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Subject: Slide on 303 wont work with Kenton


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Original Message 1/15                 Date: 01-Aug-01  @  02:35 PM   -   Slide on 303 wont work with Kenton

red.moon

Posts: 17

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Hi ,
Has anyone had a 5 socket kit fitted by Kenton,and can get
the Slide to work ?

I can get the Filter and Accent to work ok,but not the
Slide. Im using it through a Kenton Pro 2,Cubase and a Mac.
I was expecting to be able to play a long,continuious
note,(at the same pitch,just like it can on its own
seqencer),by jioning all the notes together by midi,but when
i try this, nothing happens.
If anyone can do this,please let me know how you do it,as
it simply doesent work for me,

Thanks for any help,
Redmoon....



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Message 2/15                 Date: 01-Aug-01  @  06:54 PM   -   RE: Slide on 303 wont work with Kenton

boris badenuff

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Nope. Won't work.



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Message 3/15                 Date: 02-Aug-01  @  12:19 AM   -   RE: Slide on 303 wont work with Kenton

red.moon

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Thanks for the reply Boris Badenuff,but how do you
know ?
Do you have,or know someone with a TB 303 who has
had a Kenton 5 socket kit fitted to it,or what ?

If this is the case ,i will be rather disapointed
with Kenton,as it would seem they are selling a
feature,ie,Slide,under faulse prete



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Message 4/15                 Date: 02-Aug-01  @  08:08 PM   -   RE: Slide on 303 wont work with Kenton

boris badenuff

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Sorry my bad, the 5 socket kit does indeed have a slide input, (I was thinking of the 3 socket kit, stoned again) To activate a slide just send a cv signal at the relevant place where you want the slide. I think you can use a cv or trigger pulse.



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Message 5/15                 Date: 03-Aug-01  @  01:36 AM   -   RE: Slide on 303 wont work with Kenton

red.moon

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Thanks again Boris,but im still unclear on this.
I think i was doing what you said. I was sending
information from Cubase, ie controller No,X,(i
tried various ones )to the relevent part in the
Kenton Pro 2. Then from the individial mini
jack/Aux Out of the Pro 2,to the Slide
modification IN,on the 303.
Result = Nothing
Im i doing something wrong ??
I tried many tests,ie,different,Aux OUT's in the
Pro 2,and they all worked fine for Accent and
Filter,so its not the Pro 2 not working properly.
I tried different leads,and different midi
controller No's,no joy. Is it the Slide mod faulty
? At the moment Kenton say no,but i havent yet
spoke to the principle engineer ?

At the moment,who knows ??????????????

BTW. Boris, did you mean you can get a long
continuious note to play on a Kentoned 303,or you
just think you can, but arent to sure ?

Thanks anyroad for your,or anyones intrest,
Redmoon



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Message 6/15                 Date: 03-Aug-01  @  12:11 PM   -   RE: Slide on 303 wont work with Kenton

OnAcid

Posts: 18

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Isn't controller 65 not for portamento (slide)? A lot of clones need this controller to be sent for slide (eg spectral audio stuff).

If you can't get it to work I'm prepared to trade my Syntecno TeeBee for your crippled 303 ;-)



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Message 7/15                 Date: 03-Aug-01  @  10:23 PM   -   RE: Slide on 303 wont work with Kenton

k

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portmanto on/off is 64 and porta amount is 65..

___________________________________

I had an idea for a script once. It's basically Jaws except when the guys in the boat are going after Jaws, they look around and there's an even bigger Jaws. The guys have to team up with Jaws to get Bigger Jaws.... I call it... Big Jaws!!!



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Message 8/15                 Date: 03-Aug-01  @  10:58 PM   -   RE: Slide on 303 wont work with Kenton

boris badenuff

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To be honest it sounds like a dodgy connection maybe internally, did kenton fit it or did you? Open it up and check to make sure that the wire hasn't come off or got a dry joint (not that kind of joint!) Another way to test is to connect a dead(ish) PP3 9V battery to a mini jack lead and connect it to the slide input and make and break the connection to see if it triggers the slide. If it doesn't then its prolly fuct, if it does then its to do with the way you have set it up. Don't try it if you are not confident though as if you do something wrong you could damage it.

