Original Message 1/19                 Date: 28-Feb-03  @  11:12 AM   -   Eye for an Eye

detente

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Heres an idea to end terrorism and avoid war with Iraq. Don't know if it would work but might be worth considering. We tell Muslim World In very certain terms that if we sustain another major attack (WE WILL NUKE YOUR SACRED STONE IN the CENTER OF MECCA WHERE MUSLIMS MAKE THEIR PILGRIMAGE!)After all they leveled our Trade Center which was a symbol of America and the world. Destroying the stone wouldn't require a single muslim death. After all its just a chunk of rock located in a large ampitheatre. A single smart bomb outta do it. Besides Mecca is in Saudi Arabia and that's where 15 of the terrorists came from. There lives don't mean much to them but I bet their sacred sites do. Tit for Tat I say. Detterence works if you can find something someone cares about.

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Message 2/19                 Date: 28-Feb-03  @  11:29 AM   -   RE: Eye for an Eye

Steve Roughley

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'dunno. The world trade center was allways I pretty disgusting monument. Western greed and capitolism. Maybe instead of the standard western knee-jerk reaction (Oh my god we don't deserve this! Someone has to pay!), we should look at what we did to provoke such an attack.

One thing that was never pointed out is that not two weeks before the 9/11 attack, the evangelical jews of the US used their power with the US to prevent the US government from intervening in the Israeli/Palistinian conflict, which resulted in the US pulling out of the international race relations treaty. Basically signing away the lives of countless Palistinians.

That seems more like the kind of act that would trigger an attack on the US. The even more disgusting thing is how the US government used the tragedy for their own gain in accusing the Taliban so that the US could obtain an oil pipeline through Afghanistan.

Regards.

Steve.

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Message 3/19                 Date: 28-Feb-03  @  12:50 PM   -   RE: Eye for an Eye

detente

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Yeah its a complex issue. Try www.thetruthaboutwar.com. Very nasty allegations about our goverments covert efforts in manipulating other countries governments, starting wars, getting our hands dirty, ulterior motives ect. Problem is they do this stuff quietly behind the scences and few people know or object to these actions because they have neither the time nor inclination to stop it. Somehow it appears that the world is a very dangerous place and crap goes on behind the scences that if average people focused on they couldn't go to work in the morning. Keeping people in the dark seems to be their MO. With the current two party system in the U.S. their seems little hope for change. Maybe we don't know much because our lives our better being ignorant. The government keeps lots of secrets from us so how our we supposed to know whats really going on. If we did know what good would it do us? How do you motivate millions of beer drinking, reality tv watching, Suv driving, flag waving consumers to give a crap about anything but their own mantra.

I myself wish Some aliens could take me to another planet and get me the hell out of here. The Human race wears me out.

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Message 4/19                 Date: 28-Feb-03  @  01:11 PM   -   RE: Eye for an Eye

man called clay

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1) god is green and has 3 eyes....and is watching us.
2) drink beer.... BUT turn the telly OFF...that doesn't mean to this channel occasionally because it's got some okay stuff on it....when i'm stupid.
this means totally and completely OFF!
3) bear in mind that fulfilling one's own needs (ie survival) doesn't comprise selling out. being silent when a decent opportunity to speak one's conscience...does.
4) i think everyone will have the opportunity to stand up or sit down for one's rights.
it's coming to this.
5) have faith that most people are good.....
sheep included.

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Message 5/19                 Date: 28-Feb-03  @  01:41 PM     Edit: 28-Feb-03  |  01:43 PM   -   RE: Eye for an Eye

Steve Roughley

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"The Human race wears me out"

Amen to that! The 'sheep' are either good or bad depending on what they are told. Besides, humans invented the concepts of rights and good and bad and if you analyse the concepts you'll quickly realise they are complete fallacies. Invented out of necessity, but too overused not to mention too abstract and vague to be applied now.

Regards.

Steve.

