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Subject: RIAA wants you!


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Original Message 1/116                 Date: 26-Jul-03  @  06:01 PM   -   RIAA wants you!

beds

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^ look

* if i remember correctly, in the first three months of this year music sales increased in the uk.



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Message 2/116                 Date: 26-Jul-03  @  08:12 PM   -   RE: RIAA wants you!

cheddar

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so if you dont regularly check the link to see if they list your username, name and IP and then lodge a complaint against the supoena then they automatically can claim guilt and a fine is generated and sent according to the MB of music downloaded

lucky for me i have no fixed IP



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Message 3/116                 Date: 26-Jul-03  @  08:54 PM   -   RE: RIAA wants you!

queasy00

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if they also log the time at which you dLed the song AND if the isp has logs (which it should).. then they can still point it to you.

-j



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Message 4/116                 Date: 27-Jul-03  @  12:42 AM   -   RE: RIAA wants you!

beds

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it's not about downloading it's about letting others download from you.

they're trying to arrest the "service providers"



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Message 5/116                 Date: 27-Jul-03  @  01:06 AM   -   RE: RIAA wants you!

mcc>

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bullshit beds...they're going after anybody they can say has downloaded stuff with a copyright and a lawyer attached to it.

is football season over already?

damn.



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Message 6/116                 Date: 27-Jul-03  @  04:47 AM   -   RE: RIAA wants you!

Pongoid

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Fuck that fat Rosen bitch! If I ever see her in the flesh, I'll spit in her face and kick her in the shin. That fucking sow has no interest whatsoever in protecting artists. Her only interest is in protecting her business clients' profit margins, which grow by selling more, and reducing costs by marketing inferior products, i.e. SHIT music. It's been proven time and again that this stupid pig's crusade is harmful to the music industry, but her shortsightedness and greed supercede any of that capacity to reason. I'll sleep easier when she and others like her are dragged into the streets are shot, while their wealth is distributed to starving musicians they have robbed and fucked over throughout the years.


Ape



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Message 7/116                 Date: 27-Jul-03  @  09:35 AM   -   RE: RIAA wants you!

Steve Roughley

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Yeah. This is getting quite sick! The Music Industry in the UK is getting bad enough. I sincerely hope that this does not catch on over here. Anyone know which artists they are trying to 'protect'? If this is all over Brittany Spears or some other gormless sod I think I will be about ready to cry.

Regards.

Steve.



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Message 8/116                 Date: 27-Jul-03  @  09:36 AM   -   RE: RIAA wants you!

beds

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i don't see they can know if you downloaded something unless you downloaded it from the riaa but what they have been doing is logging the ip addresses of computers sharing a large amount of files. having a non-static ip won't help you either because as the article says your isp is legally obliged to keep logs. whether they are also legally obliged to hand them over to the riaa is the subject of a court case. this is in the US, no idea about the rest of the world.



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Message 9/116                 Date: 27-Jul-03  @  03:13 PM   -   RE: RIAA wants you!

PB

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They supoena the list from your internet service providers.



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Message 10/116                 Date: 27-Jul-03  @  09:07 PM   -   RE: RIAA wants you!

Pongoid

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or just pay Eschelon to run file specific filters.

the RIAA has that kind of loot.



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Message 11/116                 Date: 27-Jul-03  @  09:09 PM   -   RE: RIAA wants you!

influx

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you know, pongoid...

theres one flaw in the whole "market shit music, to make as much as possible"

because...those big labels spend whole ing piles of money to market that shit music! Its sick how much they SPEND in order to make back a few bux.

seems like...damn...just find the real music out there, the good stuff, and dont get so hype on it. Dont require million dollar studios, etc...and dont market it so high, and get FAIR returns, not 1000000000000000000000000000000000%...

see...the music industry is fat and bloated ALL OVER, not just the records. EVERYTHING is over priced. Hell, bro, where do you work again? Only one of the most expensive sound design companies out there! Ever ask what their profit margins are? Not saying I know, but...

its not JUST the record companies. Its all intertwined, and its all bloated and disgusting, 100% across the board

and FUCK the RIAA



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Message 12/116                 Date: 28-Jul-03  @  04:47 AM   -   RE: RIAA wants you!

mcc>

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eventually everything will come down to earth and to those who just keep working at making decent music which people want to hear and won't cost them an arm-and-a-leg.

the separation of music and television will have to occur and of course.....the young powell will do everything he can to keep it a huge monoplistic business...as long as he keeps his job. which will be til september, he says. he can pillage and loot and then make a run for it. it's how the game is played anymore.



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Message 13/116                 Date: 28-Jul-03  @  09:19 AM   -   RE: RIAA wants you!

cheddar

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or maybe the world moves like compass points and the action and direction are at the hands of those who stay on the point

Douglas Adams has a saying that if we find out the answer to L, the U and E, then the while thing be immediately replaced by something more bizarre



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Message 14/116                 Date: 28-Jul-03  @  01:35 PM   -   RE: RIAA wants you!

Jock

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bollocks to the record companies, and bollocks to anyone trying to stop me downloading. Chances are I'll buy the CD to something I've downloaded off the net anyway. Its always nice to have something physical, a CD with an inlay card, something that looks good sitting with other CDs in your collection.

Same with books. Wheres the pleaure of reading a book on your computer screen, when you should be sitting on the chod bin having a shite and reading it.


If the RIAA sends a subpeona to me then there gonna get it back in the post, with a big steaming turd accompanying it.



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Message 15/116                 Date: 28-Jul-03  @  02:02 PM   -   RE: RIAA wants you!

99devils

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Fuck that fat Rosen bitch! If I ever see her in the flesh, I'll spit in her face and kick her in the shin. That fucking sow has no interest whatsoever in protecting artists. Her only interest is in protecting her business clients' profit margins, which grow by selling more, and reducing costs by marketing inferior products, i.e. SHIT music

---------------------------------------------

It always bothers me that they hide behind the moral high ground. "We're protecting the artists!".. Sure, whatever.. They're spending more money prosecuting these people than they're losing! And they're alienating their customers.

YOU CANNOT STOP IT!!!!



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Message 16/116                 Date: 28-Jul-03  @  03:47 PM   -   RE: RIAA wants you!

K

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Why dont we start a campaign?

"SEND A TURD TO HILARY "

musicians and people ww sending in turds in jiffy bags!



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Message 17/116                 Date: 28-Jul-03  @  04:19 PM   -   RE: RIAA wants you!

Jock

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I'm up for that. Is quite easy. If you drop fudge into a freezer bag and leave it in the deep freeze overnight it hardens up. Also, when you pop it in the jiffy it doesnt smell until it starts to thaw out. By then its already out of your hands and winding its way towards its target.



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Message 18/116                 Date: 28-Jul-03  @  04:51 PM   -   RE: RIAA wants you!

beds

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you've done it before haven't you jock?



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Message 19/116                 Date: 28-Jul-03  @  05:17 PM   -   RE: RIAA wants you!

psylichon

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the voice of experience   awesome...



