Original Message 1/31                 Date: 12-Dec-02  @  05:51 PM   -   Producing has made me a bad bad man

timothyallanmusic

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So I saw Tiesto last night, there were hundreds of people there. Everyone was dancing their asses off, workin up a sweat, and having a good time.
Where was I? On the balcony observing, and not feelin it at all.

All he was doing was hopping around, and dropping the bass out about every two songs. He had 3 huge projectors that played a looped video that had his name spinning around all night long. The kicker was the 4 sound guys he had. 2 Huuuge mix desks, 3 laptops, and some other machine that looked right outta star trek. They were constantly adjusting stuff on the desks, meanwhile Tiesto danced around his decks some more.

2 years ago, I would have been up there having a good ol time with the rest of the folks. Last night, all I wanted to do was go home and never see that shit again. lol, I am SO JADED now. It was so commercialized and absolutely phoney. I even got in shit from my girlfriend cause I was being 'boring' heheh.

My point? Producing is becoming a very big eye opener for me, both good and bad. On one hand, I love making my own tunes, and having myself and other people enjoy them. On the other hand, I now look at 'live' shows, and DJ's in a totally different light. I have MUCH more respect for people who play their OWN music out, and don't have to rely on a 5 man sound team on $100k worth of gear to make someone elses $10 record sound phat.

Does this happen to everyone who decides to go down the yellow brick road of music production? Where you wake up and realize a lot of the things that got you interested in dance/electronic music in the first place now makes you sick and angry?

-angry tim

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Message 2/31                 Date: 12-Dec-02  @  06:08 PM   -   RE: Producing has made me a bad bad man

errata

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Hahahahahahahaha... funny, YES! I know I stopped just enjoying music. I listen for clarity in the mix, I listen to each sound and how it's used... I Evaluate! And have a difficult time not doing that!

I had a friend who got into music making a few years ago, at the time he was sooooo anamoured of the scene and musicians. Wanted some advice... I ruined his life by saying, "Listen to music, and really pay attention to what the artist does." Now he complains just like you... and me... and everyone I know that does this...

hehehe

e

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Message 3/31                 Date: 12-Dec-02  @  07:52 PM   -   RE: Producing has made me a bad bad man

influx

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"2 years ago, I would have been up there having a good ol time with the rest of the folks. Last night, all I wanted to do was go home and never see that shit again. lol, I am SO JADED now. It was so commercialized and absolutely phoney. I even got in shit from my girlfriend cause I was being 'boring' heheh."

I dont think its jaded, man. its just that...oz has been exposed, and the bar raised.

you now know a LOT more of how this stuff comes about and the mystery is gone.

when I got into electronic music...I would listen and think DAMN how did they make that sound?

now...even if I cant always reproduce it, I understand how its done for the most part and its just not as mysterious.

but there are still tracks that get me hard..just not as many.

its not "jaded" tho...youre more discerning now.

DONT lose the love, though, man. YOu cant pick everything apart...despite how fake shit can be there is still very REAL stuff out there. Your lot now is to find it (or better yet, make it!)

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Message 4/31                 Date: 12-Dec-02  @  08:23 PM   -   RE: Producing has made me a bad bad man

timothyallanmusic

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Don’t get me wrong, it’s not that the music sucks, it is the delivery of it. I’ve developed a changed perception of what I think a ‘live’ performance should be.

I’m not going to start a DJ vs. X argument, but I am sure I would have had a much better time if the guy on stage was doing his own thing, playing his own songs, without having a couple tables full of sound engineers. It takes the magic out of it, like the guy is a puppet, not really putting his soul into it. Maybe it is also a little jealousy come to think of it. He was controlling the crowd, mixed it flawlessly, but none of the songs were ‘his’ (actually, one was I think heheh). I bought an MMT-8 two days ago, for the specific purpose of using it for some live stuff down the road. Even just playing a house party for an hour would put me on cloud 9 for months! But I would be doing my own stuff, bearing my soul so to speak.

