Original Message 1/17                 Date: 13-Nov-07  @  09:46 PM   -   MaudioFW410 noise/PREAMPs problems!pls help!thanks

Anduuu

Posts: 8

Link?:  No link

File?:  No file

Hi there!

I have an M-Audio Firewire 410, and I experience a" tinkle basic sound to noise on my combo xlr preamps" of it, instead even the manual of the soundcard said that signal to noise is -107db!I've read all pro noise problems/issues manuals,BUT MY PROBLEM isn;t there!It;s something else,I think the signal itself is guilted//is gained noisely from preaps..
--- I've made all the tests both in the Cubase sx 2.2 audios and Sony Sound Forge 8, or even JUST talk LIVE into the microphone! THE SAME EFFECT - the signal of it from gains is accompanied by this TINKLE noise/the signal itself has a inadmissible tinkle for the presume quality of the soundcard -107db OR THIS is the 'quality'/noise of it's preamps?(and the mic is perfecttudio Projects B1) !!!
---I have the GAIN established at the best possition to work(the cursor of the gain is almost in the middle), and the soundcard works very good on the other hand(has no "software issues, only this is a HUGE problem=big rec noise problem)...
____ WHAT COULD BE??? IS THIS THE QUALITY OF the soundcard Firewire 410???Or THIS CARD is BROKEN or something???OR about an INCOPATIBILITY between B1 mic and FW410 preams??? PLEASE ANSWER THIS TO ME WHATEVER WOULD BE THE PROBLEM(what is really the problem???IT'S important to know it,whatever would be)!!! ____I've tested the cables too, and both preamps- sounds same noise signal, I think to big for the product image quality!WHAT could it be, and what is to be done! tkhs for understanding.

[ back to forum ]               [quote]

Message 2/17                 Date: 14-Nov-07  @  04:02 PM   -   RE: MaudioFW410 noise/PREAMPs problems!pls help!th

k

Posts: 12353

Link?:  Link

File?:  No file

is it the microphone? or the mic cable? did you try another one? are you using the correct drivers (not the windows ones) in your recording app'?

___________________________________

I had an idea for a script once. It's basically Jaws except when the guys in the boat are going after Jaws, they look around and there's an even bigger Jaws. The guys have to team up with Jaws to get Bigger Jaws.... I call it... Big Jaws!!!

[ back to forum ]               [quote]

Message 3/17                 Date: 16-Nov-07  @  11:47 PM   -   RE: MaudioFW410 noise/PREAMPs problems!pls help!thanks

Anduuu

Posts: 8

Link?:  No link

File?:  File

FW_410_tinkle_rec.mp3

Note:PLS STAY TUNED HERE A little and help me ,everybody u knows and especialy has experience with this M-Audio and closer sound interfaces,preaps,etc: Apreciated.


I' ve tested with another B1 mic and another cable, but it is the SAME thing! I've tested MY B1 MIC with Fast Track pro preamps ,and seemed that no tinkle heard(this make me think Fast track pro preamps are better than the FW 410 ones....hmmm,is really this a true?! )
And yeaaa, I have the right drivers - even last version of them from M-audio site....on the other hand I said already...this device seems to work perfectly on my sistem, on my Cubase Sx and ASIO drivers too, even in Sound Forge, etc. The idea is that even that it works "fine", I am not able to record at the quality that this device presume to itself - 107 db signal....and , I did the right knobs positioning...cables are well checked...the guys from the market said that "is only in my mind, but they are hear nothing..the device is not broken,etc" , but I know they lie to me, couse that tinkle sound on their both Mac and Win XP acts same like on my laptop and/or my PC....and it's obvious, even too noticeable!
IT:S CLEAR that after a lot of investigation( I mean not weeks , but months of studying and asking), nobody could answer to this issue, or is not an "issue"??
The problem is that I checked it all, and I found nothing!!! This makes me think that Firewire 410 has this "very low" audio recording quality, or am I wrong? And seems that Fast Track pro is better...again a rave I think , and I don;t know the truly true of this situation>>so, you think that my only real posibility is to "test it" at a professional sound team, if exists(I didn't find it yet) or at M-Audio Uk corp. before "I get rid of it"?