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Message 20/116                 Date: 29-Jul-03  @  08:34 AM   -   RE: RIAA wants you!

Jock

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oh look. a nudey magazine...

*sound of fat bloke running off*



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Message 21/116                 Date: 29-Jul-03  @  05:39 PM   -   RE: RIAA wants you!

RIAA Spokesman

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You are all dead! K Gimme all their IP's



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Message 22/116                 Date: 29-Jul-03  @  05:49 PM   -   RE: RIAA wants you!

discontinued

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come and rape me bich.

i bet you can't even buy half the shit i got here.



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Message 23/116                 Date: 29-Jul-03  @  07:35 PM   -   RE: RIAA wants you!

Influx

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sensoniq, youre about as discrete as dubya and his freedom fries



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Message 24/116                 Date: 29-Jul-03  @  11:50 PM   -   Someone new to hate

Zazza

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Bye bye Hilary....



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Message 25/116                 Date: 02-Aug-03  @  01:07 AM   -   RE: RIAA wants you!

Pongoid

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Influx,
I'm a bit disappointed in you, really, as you of all people here should know the deal with the music industry. You have the most connects of anybody here in it.

"because...those big labels spend whole ing piles of money to market that shit music! Its sick how much they SPEND in order to make back a few bux."

This is utter falicy. Why? Because the major labels in actuality spend nothing on any of it. It's ALL out there as loans to the artists. It's entirely recoupable. If the artist doesn't sell enough records to bring the record companies a FAT profit, then they keep all the money that they've made on sales, PLUS the artists have to pay back all of the money that the record company spent on recording, marketing, legal fees, etc. The list goes on and on. I KNOW you've read the info on this before. Folks here have posted links to articles that some BIG names have written about how that shit really goes down.

It is the fact that this stuff is fairly well known with nothing done to change it for whatever reason that pisses me off to the point of destructiveness. The biggest problem with the entire music industry is that it has NO risk. The majors have NO RISK: it's all just profit to them. They don't give a fuck about artistic nature. They give a fuck about what the accountants and market researchers say is the coming trend, and what the next catchy trick that some unknown pulled in a recording, and the kids will love when they hear.


American Idol is a hit for MILLIONS. Doesn't that tell you something about the fucking lower than shit pathetic state of ignorance and uncaring attitude that the public has been programmed into? I don't understand how the fuck everybody in this place doesn't just wretch on every single TV screen they see showing this show, and spit on every ad for it within spitting distance of them. It's the WORST affront I've ever in all of my years seen to artists and artisans. AND IT'S BLATANT!!!!! It's not funny, it's not a joke. It's sad because it already has made millions of dollars in advertisement, let alone the money that's going to be made on that tubby ass' renditions of somebody else's creativity. It's a message to the public that artisrty doesn't matter. No artist is unique. It's like 'Trading Places' for real. Now imagine how many kids were watching the show when they could have been working on their chops. Imagine how much originality got squashed with the latest ads to but the latest garbage from useless people. How fucking pathetic. And who makes money off of all that shit?

THE


R


I


A


A





I would rob a bank to pay for a contract to have Hillary Rosen's head cut off and immersed in a bucket of pig shit before her brain died, and then have photos circulated to the rest of the majors' execs, marketing wizards, and lawyers of her carcass being fed to more pigs to send them the message that they're next.

Who? Me? Pissed off at Rosen? Nah, just mildly irritated. You wouldn't want to see me when I'm actually pissed off.


Ape



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Message 26/116                 Date: 02-Aug-03  @  03:43 AM     Edit: 03-Aug-03  |  11:32 AM   -   RE: RIAA wants you!

Influx

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sorry P but its you who is mistaken.

its not just the record companies. Gear is over priced, studio time is WAY overpriced, and the list goes on and on

at one point the micro economy that was the entire music industry could support the bloated cash cow that it had become, which is why studios could get away with paying $1000000000000 for a console, and charging 100000000 a day for their services.

times have changed, and the gluttony that was the norm is now backfiring, across the board. The fat pigs at the top are going to go DOWN and theyre gonna kick and scream all the way. Im glad to see it, even though it might affect me as well. I have yet to see a dime from any of this, but thats not even a minute part of why I got into it

What trips me out is that you seem to think that artists "deserve" to get paid for their efforts, but even that was a created situation! The "right" to make money doesnt exist, ya know?

Oh, and...dude...youre telling me record companies dont SPEND money? thats just utter nonsense. Youre disappointed in me...O.K! Sure sounds condescending!



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Message 27/116                 Date: 02-Aug-03  @  09:20 AM   -   RE: RIAA wants you!

Pongoid

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Sure they lay it out on the front end, but it's ALL recoupable. So to say they are spending it, like they might be losing it is totally wrong. Studio time is exspensive, but it's actually the artisits that pay for it if they can't cover the sales, and the reality is that most can't. If the band sells, then they make it back. If the records don't sell, then the artists pay back the major, so how can you say that the record company is 'spending' loads?

That's the whole reason that most music on the market these days sucks. The record companies don't care. Thay don't have to. The overhead is so low for CD duplication that the profit margin is astronomical. No matter what they do, they win. It's a fuckin joke. Sure studio time is exspensive cuz the gear is and so many folks are doing stuff at home in 24/96, so who needs the big studios? If you read enough and practice enough...sure it won't be Abbey Road, but it'll be good enough for broadcast.

At the end of the day...FUCK THE MAJORS cuz they're fucking everybody else.

Ape



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Message 28/116                 Date: 02-Aug-03  @  11:36 AM   -   RE: RIAA wants you!

psylichon

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right on



***bold fun time complete***



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Message 29/116                 Date: 02-Aug-03  @  12:17 PM   -   RE: RIAA wants you!

queasy00

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actually.. influx was logged in so he can edit his post:

are

to

are

should do it.

-j



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Message 30/116                 Date: 02-Aug-03  @  06:39 PM   -   RE: RIAA wants you!

queasy00

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wtf!?
just checked.. oooh.. the html didn't go through.

i meant to say...
oh forget it.

-j



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Message 31/116                 Date: 02-Aug-03  @  06:53 PM   -   RE: RIAA wants you!

PB

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lemme try something



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Message 32/116                 Date: 02-Aug-03  @  06:54 PM   -   RE: RIAA wants you!

PB

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blahblahblah



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Message 33/116                 Date: 03-Aug-03  @  06:29 AM   -   RE: RIAA wants you!

Pongoid

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wow. That bold thing was a neat trick. Wonder how that happened. I hope that a number of things happen, including basically most of hollywood burning to the ground, as long as all of the gear is out of there and in the hands of the the non-greedy. I hope that the majors crumble and things cycle around to the way they used to be, where there were folks whe were making things just to be the best they could be, not making things to be the most saleable they could be. This applies both the music and the tools to associated with it.

Ape



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Message 34/116                 Date: 03-Aug-03  @  11:33 AM   -   RE: RIAA wants you!

Influx

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sorry bout that.

ape..we're in total agreement on everything except that you seem to think its only the record companies doing the screwing.

that part I dont agree with



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Message 35/116                 Date: 03-Aug-03  @  07:00 PM   -   RE: RIAA wants you!