I can also see the other side of the coin too… you get a much more varied selection of music from a DJ, usually much longer sets, most of the songs you are familiar with etc etc. In hindsight, I should have gone with the attitude of “enjoy it for what it’s worth”, sucked it up and had a good time… but whatever, what’s done is done.. and now I am paying for it by being reaaaly hungover at work right now

tim

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Message 5/31                 Date: 12-Dec-02  @  08:44 PM   -   RE: Producing has made me a bad bad man

errata

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"you get a much more varied selection of music from a DJ, usually much longer sets"

I dunno, Most Dj's play very similar tracks. I know Dj's whose whole point is to make it feel like one big piece of singular music. Live artists CAN be just as varied... and personaly, I could play all night and the DJ would run out of records!!! Just start makin it up as you go, yo! don't let it be limited to what you did at home... that's the point of a live set! I complain that I don't get ENOUGH time. Most often it's just an hour, more or less... shrug

Influx, that's good medicine there. It's true most tracks aren't sooooo great once you know how it's done... but the ones that still move you move you HARD! Cause you know how it's done, hehehe...

e

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Message 6/31                 Date: 12-Dec-02  @  09:15 PM   -   RE: Producing has made me a bad bad man

xoxos

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shit from the g/f.. heh heh.. "why can't you be more like everyone else so we have a nice, uniform crop?"

people talk about thinking outside the box. well, i reckon i know how i rate.. i've foregone box for years! and then everyone's trying to get *in* the box! then they want to say they're thinking!

!!!

(nrn)

i've done this bit before, haven't i.

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Message 7/31                 Date: 12-Dec-02  @  09:19 PM   -   RE: Producing has made me a bad bad man

errata

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But if i start in my box and work my way into another box aren't I still outside "the" box first referenced?...

e

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Message 8/31                 Date: 12-Dec-02  @  10:25 PM   -   RE: Producing has made me a bad bad man

Mindspawn

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Naw... yer just about to get the shit kicked out of you by box1 (box1=g/f)...=)

Peace

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Message 9/31                 Date: 12-Dec-02  @  10:26 PM     Edit: 12-Dec-02  |  10:28 PM   -   RE: Producing has made me a bad bad man

Steve Roughley

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I know alot of people here don't agree with what I am about to say, but this is the exact reason that I can still go mad to progressive music (prog-house, nu-breaks, etc.). It still has that magic whenever a fresh new grounbreaker is dropped. The progressive scene is about progressing, funnily enough. There are sooooo many tracks being produced that keep pushing things. And I just love that feeling when a DJ like Breeder, or Digweed drop a brand new track with brandnew sounds and brand new grooves, like when I heard Funk D'Void's Diabla for the first time. FANTASTIC     One of the great benefits of being a producer, is some of these tracks are damned well made, which really makes the clubbing epxerience even more amazing!

Steve.

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Message 10/31                 Date: 12-Dec-02  @  10:30 PM   -   RE: Producing has made me a bad bad man

bedwyr

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i find getting ratted and jumping around like a loon to be much more enjoyable than worrying about the snare sample.

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Message 11/31                 Date: 12-Dec-02  @  10:35 PM   -   RE: Producing has made me a bad bad man

Steve Roughley

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Dunno, I find that when it is possible to focus on the sounds more, they can create a much more visceral reaction. Than they otherwise would have to the un-trained ear.

Find me dancing on the walls  

Steve.

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Message 12/31                 Date: 12-Dec-02  @  10:51 PM   -   RE: Producing has made me a bad bad man

timothyallanmusic

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"i find getting ratted and jumping around like a loon to be much more enjoyable than worrying about the snare sample. "

well said.

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Message 13/31                 Date: 13-Dec-02  @  12:34 AM   -   RE: Producing has made me a bad bad man

influx

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heh. ratted.

dunno...I just dont often hear that much taht Im like "DAYAMNNNNNN!!!!!" about.

and when I do, I smile REAL big like

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Message 14/31                 Date: 13-Dec-02  @  01:09 AM   -   RE: Producing has made me a bad bad man

errata

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Me too! I told a friend about this and he called me pretentious! Shook me to my foundation.... ME???

ugh

e

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Message 15/31                 Date: 13-Dec-02  @  02:09 AM   -   RE: Producing has made me a bad bad man

xoxos

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you can't "let go" errata? it's easy for me with greens and a bit of abstinence beforehand. pure receptivity. when it finished i'm like "..i wrote this?" what a blessing.