PS: second question(please answer if u know this FW 410):

M-Audio says about FW 410's mixer that has a "Total routing flexibility"....but I can't see there any "what u hear recording capabilities" that I even met it at AC 97 card. THis means to route the OUTPUT of what I hear in PC( a video movie sound), to an IMPUT like any Sound Forge or awesome products that records everything audio, BUT WITHOUT any cables(only internal,electronical route...all ac 97 has this capability).

DOESN"T THIS MEAN that FW 410 whick is better than that ones to be able to route that kind of sound? I thonk unfortunately that it hasn;t this facility, BUT IF I AM WRONG and if u know better this FW 410, pls learn me how to use that mixer panel to route this...apreciated, couse I need a lot this stuff to record "a wav from another playng wav(ex soundtrack of a movie whick I played from MEdia PLayer to record it in Sound Forge)----well, With AC 97/realtek/Creative, etc I always did it, very usefull for me...so there is any of this at FW 410/Fast Track pro? Answer to me pls.
And not forget about the first problem"the tinkle issue to answer"! I:VE POSTED A SWATCH sample with this issue to be easear to think about.
Thanks in advance.Andu

[ back to forum ]               [quote]

Message 4/17                 Date: 17-Nov-07  @  04:18 PM   -   RE: MaudioFW410 noise/PREAMPs problems!pls help!th

k

Posts: 12353

Link?:  Link

File?:  No file

wow!, thats one of the most a comprehensive fault descriptions i've ever seen!

so the problem is that whining high-pitched whistling noise.. which sounds like electrical noise to me.. this sound should not be there

all i can suggest is this: If the FW410 makes this whining electrical sound on your laptop AND your desktop in your house, then try a mains filter (borrow one)

if it still makes that sound with a mains filter, then take it back to the store and get something else.

also, mebbe you have lighting with dimmer switches in your house?... I am no expert but it sounds like electrical interferance

if you bought it from our partner store or from thomann direct i can help you with this if you have any problems.. if your purchased it from another store, then I guess you need to see the law in your country and see what this store policy is with you

lastly, I have a freind who is working inside m-audio... mebbe he has some information, I can try and ask him next week for you

---

routing - i dont know what they mean by this except perhaps routing from inputs to outputs in any configuration... i dont have this device, only the older 24/96 audiophile pci card so it is hard to say what they mean...

The only soundcards I know which allow real genuine s/w connection between different audio applications internaly as audio streams in s/w is the ESI products which have a s/w applet called ESI 'DIRECTWIRE' - Directwire is similar to Propellerheads Rewire and allows the audio signal to be routed from one s/w into another s/w using different drivers but the softwares do not need any special protocal like rewire... Directwire simply links internal audio streams between asio/mme and gigi drivers, so for example you can route the audio out from cubase into wavelab


hope this helps

___________________________________

I had an idea for a script once. It's basically Jaws except when the guys in the boat are going after Jaws, they look around and there's an even bigger Jaws. The guys have to team up with Jaws to get Bigger Jaws.... I call it... Big Jaws!!!

[ back to forum ]               [quote]

Message 5/17                 Date: 25-Nov-07  @  09:07 PM   -   RE: MaudioFW410 noise/PREAMPs problems!pls help!th

GrooveMonkey

Posts: 890

Link?: Link

File?:  No file

yeah, it does sound like electrical interferance.. have you got a friodge, washing machine etc on the same ring as the PC?

if yes, turn off the other stuff for a few minutes and see if it makes a difference.

oh yeah and lol... up the nob, down the nob wil deffo make you tinkle!

G

[ back to forum ]               [quote]

Message 6/17                 Date: 26-Nov-07  @  03:50 PM   -   RE: MaudioFW410 noise/PREAMPs problems!pls help!thanks

Anduuu

Posts: 8

Link?:  No link

File?:  No file

Hi again,
and thanks "k" for the tips anyway....

One over another,
"lastly, I have a freind who is working inside m-audio... mebbe he has some information, I can try and ask him next week for you"...please K ask him seriousely about __the problem with Firewire 410 background noise/tinkle noise from its preamps; they cound know better about their products!!
PS1 : and exclude when u are debate it with M-Audio friends, the issues that involve "electrical interfference or anything closer", couse in this way we coundn't solve nothing. II told you all before that IT'S NOT ABOUT THAT!!! I kNOW/try before of my comment ALL the other possible issues, and it;s NON about them!!!

