     Edit: 06-Nov-02  |  11:39 PM   -   RE: Do you do anything today?

dissonance

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in NH I voted for 4 Libertarians and 18 None of the Aboves as a write in.

did my job....


dissonance

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Message 25/51                 Date: 07-Nov-02  @  12:08 AM   -   RE: Do you do anything today?

influx

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yeah except some of the libertarians are all about big business 

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Message 26/51                 Date: 07-Nov-02  @  02:39 AM   -   RE: Do you do anything today?

JX3P0

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Something to think about.Now that i'm a non
citizen and all.I lost my "right" to vote.Let me
give you guys a little food for thought.Nobody
votes independent except the left.So if you
want to be spared the right,it's best to vote w/
the left.The mainstream left.Sort of how Perot
got clinton elected the left has allowed total
control by thinking that giving 10% of the vote
to a no go independent will make a
difference.It did.Good show peeps.Now they
have a majority in the
senate,house,presidency,and an edge in the
supreme court.

H- Watch our country reaganize,once
again,the rich get richer and the poor/informed
get locked up for safe keeping.I must give
congrats to non analytical thinking.If you get to
vote again and you don't like the right here's a
suggestion,DEMOCRAT straight ticket.it's not
the best system in the world but you have to
use the 2 party system as effectively as
possible.think about it.

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Message 27/51                 Date: 07-Nov-02  @  03:36 AM   -   RE: Do you do anything today?

PB

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I didn't bother. None of our canidates desearve to win. I'm not republican and our democrat is a stupid hobo

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Message 28/51                 Date: 07-Nov-02  @  06:49 AM   -   RE: Do you do anything today?

Zazza

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it's not much of a choice if you have to vote for satan's little brother to keep satan out is it?

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Message 29/51                 Date: 07-Nov-02  @  08:12 AM   -   RE: Do you do anything today?

errata

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Sorry H... I couldn't disagree more strenuously. If a system of democracy is to work the PEOPLE must vote their conscience. A two party system is not democracy... I was struck during the presidential debates 2 years ago by how often Bush and Gore said, "I agree with you" one to the other. The republicans say, "This is what we need to do.." and the Democrats say, "Yeah!, I'm not them!"... and we're told we're getting a choice. Well, low voter turnout is direct evidence that people aren't that stupid.

I think those who call a vote of conscience a wasted vote are simply caving in to the totalatarian hoodwink that's been perpetrated by those best served by the status quo.

Up with the liberation! Down with the proletariat!!! hehehe

e

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Message 30/51                 Date: 07-Nov-02  @  08:13 AM     Edit: 07-Nov-02  |  08:15 AM   -   RE: Do you do anything today?

psylichon

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"it's not much of a choice if you have to vote for satan's little brother to keep satan out is it?"




yeah, that's like owning a gun to protect yourself.

psylichon

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Message 31/51                 Date: 07-Nov-02  @  08:17 AM   -   RE: Do you do anything today?

psylichon

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anybody watch MadTV last saturday? (yeah, i kinda doubted it) They had a brilliant faux-debate where the two candidates just kept repeating each other's words verbatim. After a while, they started saying the same thing at the same time and were getting real pissed at one another. You had to see it, but it was perfect.

psylichon

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Message 32/51                 Date: 07-Nov-02  @  10:22 AM   -   RE: Do you do anything today?

Zazza

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hehe.. sounds cool...

the tory party in the uk (thats like the republicans) are just as confused as shit because the labour party (democrats) have just co-opted their agenda entirely and wrapped it up in a bit of 'we really care' window dressing...

they are busy comitting collective suicide and the liberals (3rd party) could actually take over.. on account of them being more liberal than labour.. weird..

it is very funny watching them agree with each other.. doesn't really cut it in a supposedly adversarial politcal system...

'I agree!'

'I agree more!!'

'I agree even morer!!!!'

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Message 33/51                 Date: 07-Nov-02  @  01:33 PM   -   RE: Do you do anything today?

BJT

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Yep, in OZ if you don't vote you get a $50 buck fine.

The idea with compulsory voting is to keep the lower-wage earner involved in politic's. I don't think a No Vote is telling, if you don't vote or don't get involved then it means they don't have to look after your interests, which is a real problem.

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Message 34/51                 Date: 07-Nov-02  @  01:50 PM   -   RE: Do you do anything today?

BJT

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Another thing, if you do vote and you vote for an independant who has no chance of getting in, they get to choose their preferences. In the case of the green party, they can say to the demo's or the repub's "If you want our preferences then you need to pass legislation for government funding so that not just the rich get to run for government, etc..." So even tho the greens don't get in they do get given some power by your vote.