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Message 16/31                 Date: 13-Dec-02  @  02:22 AM   -   RE: Producing has made me a bad bad man

operant

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artist support artist thru there records..so what
if they spin each others stuff...

It's the scen that bothers me..and plus there's
only a select few I like..

I waNT DJS TO PLAY MY RECORDS, even
when they jump cause they move one fader
across the mixer...geez...the talent....

everytime i see this argument...I get defensive
to rest assure death to vinyl will never see it's
day  

ok, nuff bye

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Message 17/31                 Date: 13-Dec-02  @  02:23 AM   -   RE: Producing has made me a bad bad man

opearant

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but i know what you mean too by what your
saying too..

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Message 18/31                 Date: 13-Dec-02  @  08:47 AM   -   RE: Producing has made me a bad bad man

Maarten

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I recognise what Tim is saying... hehe- it's been spooking me aswell. And when I hear some damn interesting things- instead of going wild and having a blast, I get inspired and just want to go home to make music  

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Message 19/31                 Date: 13-Dec-02  @  08:54 AM   -   RE: Producing has made me a bad bad man

dARKSTATe

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The damn nice thing is.. being able to go to wherever and MAKE your own tunes! Man, we (hopefully) got our album project coming back from the duplicators today, proper artwork and photography and everything... its not an ego thing, its a satisfaction thing.. knowing I started a project, worked with people, had a good time doing it and have something to show for it at the end...

Other people enjoying my music and getting into it is just the icing on a very tasty cake!!  

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Message 20/31                 Date: 01-Jan-03  @  02:55 PM   -   RE: Producing has made me a bad bad man

Kreature

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So true. The more you learn the more you understand. The more you understand the more you think. The more you think the less you find yourself not thinking. The less you not think the less you free your creativity. It's a tightrope, creativity and analysis. It's a monkey, crazy and intelligent. It's a ing paradox like everything else.

You could always ditch the girlfreind, stop going out, work on the studio tan, grow a beard, eat more noodles. Or take various forms of mind-altering substances in a vian and somewhat dangerous attempt to attain enlightenment. Or, well, suicide is always an option but only for those with a strong stomach. However the best solution is probably to use your increased awareness of what's 'good' (subjective obviously) and stop going to see crappy, jumped-up, wankers ponce arround on stage. The beauty of knowing wheather you really like something is that when you do you go ape for it.

Sorry I don't have anything usefull to add.
PLUR

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Message 21/31                 Date: 01-Jan-03  @  07:57 PM   -   RE: Producing has made me a bad bad man

cheddar

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Just to start the year on the right foot...

Kreature you talk shit, really. "So true. The more you learn the more you understand. The more you understand the more you think. The more you think the less you find yourself not thinking. The less you not think the less you free your creativity. It's a tightrope, creativity and analysis. It's a monkey, crazy and intelligent. It's a ing paradox like everything else. "

This is the wrong way round, the more expreience, you more you think you understand (and the more you are sure you are correct) the less room you have to tolerate alternatives so the less chance you find something that you consider creative (cos you know) and so objectivly the less creative you are.

I don't make music but i do create and i am most imptressed with my work when I happen across it, or an accident etc and IT announces itself. For me the hardest bit is stopping - thats why i like pieces that jump out at you.

It realy is vicarious, boring public masterbation hearing old tunes in new suits and dj's/performers/whoever getting all smiley and proud when all you want to do is play the piece that they were it getting turned on by which had them make the track.

What is new?

Happy new year

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Message 22/31                 Date: 02-Jan-03  @  08:16 AM   -   RE: Producing has made me a bad bad man

Kreature

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Dear Cheddar,

Thank you for you interest in my 'shit'. I entirley agree with you, after all I know very little about stuff. However, "the more you experience the more you think you understand", true for most scenarios I imagine. I tend to find that the more I experience the more I realise how much more stuff there is to know, and hence the more I realise how little I know.