THE problem is that I tried almost ALL sound FORUMS, and NON cound give me a real solution/answer to the REAL problem!!!!!!
So, u who read this can conclude that I Know every inch/posibility on this soundcard with no result...that;s why I ASK FOR M-AUDIO stuff, that either fom email said:"we can;t answer u to this difficult problem,until we have more details/see the card" or ASK anybody who have EXPERIENCE with FW 410!!
PS2: that is why I have so comprehensive fault, and also couse I HAVE TESTED THE SOUND CARD on>>>>>1) my laptop - at home, at a friend, at the M-Audio importer from my country AV Audio Sys Romania office, at the Av Audio sys service(both Apple and PC), on their MAc laptops, even in their pro studio, BUT THEY just didn't want to recognise that they HEAR a background/tinkle noise from my device(tip: sometime they did, but like liers quickly changed their mind _ "that is a man with no God")
2)on my PC - at home, on AV Audio Sys PCs, at a friend home, etc.
Besides, I had in my all flat nothing but my PC on, and so at my friens house, and at the importer's office. Nothing but the FW 410 and a laptop or a PC.

TIP: SO U ALL STOP telling me THAT it;s about electrical interference or it's seem! Read twice what I said in my comments and then tell someting, pls, ok? Otherwise u are camping and no help.
________I investigated for MONTHS this problem, myself and asking many others, and I clued after much studying ( I'm close to know this stuff better than even M-Audio ones, coud u imagine) that is about the PREAMPS...but even so studyed I am, I am doubt what to think about.., repeat: ----FW 410 quality?
----or really IT IS broken, witch have/can to be repaired?

PS ###3: ANYBODY WHO CAN REALLY HELP, please let me know, BUT not before read my comments carefully, and THEN to answer!!!

Problem 2:

I SAID "the OUT stream into IN stream, not viceversa"; ""The only soundcards I know which allow real genuine s/w connection between different audio applications internaly as audio streams in s/w is the ESI products which have a s/w applet called ESI 'DIRECTWIRE'""....well U forgot to say the "shat" "VIA mainboard's AC 97s on board sound codec cards" Is it!???
Note: 1)'K' also ask your M-Audio friend(s), about the routing possibilities of FW 410( CAN route OUT stream to IN stream, or to work like that, like AC 97s?);

2) and ask him WHY M-AUdio says about FW 410 that it has "BAss management", and IT APPEARS IS HAS NON OF IT? Where this bass management(ex: like Delta 1010LT has into it;s pannel) og the FW 410? Everybody who knows the answer, please CLUE ME!!!

""wow!, thats one of the most a comprehensive fault descriptions i've ever seen!"", SO people, at least NOW should CAN SEE I haven;t complained for nothing!! That;s why I put there the record too, to be heard from a pro one, who know it!Couse I know what I;m TALKING ABOUT!!!
SO, I am waiting for you "K" to answer the M-Audio guy for this several issues above, AND the others who wanna help here: don;t read through the lines, read all, and then answer, otherwise U ll NOT answer right!
MUCH APPRECIATED THE EFFORT,
ANDU.

[ back to forum ]               [quote]

Message 7/17                 Date: 26-Nov-07  @  04:30 PM   -   RE: MaudioFW410 noise/PREAMPs problems!pls help!th

k

Posts: 12353

Link?:  Link

File?:  No file

ok.. you say you turn off all electrical appliances in your house so only the pc is running

ok... so I will ask my freind, but i think mebbe it is a faulty product you have... can you return it?

___________________________________

I had an idea for a script once. It's basically Jaws except when the guys in the boat are going after Jaws, they look around and there's an even bigger Jaws. The guys have to team up with Jaws to get Bigger Jaws.... I call it... Big Jaws!!!

[ back to forum ]               [quote]

Message 8/17                 Date: 28-Nov-07  @  04:48 PM     Edit: 28-Nov-07  |  04:58 PM   -   RE: MaudioFW410 noise/PREAMPs problems!pls help!thanks

Malcolm Jeffery

Posts: 315

Link?: Link

File?:  No file

The problem has been disscussed in sos review, the high pitched sound is graphics cards and
other internal things in pc/mac mine does exactly this whine as well it is an unfortunate side
effect of firewire cables ground loops and cables all amplifying and picking up noise, the man in
sos said that by getting or making up pseudo balanced cables for both in and outs that it will
clear it up completley, I have used just balanced cables and that has helped somewhat, so go
get pseudo balanced cables and let us know if that works coz it should.