In theory once you get it to slide you should be able to get a continuous slide by sending as many slides as steps in the pattern.



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Message 9/15                 Date: 04-Aug-01  @  01:28 AM   -   RE: Slide on 303 wont work with Kenton

red.moon

Posts: 17

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Thanks for the response dudes. I sent the 303 back
down to Kenton last week,as the chap on the phone
suggested. Basicly i have to wait for the
principle engineer to come back(after this weekend
) before i know whats going on. I dont think the
poor chap on the phone really nows much about TB
303's. I believe i tried controller 65 with no
success,and yes it was Kenton who originally
fitted the sockets.

It seems to be that i should be able to get a
long,continuous note /sustain,from what you guys
have said,and also what i was told by another
company,so i suppose it all depeness on what
Scotty at Kenton says. Why couldnt i just get a
straight answer when i phoned them ?
Anyway,without going into that issue,im still
holding my breath.

To be continued !!!

Also,thanks for your offer of a trade, OnAcid
,but im not quite ready to give up on Miss 303
just yet. Although i cant say ive ever heard
off,or heard to a Syntecno Tee Bee. Do you know
where i can hear some demos of one ? The ones i
have heard is a Future retro 777,which my friend
bought quite recently,but sold again,mainly i
think because the filters were too responsive. I
think i quite liked it though,as it was a bit
sharper than a TB,and may cut through a mix quite
well. I think hes using a software one now. Any
way,i dont want to bore you all about
clones,unless maybe someone wants to start a new
thread about them ?

Well thanks for another late night chat,and ill
get typing,if i get any more info,

Kee



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Message 10/15                 Date: 04-Aug-01  @  01:34 AM   -   RE: Slide on 303 wont work with Kenton

red.moon

Posts: 17

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Why does this forum always cut off the last part
of the sentence ?
Now im called Kee *^@!* All it should of read
was, Keep groovin, Redmoon....

+*^&%@!$@£%^&%*.



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Message 11/15                 Date: 04-Aug-01  @  12:30 PM   -   RE: Slide on 303 wont work with Kenton

OnAcid

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http://www.xs4all.nl/~syntecno/

Or check DJ terrorist's website



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Message 12/15                 Date: 30-Aug-01  @  10:18 PM   -   RE: Slide on 303 wont work with Kenton

Redmoon

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Just back to finnish of my findings. I got my TB
303 back this week from Kenton,and have learned a
few things.

When i was asking about being able to get a long
continuous/sustained note to play,what i was
meaning was a note to play indefinetly,for
however long you want,not just the lenth of a
measure,ie,16 steps. I could always get it to play
16 steps continuously through midi or on its own
seqencer by joining the notes using Slide,although
this note would die away eventually.I thought i
could join all the measures together on its own
seqencer to get a long note,but it doesent allow
me to do this as it always retriggers at the start
of a new measure,even if you try to join them
together by a Slide.

I hoped that Cubase and the socket kit would be
able to keep the gate open allowing me to then
play a long continuous note,but it doesent.

However,their is a workaround.What you can do is
play one note,then another note,very close to each
other in Cubase,and also over lap them.Say two 16
step seqences,but one of them offset by half the
note length.This will give you a long continuous
note as this holds the gate open and doesent get a
chance to close again as the other note comes in
quite quickly,and is Sliding into each other,but
this will also give you a bit a a helicopter
effect at times,depending on where the filter is.

So this is sort of achiveing my goal,and it is
something you cant do on its own seqencer. I still
am unsure what the Slide socket does,as it will
Slide by just overlapping the notes,but who cares
now,as long as it does it one way or
another.(Although the Slide socket might come into
play if you are atatching a midi keyboard directly
to the Kenton Pro 2 ?

Oh well,thats been my long drawen out
experiance,but i wonder if anybody can actually
get theirs to play a long continuous note just by
using one note.(I doubt it very much now but you
never know



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Message 13/15                 Date: 02-Sep-01  @  11:37 PM   -   RE: Slide on 303 wont work with Kenton

trevor

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Of course you can make it play a single continuous note - you just keep the gate asserted (high) for as long as you want it to keep sounding. You do that by drawing a 'long' note in cubase. It's just so simple, I can't understand why you're having trouble.