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Message 35/51                 Date: 07-Nov-02  @  02:11 PM   -   RE: Do you do anything today?

cheddar

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Say it again - Vote marginal, vote the major party that could win the seat, except everyone traditionally votes for the otehr majopr party. Keep them working to get your vote.

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Message 36/51                 Date: 07-Nov-02  @  04:11 PM   -   RE: Do you do anything today?

dissonance

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"yeah except some of the libertarians are all about big business"

sure...but they aren't about subsidising them with Tax payer money...which means they are more about true "free enterprise" and not about corporate welfare..which is where most of the problem lies....less gov't not more.

dissonance

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Message 37/51                 Date: 07-Nov-02  @  04:30 PM   -   RE: Do you do anything today?

nomad

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i was surprised by how many libertarians were on the ballots here in florida... ok, so they weren't a major factor in any national races, but in many of the state house and senate races, it was usually only one of the major parties (incumbent) against a libertarian. they didn't do too well, but as a half-republican, half-libertarian i was encouraged to see the third party system starting up.... average vote was around 20% for the libs in the races i saw, which isn't horrible...

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Message 38/51                 Date: 08-Nov-02  @  02:53 AM   -   RE: Do you do anything today?

BJT

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Actually more governmental scrutiny may mean less corruption and therefore corporate welfare. (Enron, Worldcom).

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Message 39/51                 Date: 08-Nov-02  @  03:20 AM   -   RE: Do you do anything today?

influx

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nonsense. supposed to be "governmental scrutiny" in effect right now.

the government IS big corporation.

anyway...the libertarian thing...again, another ideology based on "ideals" but...sadly..the ethics required for a true libertarian system just arent there.

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Message 40/51                 Date: 08-Nov-02  @  04:52 AM   -   RE: Do you do anything today?

BJT

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Bollox. The bigger things are the more they are corrupt or immoral, true. But the fundamental difference is that goverments answer to the people. (Public) Corporations answer to the shareholders who are usually wealthy, and today employee concern (and safety) is low on the corporate agenda. The problem is Big Corporates lobby the government heavily, so much so that politicians now appreciate that they have to appease the corporate sector to look after their own political careers and to avoid bad press.

I look around and see our generation getting screwed over by corporate greed, but this is not a new thing, its been around since the industrial age, just that it has regained momentum in the last 30 years.

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Message 41/51                 Date: 08-Nov-02  @  05:22 AM   -   RE: Do you do anything today?

damballah

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uh huh, deregulation... "getting government off people's backs." translates into things like clear channel being allowed to buy up a huge percentage of the airwaves, as well as owning independant record promotion, concert venues and booking. boy, that's all worked out real good.

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Message 42/51                 Date: 08-Nov-02  @  07:43 AM   -   RE: Do you do anything today?

GT

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yeah, they might be heading for monopoly status

a la AT&T stylee

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Message 43/51                 Date: 08-Nov-02  @  11:05 AM   -   RE: Do you do anything today?

influx

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BJT...are you disagreeing with me?

The US government is NOTHING but a puppet for the corps. Pure and simple.

and the ones from the middle down get shafted.

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Message 44/51                 Date: 08-Nov-02  @  11:27 AM   -   RE: Do you do anything today?

pict

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I'm beginning to think K should rename this site Politech.

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Message 45/51                 Date: 08-Nov-02  @  01:06 PM   -   RE: Do you do anything today?

milan

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yeah, its interesting. since k created "the lounge" the political debate has been blossoming, there´s barely anything BUT politics in here. but thats ok, slaggit forum was always for fighting anyway wasnt it...

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Message 46/51                 Date: 08-Nov-02  @  01:25 PM   -   RE: Do you do anything today?

Zazza

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i think we need more 'my religion is better than yours debates'

and maybe more sport?

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Message 47/51                 Date: 08-Nov-02  @  01:28 PM   -   RE: Do you do anything today?

milan

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umm... how about more music?

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Message 48/51                 Date: 08-Nov-02  @  01:45 PM   -   RE: Do you do anything today?

Zazza

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go britney!

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Message 49/51                 Date: 08-Nov-02  @  02:08 PM   -   RE: Do you do anything today?

Maarten

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I'll volunteer to create a different topic...

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Message 50/51                 Date: 08-Nov-02  @  03:26 PM   -   RE: Do you do anything today?

nomad

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no, music is off topic for this forum ;)

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Message 51/51                 Date: 08-Nov-02  @  09:50 PM   -   RE: Do you do anything today?

BJT

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Influx I'm saying don't get dispondent and dissallusioned, this is half the problem. Corporations like to make you feel powerless. Intimidation is the game in corporate politics.

But the system can work, its just that some corporate old boys are f*cking it over.

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