Pongoid

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Dude, come on. You think I DON'T know that it isn't just the record companies doing the screwing? I'm not gonna go into any sob stories, so I'll keep it brief when I say I've been fucked over, or had others in my life and career that tried to fuck me over more times than I can count; and my math is pretty good. In this case, though, Rosen and the rest of her toilet dwellers take the cake/urinal-mint. They suck ass, and it isn't to help studios, or club owners, or independent record distributors, or musicians, or graphic artists, or video artists, or anybody else except their investors, who already have more money than they could ever use, and are not going to do anything but hoard it and be greedy ass fuck-head pieces of shit that help push the world further into the status of non-viable human-waste pile.

They don't care, so I say make them care. Take their money away, and give it to starving people all over the world, and show them the films of hungry children eating their profits, getting medicine, and learning to read and write, while the greedy fucks have ice-picks shoved under their knee-caps, bamboo spikes slowy pushed under their fingernails, and the odd electrical shock to keep them awake and aware.

grr.


Ape



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Message 36/116                 Date: 03-Aug-03  @  09:02 PM   -   RE: RIAA wants you!

cheddar

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dont forget kids if we even look like we are taking anything back or finding ways to cut out the middle (%) men they will spend very heavily, money, legislation, lives. It does not matter it cannot be allowed to happen - unless they have something even more constraining to replace it



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Message 37/116                 Date: 04-Aug-03  @  08:11 PM     Edit: 04-Aug-03  |  08:14 PM   -   RE: RIAA wants you!

Mick

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All of this RIAA stuff means little to anyone who appreciates good music because nothing the majors have put out in recent memory qualifies, IMO, as good music. As for the artists, there is enough info out there and its been there long enough for me to not feel bad about someone who still believes in the illusion of "getting signed". Those days have been over for more than twenty years. If an "artist" really cares about their music, their audience, their integrity, AND their income, they will stay independent. If they simply want to be a "rock star" that's their problem and I have little sympathy.

If there is any criticism I can level at file sharing its when people download music made by independents and then not purchasing a CD if they like what they hear. Call me a hypocrite but if someone (Lars Inc.) is on a major label, fuckem because they a part of the problem with the music industry. If its an independent artist (Aimee Mann) having their work go unremunerated then I take exception. My examples above are, I believe, very good examples of two parties arguing the same point and only one having any ground to stand on.

Good or bad music, it works. If their music sucks no one is out major bucks. The artist doesn't owe a record company their house and perhaps goes back to perfect their chosen craft or back to their day job and the potential CD buyer gets to try out the music by downloading for free before buying a $16.00 coaster. If the artist's music is of some merit then the artist keeps the money in their pocket instead of paying to keep the record company's studio friends in catered food and SSL desks while the CD buyer gets quality work at a reasonable price (even if it is the "going rate" the buyer can feel good about being a direct patron to the artist - supporting the release of the artist's next CD).


http://www.cnn.com/2001/WorldBeat/05/14/ani.difranco/


http://u.sbsun.com/Stories/0,1413,216~24307~1526655,00.html



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Message 38/116                 Date: 04-Aug-03  @  08:31 PM   -   RE: RIAA wants you!

Influx

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I get annoyed by the Ani thing...one of my ex's dragged me to a show, and the merch was still like $25 for a shitty shirt, CDs were $21 or so...

so, because you get to go indy you still charge the inflated commercial rates?



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Message 39/116                 Date: 04-Aug-03  @  08:38 PM     Edit: 04-Aug-03  |  08:39 PM   -   RE: RIAA wants you!

Mick

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I have to wonder how inflated they really are due to such things as not being able to purchase in bulk and things like that. Metallica can order a ginormous amount of swag at a quantity discount. Regardless, I would rather give the money to an independent.



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Message 40/116                 Date: 04-Aug-03  @  09:16 PM   -   RE: RIAA wants you!

Influx

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right but if someones hiding behind that, using it for profiteering? Not sayin thats whats going on, but...all these people that talk about wanted to break away from the model, but then follow the same route, but only claim to be diverging?

bro...shirts are like $5-$7 MAX each at low levels...I worked for a printer for 5 years.



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Message 41/116                 Date: 04-Aug-03  @  10:06 PM     Edit: 04-Aug-03  |  10:28 PM   -   RE: RIAA wants you!

Mick

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Does that include the design, screens, printing, packing, shipping & storage? Besides, there are other things to consider such as the cost of touring that isn't covered by ticket sales. The profit derived from the shirts isn't just about the cost of the shirts - it all goes into the pool. Lodging at livable accommodations is probably about $75.00 per night for everyone on the tour. Sure you can find cheaper accommodations but I don't see the need for people to stay at a flea bag crack motel for months on end.

Nor do I see the need for people who have paid their fair dues to be crammed into a minivan for hours on end. That doesn't mean I think they need a huge tour bus but an RV still isn't cheap to rent or to purchase and maintain. After a certain number of years and at a certain age, damn. Show a little love. After a certain point in an artists career they deserve a little more.

Another thing to consider is that these people must provide their own insurance and retirement. The only reason I have decent insurance and any type of retirement is because of my union and I've seen how much it cost when I didn't get enough gigs to cover my days for eligibility - I had to lose it. For that matter union dues aren't cheap nor are the benefits that have to be paid for any sidepeople if they are union and playing in union halls.

Just because someone chooses to be an artist doesn't make them immune to the same needs as everyone one else and if they are to make a living at it there are real world issues that must be addressed. The "suffering artist" thing is as much an overly romanticized illusion as the "rock star" thing.

Suffering for "art" is for amateurs and when your "art" costs $15.00 for the general public to experience it becomes, for better or worse, business. When its time to hit the road and make a living as a performer money must change hands. If one isn't savvy enough to insure enough money is changing hands to make a reasonable profit that takes business concerns and one's future into consideration one won't be performing anywhere other than one's garage, living room, or porch after too long.

I also don't really have a problem with an artist setting their prices at a level that the market will bear because they are getting the money not a huge corporation whose experience in the music amounts to supplying gin and vodka to clubs. If an audience feels the price is unfair or that the gains are put to ill use then they won't support the artist.

In the end it is no longer about going to see a show it is, literally, about supporting the artist. That doesn't mean being the loudest one at the show's encore. That means that, you, the concert goer are buying them their house. You are paying for their kids to be raised outside of poverty. You are paying for their family's food and clothing, for their kids to spend summer at the grandparent's, their kids' college tuition. You're paying them to invest the money that you give them wisely so they can be successful enough to keep you entertained for as long as they wish and for as long as there is an audience for them. THAT is what supporting an independent artist is about.



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Message 42/116                 Date: 04-Aug-03  @  10:24 PM   -   RE: RIAA wants you!

errata

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I think with artists like Ani it's the desire to live like a rock star but work as an independent.

