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Subject: guns


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Original Message                 Date: 17-Oct-02  @  04:59 AM   -   guns

psylichon

Posts: 4573

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Just saw a trailer for Michael Moore's new movie "Bowling for Columbine." It's all about guns in America and it got me thinking. Why are guns such a problem in America? How 'sacred' is the second amendment?

Personally, I don't think guns serve any purpose but to kill. You can target shoot without lethal potential and you can kill animals without firepower. I don't like the government telling us what we can and cannot own, but I really don't see the need for guns in any society.

I'm curious what you guys think. Do we need guns? Would it make a noticeable social impact to outlaw guns? I think it may... more than waiting for the average American psyche to evolve.

Quoting Linda Richomond, "Twalk amongst yahselves"

I love the smell of stirred shit.

psylichon



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Message 71/147                 Date: 21-Oct-02  @  04:12 AM   -   RE: guns

psylichon

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I'm an idealist. I'm the only one around here that wants the world to be a better place? Fuck me. If we can't be idealists than there's no fuckin' point. There are lots of seemingly helpless social problems, but this one is just too helpless to fix?

I'm sorry Pongoid, I don't buy your car argument because autos definitely serve another purpose beside killing. Guns don't (excpet for maybe opening a door or two, but that's not how they're sold). Yes cars kill, but not purposefully.

I agree with all you gun people on the fact that we're probably past the point of no return on this issue. Taking guns out of people's hands is "unamurican" now, but that doesn't mean putting them there in the first place was right. Fuck if you can't see that!

The thing that I find interesting is that the only people that support guns in a philosophical manner seem to be people that grew up with guns. Even the way you guys talk about them is poetic and loving. Is there anyone here who doesn't own a gun who supports the philosophy of gun ownership? (Not the reality of guns but whether they are a good thing or not)

Fuck, If I'm not allowed to ponder what is best for society, then I just give up. We all talk about changing the world but in the end it's talk. I'm not doing anything about it (besides never owning a gun) but at least I can imagine a world without tools that serve no purpose but death. You guys can't even do that. Don't tell me my beliefs mean nothing... THAT'S a fuckin' lie!

I want to make it harder for people to kill one another. woo! I'm wacky! watch my sniff a flower and dance all crazy! Crazy hippy man!!!! head in the clouds!!!!!!

psylichon



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Message 72/147                 Date: 21-Oct-02  @  04:22 AM   -   RE: guns

Luciferenda

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Ideology won't help you survive. Reality will.



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Message 73/147                 Date: 21-Oct-02  @  04:39 AM   -   RE: guns

Pongoid

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Nah, go ahead and be a romantic, and later though I hope not with all of my heart, you will be a victim. I mean that when I say that I do not wish it upon you, but don't be surprised by human depravity.

The idea is not to live in a dream world til you get fucked in the ass by reality. It's to prepare for the worst, hope/pray for the best, and as reality falls somewhere in between, it all comes as a bonus. Works for me, anyhow.


Ape



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Message 74/147                 Date: 21-Oct-02  @  04:40 AM   -   RE: guns

Luciferenda

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OMG, I just re-read what you wrote earlier Psy...you'd allow yourself to be killed and your wife raped???!!!! WTF?? You don't know if you could kill him? Christ. Remind me not to marry you.



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Message 75/147                 Date: 21-Oct-02  @  05:16 AM   -   RE: guns

influx

Posts: 7627

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"Is there anyone here who doesn't own a gun who supports the philosophy of gun ownership?"

raises hand. I dont own a gun, but I see their necessity in THIS WORLD AS IT CURRENTLY IS.

my thing is...the people that want to take them away..the gubment...they want them out of OUR hands, but more in THEIR hands?

I dont fucking think so.

and psylichon..I didnt call you a flower sniffing hippy, and I dont see you that way. Your views are always presented clearly and effectively, and unlike pongoid, I dont see them as unreasonable, just a bit unrealistic (again, when applied to a current state of affairs)

whats funny is that I am incredibly idealistic, but all these "should be's" sometimes blind us to the reality...

doesnt mean we cant want to change things, but...

aww jeez its so fucking confusing!



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Message 76/147                 Date: 21-Oct-02  @  06:01 AM   -   RE: guns

psylichon

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heh... I feel ya man. It's tough. I know I'm in my own world here, but I want to think it could work. Just don't rule it out is all I ask.

I love this place.

psylichon

p.s. - I wouldn't ask my wife to kill for me either. You people place too much importance on your own survival.