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Message 23/31                 Date: 02-Jan-03  @  09:35 AM   -   RE: Producing has made me a bad bad man

cheddar

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In the spirit of upping postings Kreature..., so much so that you have to tell us all about it.

If Cheddar = Kreature then...

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Message 24/31                 Date: 02-Jan-03  @  02:21 PM   -   RE: Producing has made me a bad bad man

Kreature

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...then kreature = cheese. (I prefer milder varieties usually).

More the 'festive' spirit than 'posting' spirit. Sorry this is all new to me, message boards and that. I guess I'm just getting carried away, not enough chance to talk shit to people these days. I'm working in the cultural black hole that is South Korea. You'ld be sickened by what the do to/call music over here.

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Message 25/31                 Date: 02-Jan-03  @  08:12 PM   -   RE: Producing has made me a bad bad man

cheddar

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appos, nowt personal Kreature, Thanks but no no... no dog for me.

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Message 26/31                 Date: 02-Jan-03  @  08:26 PM   -   RE: Producing has made me a bad bad man

psylichon

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I've reread these posts about 5 times now and still can't figure out what you two are on about. or just on.

psy

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Message 27/31                 Date: 02-Jan-03  @  08:41 PM   -   RE: Producing has made me a bad bad man

errata

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translation: (my perspective)

Kreature says, (paraphrase) "as you learn you begin to get it, as you get it you think less about it, as you think less you create more..."

(eval): the premise is flawed by the following statement: "The more you think the less you find yourself not thinking." He's trying to confuse us with Jedi Mind Tricks!

Cheddar says, (not easily fooled by raver voodoo) "That's a bunch of bullsh+t."

Tet-e-tet arrises between the two as Kreature attempts to further muddy the pristine waters of Cheddar's mind, ie: "I tend to find that the more I experience the more I realise how much more stuff there is to know"...

Cheddar falls into the Jedi trick here by refusing to give Kreature the last (and obviously stated) word in the discussion.... Realizing his blunder he resorts to Algebra (probably figured the PLUR salute to be a clear indication of long dead brain cells)... But the young knight was quick and threw it back in his face...

Was there a winner/looser? My take: Those who tried to make sense of it all definately went home with the table scraps! It's a duty of my loving kindness to spare the rest by offering this play by play!

e

call me an ass! I deserve it.

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Message 28/31                 Date: 02-Jan-03  @  09:51 PM   -   RE: Producing has made me a bad bad man

d

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actually thanks for "clearing that up" for me  

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Message 29/31                 Date: 03-Jan-03  @  04:23 PM   -   RE: Producing has made me a bad bad man

kreature

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I can't beleive that people are trying to figure this 'shit' out, nice analysis though errata. Certainly cleared things up for me, you know how it always helps to get an objective opinon on these things. I'm also glad that you pointed out my mistake:

"The more you think the less you find yourself not thinking."

What I was trying to convey was pretty much what your interpretation said - it's when your not thinking and just experiencing that you are most susceptable to creative inspration.

Oh, I'm not so much a Jedi as a disciple of Monkey, it's all Monkey-majik.....

PLUR

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Message 30/31                 Date: 03-Jan-03  @  05:15 PM   -   RE: Producing has made me a bad bad man

errata

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Cheers, Kreature...

Thanks for not taking it wrong... it was obviously a joke. And we all know that Jedi's keep their presence hidden in this day and age... but I see through your games...

e

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Message 31/31                 Date: 04-Jan-03  @  11:06 AM     Edit: 04-Jan-03  |  11:21 AM   -   RE: Producing has made me a bad bad man

milan

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hehe... nice one, e.

as for "as you get it you think less about it, as you think less you create more", i think i'd totaly agree with that. i also *think* thats the stage i'm approaching lately. at least i hope so.

edit: oh and btw, i think we should be distinguishing the technical process/knowledge, and creative process/knowledge. the more you know about tech and feel comfortable with it, the more your mind is free to work on the creative aspect of things. now, as for creative end of things, i think you'd be better of just "feeling" it instead of "knowing" it, but thats just me. and that was my contribution to theory of art while drinking coffee and recovering from the previous night, not to mention previous days' celebration.

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