Malk

Go here

TARGET=NEW>http://www.soundonsound.com/sos/mar04/articles/maudio410.htm




In fact Kilo this would make a good small article as most soundcards produce noises that would
be cured by ths method. just turn up your master fader and volume with nothing playing of
course and listen to all the whirring and clicking.

___________________________________

"The music business is a cruel and shallow money trench, a long plastic hallway where thieves and pimps run free, and good men die like dogs. There's also a negative side." Hunter S.Thompson -

[ back to forum ]               [quote]

Message 9/17                 Date: 28-Nov-07  @  05:44 PM   -   RE: MaudioFW410 noise/PREAMPs problems!pls help!th

k

Posts: 12353

Link?:  Link

File?:  No file

hmm... i wonder how Anduuu has this all wired up? -

is the main L/R OUT from the 410 going direct to an amp/speakers or active speakers?... or is it feeding a mixer and then amp/speakers or active speakers?

the reason i ask is.. what happens if the 410 is totaly disconnected from any mixer/amp/speakers... so it is only connected to the PC inself via the firewire cable... then you plugin in a mic on a blanced cable, set the gain for a spoken vocal and then record the background room sound for 30 seconds... then play the recoding and monitor the output via the headphone socket so that again the 410 is isolated from any mixer/amp/speakers etc

is the noise still there on the recorded audio?

___________________________________

I had an idea for a script once. It's basically Jaws except when the guys in the boat are going after Jaws, they look around and there's an even bigger Jaws. The guys have to team up with Jaws to get Bigger Jaws.... I call it... Big Jaws!!!

[ back to forum ]               [quote]

Message 10/17                 Date: 30-Nov-07  @  10:52 AM     Edit: 30-Nov-07  |  10:53 AM   -   RE: MaudioFW410 noise/PREAMPs problems!pls help!th

Avene

Posts: 15

Link?: Link

File?:  No file

Hmmm, I used to have an FW410 interface. Ended up with both firewire ports blown. Useless, then later read on the M-Audio website that they'd just figured out that daisy chaining and hot plugging can damage the firewire ports. You think they could have put that in the manual. Anyway, I traded it in as soon as I got it fixed. With the serious problems friends have had with M-Audio gear too, I'll never buy another one of their products.

My suggestion for your FW410, sell it or trade it in for something better!

[ back to forum ]               [quote]

Message 11/17                 Date: 02-Dec-07  @  01:32 PM   -   RE: MaudioFW410 noise/PREAMPs problems!pls help!thanks

Malcolm Jeffery

Posts: 315

Link?: Link

File?:  No file

Yes but that said avenue, a simply set of cables will cure the problem, and yes kilo its something
to do with unbalanced cables into mixers that r or arnt balanced coz i only use internal
instruments at the mo none of it ends up recorded, but mics and analog stuff will record the
sound, the pseudo cables should do the trick, and yes the fire wire hotplug stuff was a real f up.
I read on the net about this after i hotpluged but i was lucky and no damage occurred.

M

___________________________________

"The music business is a cruel and shallow money trench, a long plastic hallway where thieves and pimps run free, and good men die like dogs. There's also a negative side." Hunter S.Thompson -

[ back to forum ]               [quote]

Message 12/17                 Date: 03-Dec-07  @  10:39 AM   -   RE: MaudioFW410 noise/PREAMPs problems!pls help!th

k

Posts: 12353

Link?:  Link

File?:  No file

i meant if he records with a mic lead (balanced) but not plugged into a monitor system, does he get the sound internaly.. it should be fine in isolation isnt it?

___________________________________

I had an idea for a script once. It's basically Jaws except when the guys in the boat are going after Jaws, they look around and there's an even bigger Jaws. The guys have to team up with Jaws to get Bigger Jaws.... I call it... Big Jaws!!!