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Message 6/19                 Date: 28-Feb-03  @  01:51 PM   -   RE: Eye for an Eye

detente

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Got web site wrong its www.truthaboutwar.org. You have more faith than I that's for sure. My neighbors (very nice people, very religious) asked me if I watched Tv. Said cable was getting expensive but yes. They said all they watched was Fox News. Sad, very sad. I presume they don't watch much because they can't handle all the SX and Violence. Since I don't have the means to leave this planet considering moving to another country thats more laid back and politically neutral. U.S. ideologues, Religious right, radical left all make me sick. ("and the shrewd shall inherit the earth") oh well........ guess Ill make a few tracks lfo ^^^^^^^^^^^

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Message 7/19                 Date: 28-Feb-03  @  03:18 PM   -   RE: Eye for an Eye

psylichon

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I wouldn't blow up something religious. That really seems to piss em off, no?

And I don't have my Bible here (*cough*), but isn't that whole 'eye for an eye' thing speaking of universal justice, or justice in the eyes of god? How are mere mortals supposed to know such things? God works in mysterious ways...

psy

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Message 8/19                 Date: 28-Feb-03  @  03:51 PM   -   RE: Eye for an Eye

cheddar

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detente - you are admitting that you and the US do not respect 'GOD' (regardless of flavour) and that mammon is the religeon of the US - yes?

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Message 9/19                 Date: 28-Feb-03  @  06:03 PM   -   RE: Eye for an Eye

nobody

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[image file]

Fuck "god" the ever-present, wrathful-yet-benign being that will PUNISH YOU HORRIBLY if you don't worship him and admit that you are a crap human. yet he LOVES YOU.

Religion is kind of fascinating to an atheist like me - I think there is something beneficial to be LEANRED from most religions, but you've got to THINK FOR YOURSELF and sort the data, sift it, and discard the useless, which is 90% or more. So yeah, religion = interesting, yet scary that OTHERWISE intelligent people take it seriously.

Humans ARE this planet's major problem, their own worst enemy, the blinder-wearing sheep, horses, dogs, what-have-you. Whatever you call it, same thing.

I realized one night when I ingested about 5 grams of psilocybin mushrooms and became posessed by the universe, that GOOD , BAD, RIGHT, WRONG, etc. DO NOT EXIST except in the mind of the individual. Benefit, Harm, these DO exist, and are observable. EVIL does not exist. That that can be said to be good, is that which helps the most whilst cauing the LEAST HARM. But that does not mean IT IS GOOD, just that it can be said to be good.

MASS HUMAN AGREEMENT is one of the msot harmful things to happen. Politics is a prime example of such.

AN eye for an eye you say? OK, so on a planetwide scale, we owe the planet our lives - I mean we need to accept and embrace death, not try to avoid it, prolong our lives to the point of undeniable selfishness. GIVE UP YOUR LIFE TO THE PLANET! Join me on a voluntary human extinction program; STOP PROCREATING. Adopt an animal, give it the best life you can. Grow some succulents, some rubber trees.

Now I'm starting to sound like a damn hippy. So I'll prove here that I'm just a simple observer. Image attached. Rolled, composed, exposed, processed & scanned by me, in case anyone wonders. Old barn detail near my residence.

Bla bla bla, if you were a space traveler looking for a hell and found earth, it would suffice.

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Message 10/19                 Date: 28-Feb-03  @  06:39 PM     Edit: 28-Feb-03  |  06:46 PM   -   RE: Eye for an Eye

Steve Roughley

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Nobody, I'd buy you a Virtual drink for that! But they don't exist.  

Never heard so many of my understandings pour out of someone else's head. Dunno if it's frightening or relieving.

Nice one fella!

Back to the original topic: Didn't Gandi once state "An eye for an eye makes the world go blind"? Good point.

Regards.

Steve.

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Message 11/19                 Date: 28-Feb-03  @  07:37 PM     Edit: 28-Feb-03  |  07:40 PM   -   RE: Eye for an Eye

pict

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It's all about resource grabbing,consolidation of power,and extension of authority over as many people as possible.I got into self sufficient farming so as to avoid the system as much as possible but even with your own piece of land the bureaucracy of the EU attempts to stifle any attempt to be self reliant.