The TB303 has a very simple, single envelope generator that starts the note sounding the moment the Gate goes on (high). The VCA remains open and doesn't attenuate the sound until the gate goes low again, so therefore you'll hear the note continue to sound until the gate is released. It will sound forever if you keep the Gate high.

As I explained in my email to you ages ago, it may well be that your Kenton MIDI to CV unit is, for some reason, outputing a short _trigger_ signal as opposed to a _gate_ signal. I think this could be your trouble. But it's so easy to just grab a multimeter, and measure the gate output from your Kenton while holding a note down on your keyboard. You'll see it go to 5V (probably) when you hit the key and it shouldn't go back to 0V until you've released it. If this ain't the case, then ya need to reconfigure the kenton box (I've not used one, personally, but I presume they can be set up to operate in one of several trigger schemes). Man, this simply has to be the reason. Please do this test, otherwise you'll just carry on banging your head against the wall in frustration   Report your findings.

Operation of the Slide socket is simple. When it is activated (couple of volts or more across the terminals) the portamento (slide) circuit is activated. It has nothing to do with the envelope generator side of things and will not alone sustain notes.

Trev



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Message 14/15                 Date: 05-Sep-01  @  11:18 PM   -   RE: Slide on 303 wont work with Kenton

red.moon

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Hi Trev.I'll say something. You should get a high
positioned job at one of these "Companys",as youre
giving alot more input than certain other well
known places.

OK then.You say it should be so easy.That makes me
laugh.1st though please,read a similar thread i
had going at http://www.sospubs.co.uk/. general
music forum,
under the same title.

You say"just draw in a long note" Did that. You
say"make pro 2 send out a gate signal" Tried every
setting and possible combination i could think of
,on the Pro 2 and in Cubase.

The guys at Kenton had my TB 303 AND my Pro 2 for
about 3 weeks,(although i dont think they spent
much time on her)and they could'nt get it to play
a long continuous,indefinate,sustained note,(apart
from the way i described on my last post
above)They didnt even know if this was/is
possible,and they invented,fitted and tested the
Kenton kit.

On my S.O.S forum thread,i was talking to a guy
from Australia,who had the Devil Fish Mod,and was
using a Pro 2,and he Could easily get his to play
an indefinate note,using the same settings as i,
on the Pro 2,therefor my conclusion was/is simply
that its the Kenton Mod, thats stopping this from
happening.Even John Kenton Price told me that his
mods were very basic,as not to alter the TB 303 in
anyway if possable,unlike the DevilFish,(although
he also told me that it was about 18 yrs ago or so
that he first did the schematics for the mods,and
i think he pretty much has forgotten how its
done.)

You say youve not used one personally,thats fair
enough as i havent been able to find anybody else
using a Kenton 5 socket kit,and a Pro 2.If we
could find those illusive people,we could ask them
if they can get theirs to play a indefinate
note.Until someone uncatagorically say that they
can,i will continue to have my doubts with the
Kenton setup,as i have spent hours trying to get
it to do this "Simple function".

I do thank you though Trev for your help,and
taking an intrest in this,and i will try that
multimeter test when i can get hold of one.

BTW.Do you acctually have a modified TB 303 that
can play an indefinate note,or are you just
assuming that you can ?

Also to note,i actually sent down the email you
sent me,to Kenton,(your name not supplied) as it
did seem quite logical,but as i said,no joy.When i
play a note on the keyboard,the sound just
declines/fades away after about 6 seconds,no
matter what setting i have made.

If it turns out that im making a silly mistake,i
will tell you all, before i jump out of the
window,but i dont think i am,so lets hope we can
find SOMEBODY ELSE with my exact setup,(it
shouldnt be that hard) and see if they can play a
indefinate single note. ( Am i repeating myself ?)

I think i have spent far to much time on this
subject already,and had conseeded to use the 303
in the way i mentioned earlier,but if someone else
can make theirs do this,i would like to know,and
would spend more time on



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Message 15/15                 Date: 05-Sep-01  @  11:58 PM   -   RE: Slide on 303 wont work with Kenton

Redmmon

Posts: 17

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this matter to try and get the definitve answer.

Keep Rockin.

PS, I hate it when this forum cuts off the last
sentance .



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