We have this ugly notion in our culture that success is measured in money. You and I wouldn't know Ani's name (well, my girlfriends a recovering lesbian, feminist, alterna-chick.. so maybe I would) if it wasn't for her success. And, "Why shouldn't she live by the same standard as other artists appearing on rolling stone?"

It's obscene that these artist's rattle on about the inequities of the industry, andthen work and play by it's rules. One sees the devil and Miss DeFranco in a dark room glaring at each other over a table... the devil says, "You and I are ONE, ANI! You sing the song of independence, but you suck from the tit of MY machine!"

OK, that's a little dramatic, but it's true. And here we rag on about the freedom of underground parties and how disconnected form the industry it all is... but I've never EVER met a promoter that could afford to keep promoting who was in it for the scene and not the money. And about 7 of 10 shows I've had to argue about, and fight for the money I was promised at a gig! So there you go!

There are a lot of truely disengaged scenes of merit out there... but they are mostly populated by those who've chosen to remove themselves COMPLETELY, or those who have day jobs!

Pongoid's friends at AMF come to mind as an example of how it COULD be done, if we'd all just get over ourselves... and our greed/complacency!

e



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Message 43/116                 Date: 04-Aug-03  @  11:24 PM   -   RE: RIAA wants you!

Influx

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sorry mick but youre comin from the standpoint that artists deserve to make a living solely off their art, whatever format it is presented in, and I say bullshit

at the same time, Im not saying they should starve either, and since there is a viable market, there's no reason not to take part in it, but...no..dude...youre not gonna convince me that a $25 t-shirt (and, actually..the number I quoted was a bit HIGH, to factor in shipping, artwork and layout, etc) or a $7 sticker, or a $21 CD is justifiable.

and WHO THE FUCK IS GOING TO SUPPORT ME, then? eh? the argument youre presenting is as tho Im supposed to send Ani's kids to college?

wtf is that shit, man?

fact is, expectations are too high. ANYONE can fucking live off say $40k a year, actually way less really, if they just trim the fat a bit. Yes, concerts are expensive...

honestly, man...youre surprising me...you seem so anti-commercialism (simply for its own sake) most of the time, and yet, simply because someone tags themselves as independent, and then insists on operating at the same level as the norm, you defend them?

fuck..what was this thread about anyway? oh..the RIAA.

fact is, the whole fucking thing is a bloated bullshit scam. A paradigm was set when recorded music first became a commodity, and its gone straight down hill ever since.

I agree, an artist should be able to market their wares, no doubt, but if youre gonna claim to be bucking the system then DO IT. Charge LESS for things. Trim the fat, drastically if necessary. Got 2 cars? sell one. Got 15 keyboards? sell TEN. Booking time on an SSL? Find a cheaper studio.

its not that hard



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Message 44/116                 Date: 04-Aug-03  @  11:32 PM   -   RE: RIAA wants you!

PB

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well... the second the shirt start costing more than what the product should be about (the music/the cd) is the second it steps across the border. I'm not gonna buy a cd if its 21 bucks! Because the artist is indie they should take advantage that the rec companies aren't taking their money and make music more accessable.



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Message 45/116                 Date: 04-Aug-03  @  11:36 PM   -   RE: RIAA wants you!

Influx

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"In the end it is no longer about going to see a show it is, literally, about supporting the artist. That doesn't mean being the loudest one at the show's encore. That means that, you, the concert goer are buying them their house. You are paying for their kids to be raised outside of poverty. You are paying for their family's food and clothing, for their kids to spend summer at the grandparent's, their kids' college tuition. You're paying them to invest the money that you give them wisely so they can be successful enough to keep you entertained for as long as they wish and for as long as there is an audience for them. THAT is what supporting an independent artist is about. "

Mick, man..Im sorry but I just dont agree with this.

what if they feel that they need to live in a 10br 3500sf compound? drive BMW instead of hondas? send their kids to harvard instead of a state school?

Im supposed to pay for that because I dig their tunes? bulllllshit



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Message 46/116                 Date: 05-Aug-03  @  04:50 AM   -   RE: RIAA wants you!

Mick

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"If an audience feels the price is unfair or that the gains are put to ill use then they won't support the artist."

I hate having to repeat myself.  

I don't want to sound condescending but maybe its something that one learns with age. That $40,000 a year needs to be profit and it needs to be consistant. Freelancing means that one year you may make 80,000 - 100,000 or more one year then be lucky to clear 10,000 the next year or the following one. THAT'S the reality. If you work for someone else, if you have never freelanced and had to (or like a fool never bothered to) look into purchasing your own insurance plan (a decent one that includes comprehensive preventative health care) then you don't know what's up. When you're 70, the SSA is bankrupt, you never could afford a 401k (or whatever), and you health is failing because you could never afford decent insurance and now no one will touch you is the wrong time to figure it out. Think beyond the immediate or grow old and die like a stray dog. I've watched someone close to me die a horrible, humiliating, death for want of decent preventative health care so I've seen it first hand.



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Message 47/116                 Date: 05-Aug-03  @  05:38 AM   -   RE: RIAA wants you!

Influx

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and this has what to do with what?

Im fucking self employed dude. have been for 5 years now.

yes, you do sound condescending;)

$40k a year PROFIT?!?!?1 are you fucking KIDDING ME?!?!?!

man...mick...you live on a different planet. sucks something bad happened to someone you know but bad things happen to millions of people every single day, and the majority of it has to do with profiteering



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Message 48/116                 Date: 05-Aug-03  @  06:22 AM   -   RE: RIAA wants you!

psylichon

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How much does it cost to live healthily, exactly?



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Message 49/116                 Date: 05-Aug-03  @  07:38 AM   -   RE: RIAA wants you!

errata

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so, Mick... it's "Grow the hell up, and stop being so idealistic!" eh?

Funny, here we were bashing on the proftieering, greed and ME ME ME bullsh+t and you come riding in telling us to grow up!

I'm sorry this bad thing happened to your friend. Really. It's not ok that people have to die that way.

But your analogy is a bit like the guy who learns to punch first 'cause he got jumped once in the street. Lives the rest of his life worried about it happening again. It's smart, sure... but it sure is supid too. (Not that I'm calling you stupid, that's not my point!)

A Tibetan teacher said:
The problem with people in the west is they're so busy worrying about what might happen that they miss what's happening!

I think that's smarter, personaly!

e



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Message 50/116                 Date: 05-Aug-03  @  08:08 AM   -   RE: RIAA wants you!

Influx

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"suffering from cold youre so afraid you might get burned"



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Message 51/116                 Date: 05-Aug-03  @  11:40 AM   -   RE: RIAA wants you!

beds

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there be pirates! ^



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Message 52/116                 Date: 05-Aug-03  @  06:22 PM   -   RE: RIAA wants you!

pict

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Just have lots of kids and raise them with love if you do a good job you won't have to worry about a pension.



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Message 53/116                 Date: 05-Aug-03  @  07:35 PM   -   RE: RIAA wants you!

cheddar

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isn't there a law about underage working p, P



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Message 54/116                 Date: 05-Aug-03  @  09:25 PM   -   RE: RIAA wants you!