The rules for keeping animals have become so stringent and gradually more expensive that only big production line agriculture can survive.I'm forced to pay a vet to check my beef cattle for things that only affect dairy cattle if I don't do it the animals aren't allowed to be outside in the fields where they belong,I'm forced to fill in form after form and jump through hoop after hoop.Most small farms are incapable of continuing so they are selling up and the land goes either to big mega production farmers using the worst farming techniques,or to property developers who create industrial and residential desolation wherever they go.I can buy most food cheaper in the supermarket to the extent that it's hardly worth producing my own,but to give in and simply use the system means to become part of it in a way that is repellent to me personally,every penny I can keep from falling into a profiteers hands is a penny that doesn't go towards propping up a system I despise.


The vast majority of Muslims are exploited by their feudal overlords just in a more primitive way than our overlords exploit us using the distortion of democracy that we have come to accept as our political system,the answer is not to attack the Muslims,but to attack their ignorance and our own.Whatever real freedoms we have won are being eroded and any resistance is swiftly and brutally crushed,more aspects of our life are threatened with scrutiny and control than ever before.Political progress must constantly be pushed for,every freedom that people have ever won has come through organizing and direct action,people have been complacent for too long,political action and involvement has become passe exactly what the powermongers want.R for Referendum lets put this supposed democracy to the test if they refuse a referendum on the most important decision a nation can make there is obviously something wrong with the system.

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Message 12/19                 Date: 28-Feb-03  @  11:16 PM   -   RE: Eye for an Eye

§ï†ÅR

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I was right there when the trade centers were hit. Terribly tragic but I never did nor will I ever consider those towers a symbol of America, much less the world. To me they were more a symbol of what's wrong with America.

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Message 13/19                 Date: 01-Mar-03  @  01:09 AM     Edit: 01-Mar-03  |  01:10 AM   -   RE: Eye for an Eye

Mindspawn

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The trade center towers were buildings. The Stone in Mecca is a rock. They become symbols because we make it so. "An eye for an eye" is actually Hammurabi's code, not the Bible, although the Bible may paraphrase it.

Human's are not a problem to the planet, the planet doesn't care (I suspect). Humans are a "problem" for various non human species living on the planet and other humans. Actually, we're not that different from most other parasitic organisms..... If you're the parasite, everything is "food", and for the "food" this probably isn't much fun...

Nice image, nobody...

Toodles

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Message 14/19                 Date: 01-Mar-03  @  03:21 AM   -   RE: Eye for an Eye

Pongoid

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Yeah...let's go fight some more. That'll make things all better. Hey!!! what fuck are YOU lookin at? Ain't you never seen a mature and intelligent human being go to blows when he's still got something more intelligent and constructive to do or say? Me either. Fuckin stupid bald-monkeys always wanting to fight over stupid shit, thinkin they're so smart, can't even figure out how to wipe their own asses without choppin down a forest, most of 'em.

Ape

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Message 15/19                 Date: 01-Mar-03  @  07:50 AM     Edit: 01-Mar-03  |  07:55 AM   -   RE: Eye for an Eye

Zazza

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Brian: 'You must Think for Yourselves!'

Crowd: 'We must Think for Ourselves!'

Brian: 'You are All Individuals!'

Crowd: "We are all Individuals!'

Voice from back: 'I'm not...'

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Message 16/19                 Date: 01-Mar-03  @  08:43 AM   -   RE: Eye for an Eye

bedwyr

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Message 17/19                 Date: 01-Mar-03  @  11:58 AM     Edit: 01-Mar-03  |  11:59 AM   -   RE: Eye for an Eye

§ï†ÅR

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Nobody, dems fightin wurds ya damn hippy!  

yea that is a nice photo.

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Message 18/19                 Date: 01-Mar-03  @  04:06 PM   -   RE: Eye for an Eye

man called clay

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a more accurate count of US flags on vehicles during a 45 mintue northbound excursion....in the city of san diego, ca..usa...anytime between 6am and 9am during the final week of february 2003: appx. 1 in 50.
it does not take a majority to conduct a war...no matter what the machinization might suggest.

the sheep remain inside their pen...although they see the way out.
peter gabriel 1972

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Message 19/19                 Date: 01-Mar-03  @  05:39 PM   -   RE: Eye for an Eye

cheddar

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but what or who starts the lightning shoals change of direction

If they have played with history then this can be an anomoly, or absolutely not

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