[ back to forum ]               [quote]

Message 13/17                 Date: 03-Dec-07  @  02:54 PM   -   RE: MaudioFW410 noise/PREAMPs problems!pls help!thanks

Malcolm Jeffery

Posts: 315

Link?: Link

File?:  No file

Oh i see what you mean, dont know, it if the 410 is needed to get the sound into computer
ireckon its still there even if quiter quirerter, less loud jesus spelling. lets be honest the cheapest
way is to get the leads then you got a good sounding 24 bit card with 192khz on master outs and
96 khz on the others all at 24 / 16 bit prob solved, dosh saved, or just go f..k it and buy an
apogee with the gubbings and laugh at people using soundblasters..... and think ho ho ho any
noise i now have is higher quality noise than i had before.
M

___________________________________

"The music business is a cruel and shallow money trench, a long plastic hallway where thieves and pimps run free, and good men die like dogs. There's also a negative side." Hunter S.Thompson -

[ back to forum ]               [quote]

Message 14/17                 Date: 18-Dec-07  @  12:25 AM   -   RE: MaudioFW410 noise/PREAMPs problems!pls help!th

Anduuu

Posts: 8

Link?:  No link

File?:  No file

Well, I have TESTED always the FW 410, ONLY with headphones, mic and fw cable only( no power from AC). I used only a balanced cable, from B1 SP mic, to fw410 preaps. That;s all!
Speaking only from This Case, I experience always, even with no other wire(only cable between mic and preamp-balanced), that "tinkle" noise!

I seek pseudobalanced cables , but that is far a wrong idea, in order that a pro one costs almost like the device itself!!! And even so, other recordists told me that is not a big diference( the most important remains ONLY the preaps quality itself). So, that is not a clue!

What I could do in order that noise is coming from the preaps( is too big for just ignoring it)? I use the BALANCED mic cable only, with no monitor or other sources: THAT 'rec.mp3', was recorded in this conditions, with no other cables, only with a hq headphones monitoring!!!

But the romanian Dealer where I have the guarantee, simply refuse to believe there is a issue/noise, even that they hear it...that's why I asked if it's NORMAL for THIS product to be so like...I am the first user, so can I hold the M-Audio UK liability, I mean I can be helped then by them?

What else I could do? Couse I CAN'T change it or turn it back-even in guarantee, to this Dealer, in order they say is no issue?
PS: Kilo, did u asked the M-Audio friend about that topic? If no, pls ask him about this issue!

thks,A.

[ back to forum ]               [quote]

Message 15/17                 Date: 18-Dec-07  @  11:29 AM   -   RE: MaudioFW410 noise/PREAMPs problems!pls help!th

k

Posts: 12353

Link?:  Link

File?:  No file

ok well it sounds wrong to me... if u used a balnced mic cable and nothing else and record and it still has that noise it is wrong, end of story - what to do now tho, i ask to my friend

ok... he wants to know what OS you use, and what graphic card

___________________________________

I had an idea for a script once. It's basically Jaws except when the guys in the boat are going after Jaws, they look around and there's an even bigger Jaws. The guys have to team up with Jaws to get Bigger Jaws.... I call it... Big Jaws!!!

[ back to forum ]               [quote]

Message 16/17                 Date: 20-Dec-07  @  01:56 PM   -   RE: MaudioFW410 noise/PREAMPs problems!pls help!th

k

Posts: 12353

Link?:  Link

File?:  No file

Hey Anduuu - please reply - what OS do you use, and what graphic card do you use in your pc?

___________________________________

I had an idea for a script once. It's basically Jaws except when the guys in the boat are going after Jaws, they look around and there's an even bigger Jaws. The guys have to team up with Jaws to get Bigger Jaws.... I call it... Big Jaws!!!

[ back to forum ]               [quote]

Message 17/17                 Date: 24-Dec-07  @  04:29 PM   -   RE: MaudioFW410 noise/PREAMPs problems!pls help!thanks

Anduuu

Posts: 8

Link?:  No link

File?:  No file

---Ow, the OS and what....I told you on my initial posts that I use the most XP sp2, with the newest m-audio drivers and tips from m-audio site. Even more...I've got even one pc with xp sp2 clean - configured only for music, and doesn't work.... ow, I said also that I tested the device, ON my Dealer's PC and on my dealer's Mac, "so 2 OSs: XP sp2 and Mac OS", with their newest drivers from m-audio site too.
---What about the Video device....eh I don't believe it matter a bit, couse I have tested the FW410 on my laptop with "Intel video device", on my PC with "ATI device", on my dealer's PC with other video cards,N-Vidia I think, and their MacLaptops, with again another Video device inside them!!!

Conclusion:
...SO, reading the situation above, U see that "doesn't matter a bit what video or OS I use", in order the fw410 was TESTED on ALL of this computer sistems - on several operating sistems and video devices - HEY-even several different computer configuration at all, and... got out the SAME result: this "tinkle"noise/background noise!!!!

well, what is to be done for now?

[ back to forum ]               [quote]