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Message 77/147                 Date: 21-Oct-02  @  06:18 AM   -   RE: guns

JX3P0

Posts: 28

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I don't own a gun.Not because uncle scam
says I can't but because mainly I stopped
renting my studio out to G dogz.Fuck on my
way home tonight some big ass jerry curl MF
got out of his car and said he'd kick my ass if i
didn't stop following him.I was like yo we're at
a red light.WTF is this world coming top that
peeps have to be so violent when you could
just stop smoking boat and thinking i'm gonna
ram your crap ass econoline w/ a
plymouth.Come on the world is full of crazies.I
had to think about it and almost went and
picked up a gun tonight.But i'm playing uncle
scams game.Yes training is good but let me
tell you when it comes down to it all the
training in the world won't save you if you can't
react as if it's a natural extension of your
thought process.Reaction is key.It's the only
reason i'm alive.Look my best friend is facing
a murder 1 charge right now.It makes me
think about how dangerous the world is and
it's hard to escape that reality when you're of
the lower middle class on down.Why
someone would go out and attack someone
unprovoked unless it's to achieve a political
end doesn't fly with me.Yeah people piss me
off sometime but you can't hunt a helpless
victim if you're basically a good person.I'm a
product of a bad subculture and I fight
personal battles everyday but to see these
white MCs spouting off about gats and killing
all in the name of a bullshit thug culture is
whack.never once will you catch me spitting
about murder cause it's bullshit.Sure I sent a
nigga on a helicopter ride but i still give a shit
about the cat cause he's a person with a
life,That's why I didn't kill him.it's not my place
to decide when someones time is up.It's just
that when confronted to back down is the best
option.i don't and never have gotten g rap.Why
tell a story about something that glamourizes
a bad thing.But when it comes down to you or
me it's gonna be me who walks away unless
it's my time.Just like the other night some cats
(3) got killed in the lil hip hop club over drug
dealing and hos.That's bullshit.Yep it's a crazy
world but if you keep your wits aboutr you
gunplay should only be a last defensive
resort.seen.just make sure that if you tote a
gun that you know you can do the business
cause it might get used against you.because
the first time someone pulls a gat on me and
threatens they're gonna get it taken away and
limp around the rest of their life thinking about
me.

H

H



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Message 78/147                 Date: 21-Oct-02  @  07:39 AM   -   RE: guns

GT

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nicely said pongoid; so nice to hear a realist

in a sea of bleeding-heart uniformists.



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Message 79/147                 Date: 21-Oct-02  @  08:36 AM   -   RE: guns

influx

Posts: 7627

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so wait..GT..youre a right wing GUN SLINGER?

uh oh.

hey H..."but to see these white MCs spouting off about gats and killing all in the name of a bullshit thug culture "

can you clarify this? Is it somehow better that "black" MCs do it even more frequently?



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Message 80/147                 Date: 21-Oct-02  @  08:53 AM   -   RE: guns

brad

Posts: 486

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On a related note, breaking news from Los Angeles Mr.Wet (me) was down there for the first time ever on saturday nite AND NOT FIVE MINUTES OFF THE FREEWAY FOUND MYSELF IN THE MIDDLE OF A FUCKING GUNFIGHT.

For real, it wasn't down the block, this kid was RIGHT NEXT to my car unloading a big black .45 at some other kids across the street. This was on a little sidestreet right b4 Adams- just around the corner from my destination- Club Fais Do Do.

Anyway, I sat there stupid for a second like, "hey that guy is shooting a gun 10 feet from my car while I'm creeping up on him at 10mph" b4 my brain said stop fucking thinking and DUCK!!!

So I ducked and floored it, got past all the gangsters running around in the street w/out seeing anything but the floorboards, popped my head up and took the corner at like 40mph and stopped in the middle of Adams b/c cop cars were just swarming in from every direction. Still don't know how exactly I did it, but there ya go.

...would you believe there was another shooting a few hours later!?! And just last week some kid got shot and killed in the same area. Yeah, some weekly hip-hop party right next to fais do do, lots of underage kids it looked like. Much flexing, stupid shit. A huge waste of young lives, totally fucked.

But it doesn't change my own position on guns, which is basically pro legal guns, pro self defense. Like my Kung Fu master told a less-than-streetwise/realistic student once, not everyone grew up in a neighborhood where they all smile at you. He wasn't talking specifically about guns, but just the fact that...it ain't all good...wake up and recognize that.



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