Mick

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In order to "make" 40,000 a year to pay for one's living expenses one must achieve this through profits from one's business. In other words, a touring act must make $40,000 above and beyond the cost of touring and recording. Am I stupid here. WTF is so difficult to understand? Sorry kids but these are very simple ideas and its going to be a rude awakening when, at the age of 50 or so, you realize that you can't afford to pay a doctor to stick a finger up your ass on a regular basis much less pay for the cancer treatment after its discovered too late.

"Grow the hell up, and stop being so idealistic!"

Whatever. This has become a pointless debate for me.



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Message 55/116                 Date: 05-Aug-03  @  09:47 PM   -   RE: RIAA wants you!

psylichon

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I think influx was saying 40,000 a year gross pay should be sufficient, given the vast majority of people in the world don't make even this. I agree.

psy



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Message 56/116                 Date: 05-Aug-03  @  10:10 PM   -   RE: RIAA wants you!

influx

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yes.

and no one told you to grow up, Mick. It seemed as though that was what you were saying



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Message 57/116                 Date: 05-Aug-03  @  10:35 PM   -   RE: RIAA wants you!

errata

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hey, whoa... right! i wasn't telling anyone to grow up! That's what i heard you saying... I suspect you know that... I put it in quotes...

I totaly get the point.. i just don't agree. I think that a lot of that is what makes the mess... but then, I'm not a capitalist! Not sure why you'd get angry just because we don't see eye to eye.

it's the Ant and the Grasshoper, isn't it? I suppose, once you've hoarded all your nuts you'll be damned if your taxes will pay for my healthcare needs as well.

We have a fundamental disgreement here of how things SHOULD be. So what?

That all said, I totaly understand and agree with your point about the money. $40,000 after costs... absolutely, reasonable, exceptable! Because as a few of us have said, there's nothing wrong with selling what you do to make a living... and if I have a day job, my tracks won't go where I want them... won't be what i want them to be.

The point here, is (I think) that folks like Ani are maing more than that magic number, now aren't they? Significantly more... and there's the rub... greed is ugly, but it's even uglier when it's couched in something altruistic.

e



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Message 58/116                 Date: 06-Aug-03  @  12:08 AM   -   RE: RIAA wants you!

pict

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Enron all those unfortunate people who invested in the idea of future security learnt the hard way that there is no such thing as security.If I live to be so old that my health starts failing I'd rather put my faith in some able bodied adults who care deeply for me looking after me than into an insurance company that would prefer that I died with no cost to them.



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Message 59/116                 Date: 06-Aug-03  @  12:44 AM   -   RE: RIAA wants you!

cheddar

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ignoring what you need you can justify any amount based on future earnings, how many of these big k puppies will be churning that regular..., so they need more NOW dammit. And then if I employ some market guy I can more than cover his costs with extra profits, then I can have a stylist who makes sure I stay top of the earners - see where this goes

Rules of economics 1: there is no enough

I was at a consolodated gig and on the 'pass the mic session' someone complained that the t shirts were 10 pounds, so the lead singer said, make them a fiver for the night.

An Mick "Market will bare" hahahahahahaha



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Message 60/116                 Date: 06-Aug-03  @  01:22 AM   -   RE: RIAA wants you!

influx

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heh. consolidated. havent heard that shit in a long time



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Message 61/116                 Date: 06-Aug-03  @  04:09 AM   -   RE: RIAA wants you!

Mick

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"I think influx was saying 40,000 a year gross pay should be sufficient"

$40,000 wouldn't even cover the cost of a year's touring. $40,000 net I might agree with but I'm curious as to the number of people on this site who have children and what they think of raising a family on $40,000. God forbid someone's child is born needing lifelong medical attention beyond the norm.



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Message 62/116                 Date: 06-Aug-03  @  04:40 AM   -   RE: RIAA wants you!

nye bevan

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that's what taxes are for.



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Message 63/116                 Date: 06-Aug-03  @  02:45 PM   -   RE: RIAA wants you!

99devils

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Influx said:

I get annoyed by the Ani thing...one of my ex's dragged me to a show, and the merch was still like $25 for a shitty shirt, CDs were $21 or so...

---------------------------------------------

I have to weigh in on this a little bit. Being from Buffalo, I hear a lot about Ani and her comings and goings. What I can say is that she pumps a ton of money back into the community. She still lives here, in her home town. She runs her business out of Buffalo. She just shelled out like $3 million or something like that to buy and restore a landmark church that was crumbling to the ground, and our city council was too fucking stupid to figure out how to save it. They literally had the street closed on the churches block for years because the were afraid the steeple was going to fucking fall off the church. She's setting up all her companies in that building, creating jobs in the city, and paying taxes in a place that's lost like 40% of its population over the last 10 years.

So she isn't hiding behind anything. Of course she plays the game.. What artist doesn't? Once you make the decision you're going to live off it you have no choice. Like Mick said, you have realities you need to think about - medical expenses, retirement, supporting a family, etc.. It's nice to know that she gives it back when she knows she has a surplus...

As opposed to Johnny Rzeznik of the Goo Goo Dolls who took his money and split to LA, or some of these rappers who have one hit song and buy a fucking grage full of Bentleys.

-Craig

PS - sometimes she's even sighted at people's gigs or in various bars downtown..



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Message 64/116                 Date: 06-Aug-03  @  05:34 PM   -   RE: RIAA wants you!

errata

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you know, it's not fair to single Ani out on this shit! She is as good as it gets... but the point of the discussion is not Ani, as i read it, it's about indie's claiming to be honest and outside of the bullshit... when they aren't...

It is a bit hypocritical to sing songs about a departure from the machine, how ugly the shit is, and then to dig right in with everyone else... that said i do not feel entitled in any way to judge anybody and it's a mistake that it got to bashing any individual!

I'm just saying if you don't like the machine, if it makes you sick... don't feed it. Period

Hey Mick, I'm not pissing on you... didn't mean to come off that way. I'm a grown up, with children... I live on right around $40,000 and frankly when compared with the rest of the earth, that's obscene! It's fuckin' sick that I make twice the earth's monthly wage everyday! That's not OK... but our culture REQUIRES it to some degree... I don't want my children to be homeless and shit on by a twisted society that puts greed before compassion. So I'm a part of that shit too. But I don't NEED more than that, and therefore I don't take it. I could.

But this ain't about me... just answering your call for someone to speak up who has more than themselves to consider. I'd feel like a shitty father if I taught my children otherwise.

e



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Message 65/116                 Date: 06-Aug-03  @  05:48 PM   -   RE: RIAA wants you!

errata

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look at bands like Yo La Tengo for how we could be doing it!

e



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Message 66/116                 Date: 06-Aug-03  @  08:44 PM   -   RE: RIAA wants you!

influx

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craig, thats really cool to hear about, but that doesnt justify charging the same ludicrous amounts as the supposedly mainstream acts and their promoters do.

but as errata said...Im not attacking ADF. It was just an example. This kind of shit happens all the time.

altho..people could just not buy the damn shirts, huh? 



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Message 67/116                 Date: 07-Aug-03  @  12:37 PM   -   RE: RIAA wants you!

cheddar

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Just the market bearing

market hahahaha

whats the point again?



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Message 68/116                 Date: 07-Aug-03  @  02:05 PM   -   RE: RIAA wants you!

99devils

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Exactly, people could just not buy the shirts..

I can see how easy it is to get caught up in it though.. One minute it's like my band - broke, broke, broke. So broke there's no way we could even think about sustaining ourselves. So you charge whatever the max is you can get so you can pay your bills. Then somewhere along the line you realize, "hey I'm fucking loaded".. At least Ani gives it back to where she came from.

I know it wasn't an Ani diss specifically but I'm sure she's not the only one who does this, and I'm sure there are many who do just feed the machine.

If that matters to you you should only support the artists who have similar beliefs. That's part of the reason why I'm such a huge KMFDM fan - there's a measure of musical integrity that's missing in most bands today.

To steer this back on topic, I saw in Rolling Stone that the RIAA sued four college kids who built MP3 search engines for like $900 million apiece. They wound up settling for $9-12k, but basically they took these kids' college tuition savings.

I swear if I didn't love music so much I'd never buy another fucking CD.

Someone should sue the RIAA on the basis that shutting down things like Napster and MP3 searches illegally re-enforces the virtual monopoly their combined constituents hold over independent artists like ourselves.. In effect forcing artists to go through the system for distribution. It's anti-competetive.

-Craig



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Message 69/116                 Date: 07-Aug-03  @  10:51 PM   -   RE: RIAA wants you!

Mick

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The RIAA must be stopped.

Every real musician dies destitute but not every destitute musician really LIVES!!!!

"So if ah rrrisk me neck fer yoo do ah get ta kill kill the music industrree execs?"

"Aye, ya get to kill the music industry execs."

"Excellent!"



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Message 70/116                 Date: 07-Aug-03  @  11:30 PM   -   RE: RIAA wants you!

pict

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Aye those record company executives are nearly as bad as the English.
*ducks hail of arrows,bends over,lifts kilt,shakes arse at the filthy sasannaich*:P



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Message 71/116                 Date: 07-Aug-03  @  11:49 PM   -   RE: RIAA wants you!

influx

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well, we're in agreement about that. the RIAA reminds me of our govt in general. they claim to be protecting US, but what theyre protecting is their own interest, "US" be damned!



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Message 72/116                 Date: 08-Aug-03  @  09:48 PM   -   RE: RIAA wants you!

influx

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due to a recent spat with an omniscient, omnipotent being, I came to the realization that my stance on the "ani" thing has been misinterpreted.

not that it matters in the slightest, but Id like to make it clear that I am in no way against artists making money. AT ALL. Those who have accused me of this are idiots. period.

My "beef" is with "independent" artists who continually spout off about being independent, and yet follow the exact same model as those they claim to be rallying against.

THIS is where the $25 T-Shirt comes in. The kind of profit margin seen on some of these things is ludicrous. I dont remember what was paid to get into the ADF show I went to, but I dont remember it being too high, but it wasnt all that low either.

but...mick..you get so pissy about all this, and yet...you have a HUGE rig, last I saw, with how many keyboards, etc? That is your own personal business, mind you, but the minute you start thinking that is a necessity and that "the audience" should finance you is when it gets ridiculous. Same thing goes for any band...I mean...there are ways to cut costs, and there are ways to reduce the amount of required income and if someone isnt looking into these possibilities, then in my mind their expectations of income are a sketchy.

but there isnt any real reason that a musician, singer, whatever, shouldnt be similiar to a carpenter, plumber, etc. They provide a service, however intangible sometimes, and definitely deserve to get paid.

but..its STILL ludicrous to EXPECT this! no matter what anyone says, talent is a gift and nothing more. All that work to get to that level of proficiency does not automatically equal reward! Yes, maybe it "should" be different. I wont argue against that.

The comment about paying for someones house, etc, and sending their kids to college? Im sorry but wtf is that shit? NONSENSE.

anyway...off topic yet again, but this got brought up by someone else and I was accused of many things which I am not



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Message 73/116                 Date: 09-Aug-03  @  01:46 AM   -   RE: RIAA wants you!

Mick

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Ah, but that huge rig wasn't financed by any concert going audience. It was financed by Hollywood!!!



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Message 74/116                 Date: 09-Aug-03  @  03:10 AM   -   RE: RIAA wants you!

influx

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no..I know, AND its already paid for...

but what Im saying..hmmm

summation:

modern income expectations are often way too high, including those of "artists"

to expect the plebians to support an exorbitant income expectation is ludicrous. I for one wont go for it, nor would I ask it.

better?



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Message 75/116                 Date: 09-Aug-03  @  08:10 AM   -   RE: RIAA wants you!

Mick

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Just takin the piss Dave. Really, I have absolutly no illusions about having been self indulgent with regard to my gear over the past few years. It was an opportunity I simply decided to take because it was there. Its not however, because my income was high but because I kept my expenses low. I've mentioned this before so I won't bore anyone. I am in fact a good example of the point that thas been made about how much people need to live on. I won't mention any specific figure but I will say that I haven't hit $40,000 yet.

My statement about fans paying for an artist's home, etc. is simply a recognition of a defacto relationship.



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Message 76/116                 Date: 09-Aug-03  @  11:05 AM   -   RE: RIAA wants you!

influx

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well, we are in agreement as long as the artist agrees to forego the rockstar gluttony.



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Message 77/116                 Date: 09-Aug-03  @  03:00 PM   -   RE: RIAA wants you!

Mick

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Suddenly I have this picture of Ani, sitting at a long wooden table in a large torch lit hall surrounded by the Lilith Fair lineup, weilding a mutton chop in one hand and an overflowing goblet in the other while espousing the virtues of 25 dollar bear skins emblazoned with her name.  



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Message 78/116                 Date: 09-Aug-03  @  03:17 PM   -   RE: RIAA wants you!

d

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Well I don't think it's up to some artist's fans to buy him/her a home. They pay their money, they get a concert performance or a shirt or a cd or whatever. Should said artist be able to balance his/her checkbook and discover there's enough there for a house, fine. Should they blow it all on coke and whores and end up living in a cardboard box and being profiled on VH1 Behind the Music, that's a shame but also fine. I don't see where it's my job to tell them how to live and spend any cash they've made off me anymore than if they were a fry cook at a waffle house. "These sure are some good waffles, sir. Now you save up really good and you can send your kids to state college." heh heh.



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Message 79/116                 Date: 09-Aug-03  @  06:12 PM     Edit: 09-Aug-03  |  06:15 PM   -   RE: RIAA wants you!

Mick

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>



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Message 80/116                 Date: 09-Aug-03  @  06:13 PM     Edit: 09-Aug-03  |  06:21 PM   -   RE: RIAA wants you!

Mick

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'>

-



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Message 81/116                 Date: 09-Aug-03  @  06:15 PM     Edit: 09-Aug-03  |  06:41 PM   -   RE: RIAA wants you!

Mick

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d, that's the way it works, though, for an independent artists there is a direct relationship, there's not Waffle House Inc. serving as the middleman and cutting checks. Sure the guy at waffle house will get fired if he doesn't make batches upon batches of Waffle House waffles to the satisfaction of the customer but there is always Huddle House. Artists don't have that kind of anonominity and the fact of the matter is Waffleman isn't doing anything extraordinary.

It isn't "your job" but choosing to support an artist through going to shows, buying CDs, t-shirts, etc., is in fact "telling" them that the job they are doing, entertaining you through their art, has met your approval. You are "telling" them how to do their job and how to live their life. You are saying, "I like your art enough to buy it, keep making art.", "I like your performance enough to buy a ticket, keep performing." If they do something that displeases you, lets say you discover that they are a shareholder in a thirdworld sweatshop, and you stop buying their art and going to their performances then you are saying, "I don't approve of what you've done, I'm not buying your art or seeing your performances anymore." In this instance you are "telling" them how to live.

I guess what I'm getting at is that artists are, and should be, appreciated for their unique ability to do something that few people have the talent and drive to do. If enough people are appreciative then they can make a viable living from their art.

It should go without saying that independent artists tend to have values that differ from those who choose to pursue "the deal". As such there is more expected of them and, if they deliver, they distinguish themselves even more. A talented person who brings joy to others through their ability to create (again, a unique talent) AND displays a level of integrity that is also unique among their peers and the public in general is deserving of the support of their fans. That support is shown through the exchange of cash and that cash is what the artists will be using to buy their house, put their kids through college, take a vacation, etc..

I want to see the artists I like come to town and put on a show. I want them to be able to afford that. I want the artists that I like to be able to go home after tour and take the time they need to write, record and prepare for the next tour. If they can't do that then I don't get to see them again, I don't get to hear their music anymore and there will be more opportunity for shitty music to fill the void in the bins and on the air.

Do they have a "better" house than I? Well lets see. I don't risk my money on touring. I don't have anyone on payroll (i.e., I'm not directly responsible for someone else's livelihood). I don't spend months on the road dealing with fans graciously, day in and day out, regardless of having had a shitty day or not. Have you ever been at dinner with one of these people and had their fans interrupt for an autograph? Anyone who can graciously deal with that on a daily basis deserves a little extra. Perhaps they have earned a "better" house because they have taken risks and put themselves in a position that I have no desire to. Does it make them a "better" person than I? Of course not. They have given up a part of their life, sacrificed something for their art, so they deserve bonus points. After having seen what some of these people deal with I can't begrudge them a little extra, especially if they put it to good use.

Before anyone bags on me for deifying these people, let me first tell you I don't. Let me also say that, unless you have been there with these people and seen first hand what they have to deal with don't go off on some theoretical impression of the way you think things are based upon People Magazine or winning tickets from your local radio station to hang out backstage one night with the headliner. Until you have spent some time with someone who has acquired a level of celebrity don't go there. I also realize that some of these people eat it up BUT not all of them do and not all of them understand the reality of that possibility going in. In the end they are "just like everybody else" the difference is that they have to deal with things that not "everybody else" does, or has the ability to. Again, they get bonus points because all the while they are doing this they are keeping me entertained and sometimes even moved. I want them to be as happy as they make me sometimes. Its only fair.

One question that may clear up a lot of misunderstanding about people's position on such matter is this: "Do you think an chemical engineer should make more money than the guy at Waffle House?"



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Message 82/116                 Date: 09-Aug-03  @  07:00 PM   -   RE: RIAA wants you!

influx

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chemical engineers should be eradicated



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Message 83/116                 Date: 09-Aug-03  @  07:12 PM   -   RE: RIAA wants you!

Mick

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Okay, "acoustic engineer". Engineer is the operative word here. Pick one you respect.



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Message 84/116                 Date: 09-Aug-03  @  07:51 PM   -   RE: RIAA wants you!

influx

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but Mick the whole point is that in order to break away from the standard modes, you have to break away!

choosing life as an artist is in and of itself a risk because there are NO guarantees whatsoever. It would be truly wonderful if our system recognized art at the lower levels and encouraged and even subsidized it, but it doesnt, so making that choice is making the choice to struggle. And certain people amongst us clearly believe that they are OWED something, and thats just bullshit

and yes, a recording engineer is justified in earning a higher income because his skills are far more elaborate. flipping waffles is not a high-skilled job (but then, getting paid $6 an hour, which is NOT enough to live on, is not cool)

Im not a socialist, or an anti-capitalist in ANY way shape or form. I hate greed and gluttony though, and the music industry is rife with such, and the model is so thoroughly ingrained in our minds that even those who think they are bucking the system end up directly following that model!



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Message 85/116                 Date: 09-Aug-03  @  07:56 PM   -   RE: RIAA wants you!

d

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the struggle of class against class is a "what" struggle? a "what" struggle? Yes, Karl.

call me a nitwit, but I really don't think "independant recording artists" run into the same privacy issues when they're out and about as say "Ben and Jen".

y'know, sometimes talented people can be complete fUckwits. you wouldn't want to encourage people to live or treat other people like Van Gogh did -- hell, you wouldn't even wanna be around the guy -- but he sure could paint.

honestly though, I don't see my relationship to "Artist" as being all that different from my relationship to waffleguy. payment for services rendered. if I like the waffles, I might go back there and eat again. if I like the CD, I might buy the next one. if I like the concert, I might pony up come next tour. once the cash is in someone else's hands, though, it's theirs and not mine, and my say in what happens to it next is, oh like, nonexistant.



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Message 86/116                 Date: 09-Aug-03  @  08:04 PM   -   RE: RIAA wants you!

influx

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k, wait...does it sound like Im tryin to say what someone should do with their money?

Im not, at all.



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Message 87/116                 Date: 09-Aug-03  @  08:12 PM   -   RE: RIAA wants you!

d

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we were typing at the same time



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Message 88/116                 Date: 09-Aug-03  @  08:26 PM   -   RE: RIAA wants you!

influx

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well quit that!



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Message 89/116                 Date: 09-Aug-03  @  08:55 PM   -   RE: RIAA wants you!

Mick

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"my say in what happens to it next is, oh like, nonexistant."

No, you can't call them on the phone and say, "You bastard, stop doing what your doing straight away or I'll get on the bus, hunt you down, and have at you in an unsavory way. Nee, I say.", and expect them to do anything other than call the cops and have you put away for the threat of unsavoryness and saying nee at will to people.

But, spending you money on an artist's work is a tacit agreement between you and the artist. The agreement is that you will support the artist, monetarily (which in turn supports their chosen lifestyle), if they continue to meet your approval, i.e., make art that you like and live their life in a manner that you are willing to support through your patronage. The Dixie Chicks just dealt with this when they expressed their opposition to the war. Their redneck fans said, "Fuck you we won't buy your CD or go see your show". In this case it wasn't because the fans didn't like their music anymore, it was because of the fans' disapproval of the way they chose to live their lives at that particular moment. The result of their fans' decision to boycott directly effected their (inflated) income. This same priniple applies to artists at any level, although, more so at the lower levels where there is not the same kind of financial pad.

As far as an artist feeling that they are "owed" something, that falls under the category of unacceptable and unsupportable behavior. The artists who don't feel this way are the ones whose fans tend to feel the artist actually is owed something. Especially artists whose income does reach a certain point where they feel they owe something back and contribute to their communities. That's what the term "owing something back" means - its literal and many artists take it thus. See the relationship? The irony?



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Message 90/116                 Date: 09-Aug-03  @  10:28 PM   -   RE: RIAA wants you!

influx

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I would LOVE to be able to give something back...maybe build some housing for folks who just cant get a solid foundation, etc...

but to me, inflated profits are not the way to do this.

taking from someone to give to someone else..well...just doesnt sit right with me.

and Im just talkin about your average working shmuck.



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Message 91/116                 Date: 10-Aug-03  @  06:29 AM   -   RE: RIAA wants you!

Mick

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Its not "taking" if its freely given, especially in the context that I've outlined (for want of a better word at 1:30am). If anyone quotes Hall & Oats, even in jest - you're fired.



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Message 92/116                 Date: 10-Aug-03  @  02:53 PM   -   RE: RIAA wants you!

d

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mick, you're a rich girl and you've gone too far  



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Message 93/116                 Date: 10-Aug-03  @  05:17 PM   -   RE: RIAA wants you!

Mick

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Fired. Go away or I shall taunt you a second time.



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Message 94/116                 Date: 10-Aug-03  @  07:35 PM   -   RE: RIAA wants you!

influx

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mick, come on man! Some kid goes to a gig, and is suffering from the "I have to announce the fact that I like this band" syndrome, and they pull the 500% profit thing on him?

blech. ptooey. thats not really "given freely" altho it isnt straight up coercion either



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Message 95/116                 Date: 11-Aug-03  @  05:34 PM   -   RE: RIAA wants you!

beds

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^ more news



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Message 96/116                 Date: 12-Aug-03  @  09:44 PM   -   RE: RIAA wants you!

99devils

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Influx, worrying about how you will correct the combined stupidity of the world is an exercise in futility.. If you think you can change that, you probably believe that if you put a little hat on a snowball, it can last a long time in hell.



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Message 97/116                 Date: 12-Aug-03  @  09:51 PM   -   RE: RIAA wants you!

Influx

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and whats wrong with futility?

;)



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Message 98/116                 Date: 12-Aug-03  @  10:29 PM   -   RE: RIAA wants you!

pict

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Like Zappa said "The most plentiful thing in the universe isn't hydrogen,it's stupidity"



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Message 99/116                 Date: 12-Aug-03  @  10:46 PM   -   RE: RIAA wants you!

psylichon

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My fav... and I am not sure who said it... "It's a shame ignorance isn't truly bliss, because if it was, it would be illegal"



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Message 100/116                 Date: 13-Aug-03  @  12:01 AM   -   RE: RIAA wants you!

Influx

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oh great now you guys are callin me ignorant and stupid

fightin words, fellas



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Message 101/116                 Date: 13-Aug-03  @  01:07 AM   -   RE: RIAA wants you!

pict

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Ignorant,stupid,and don't forget futile
*hides behind psylichon*



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Message 102/116                 Date: 13-Aug-03  @  02:53 AM   -   RE: RIAA wants you!

Influx

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well, Im ok with futile

kinda hard to hide behind psy, man. hes all of what...140lbs? at 6'+ thats not much substance;)



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Message 103/116                 Date: 13-Aug-03  @  03:28 AM   -   RE: RIAA wants you!

psylichon

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125lb, thank you... if you're gonna laugh at me, at least get the dimensions right. ;)



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Message 104/116                 Date: 13-Aug-03  @  06:06 AM   -   RE: RIAA wants you!

beds

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skinny git



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Message 105/116                 Date: 15-Aug-03  @  09:24 AM   -   RE: RIAA wants you!

beds

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^ look



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Message 106/116                 Date: 15-Aug-03  @  03:38 PM   -   RE: RIAA wants you!

Jock

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wheres all the jizz shots ?



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Message 107/116                 Date: 18-Aug-03  @  02:56 PM   -   RE: RIAA wants you!

Spot

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they are at www.thehun.com



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Message 108/116                 Date: 18-Sep-03  @  09:08 PM   -   RE: RIAA wants you!

beds

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look you.



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Message 109/116                 Date: 19-Sep-03  @  08:46 AM   -   RE: RIAA wants you!

Spot

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i cant read that lot, can you summarise?



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Message 110/116                 Date: 19-Sep-03  @  09:49 AM   -   RE: RIAA wants you!

cheddar

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the point is that if you downloaded (even i piece of) music ever then you need to go to RIAAs website regularly to check if they have an action against you.

Not true but watch out they like systems and automatic (see satelite tracking for speeding and parking fining). Its like having to queue at the police station every morning to ask if you have done anything that you need to give them your money/liberty for

The funny bit is in the RIAA thing is watching the polarization of artists



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Message 111/116                 Date: 19-Sep-03  @  10:08 AM   -   RE: RIAA wants you!

Spot

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i dont think they could actually pinpoint any one person for downloading music, unless that person was downloading in such mass that they were making it obvious with bandwidth usage etc. I've been downloading music from Newsgroups for years, probably a few gig a month, only for personal listening pleasure, and if i like it , i'll go and buy it....i see it as extremley good and free advertising tool for the record company.....narrow minded Cunts



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Message 112/116                 Date: 19-Sep-03  @  10:29 AM   -   RE: RIAA wants you!

beds

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they're not being sued by riaa for downloading music, they're being sued for sharing it. if you run kazaa and share files with other users, all the riaa has to do is start downloading from you, which then gives them your i.p. address, then they go to your isp and demand your name and home address. only in the states though the riaa has no chance of suing anyone outside. but the equivalent organisations in the rest of the world are thinking about it.

haven't downloaded any music for ages, last thing i got off kazaa was a load of derek and clive and some porn when the lads came back from the pub the other night.



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Message 113/116                 Date: 19-Sep-03  @  11:28 AM   -   RE: RIAA wants you!

Spot

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heh heh heh, i was demo-ing a printer to a mate the other night, what better image to print out that some bird with a bottle up her arse



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Message 114/116                 Date: 19-Sep-03  @  02:04 PM   -   RE: RIAA wants you!

Pongoid

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An image of that fat tart, Rosen with a welly up her arse?

Ape



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Message 115/116                 Date: 19-Sep-03  @  04:32 PM   -   RE: RIAA wants you!

Spot

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hah hah hah haBloOoOAoaRgghh!



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Message 116/116                 Date: 18-Mar-06  @  03:16 PM     Edit: 19-Mar-06  |  10:38 PM   -   RE: RIAA wants you!

beds

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while sony wastes time/money with drm, the canadian riaa release an interesting report.

and your battery will run out quicker with drm. woohoo.


and bill thompson talks some sense



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