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Subject: Human Rights Watch


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Original Message 1/79                 Date: 01-Nov-02  @  06:54 PM   -   Human Rights Watch

GT

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We're starting to get somewhere now...let justice be served on those knots in societies bowels.



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Message 2/79                 Date: 01-Nov-02  @  07:07 PM   -   RE: Human Rights Watch

Stvy

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Hi,

And waging war with armoured cars, tanks and helicopter gunships against people with slings and stones, is a crime against humanity.

Cheers

Stvy



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Message 3/79                 Date: 01-Nov-02  @  07:48 PM   -   RE: Human Rights Watch

formant

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gt have you heard about the way the israelis treat the christians in palestine?

its pretty bad man.

i need to find the statistics but the church was growing in isreal prior to 1948 and has been declining since. in other words christianity was better off under the arabs than the jews.

some things to consider, knowing your point of view as i do :-)

jamey



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Message 4/79                 Date: 01-Nov-02  @  08:33 PM   -   RE: Human Rights Watch

d

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Do you enjoy a little "ad hominem" action?



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Message 5/79                 Date: 01-Nov-02  @  09:04 PM   -   RE: Human Rights Watch

formant

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isn't that all we do here?



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Message 6/79                 Date: 01-Nov-02  @  09:47 PM   -   RE: Human Rights Watch

influx

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wait...GT....Israel..punishing palestinians?

for wanting their land back?

for fighting back (yes, with stones and light arms against tanks and missiles?)

guess I should read the article first



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Message 8/79                 Date: 02-Nov-02  @  12:45 AM   -   RE: Human Rights Watch

GT

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metus d?

zazza, a tiny fraction of dissention can be expected.


yeah j, you know i'm NOT against any particular people and i do know how the Israelis treat others (preach the word and get sent to jail). you forgot to mention the flip side too.

To me, the hate is on both sides, but the world cannot tolerate murderous bombings and should not.

i'm actually floored that HRW came out with this, but it's a step in the right direction.

britain never did "give in" to the IRA, who later were very apologetic about their unwarranted actions. Israel is following suit.

Unfortunately, we've got two foes at the top of opposing sides. Little do they know, their forefathers are the same. All blood runs red.



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Message 9/79                 Date: 02-Nov-02  @  01:52 AM   -   RE: Human Rights Watch

influx

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ok. I read it.

BOTH sides should be punished (?) for these acts. Israel kills civilians too...

damn...sick fucking world this.



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Message 10/79                 Date: 02-Nov-02  @  02:33 AM   -   RE: Human Rights Watch

formant

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yah point taken gt...  

jamey



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Message 11/79                 Date: 02-Nov-02  @  02:40 AM   -   RE: Human Rights Watch

pict

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GT let's not forget the crimes that the Brits have committed in Ireland and it could be argued that the IRAs actions have actually forced dialogue between the opposing sides.



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Message 12/79                 Date: 02-Nov-02  @  03:45 AM   -   RE: Human Rights Watch

influx

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cant always side with the good guys just cuz theyre sposed to be the good guys

IRA did some evil shit...but cornered animals are the same everywhere you look...push em too far and they react violently.



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Message 13/79                 Date: 02-Nov-02  @  08:49 AM   -   RE: Human Rights Watch

Zazza

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'britain never did "give in" to the IRA'

and the Irish DID give in to the British. Why?

Because they beat the shit out of them until they did.

re The Israeli/Palestinian conflict. The Palestinians never did give in to the Israeli terrorists did they?



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Message 14/79                 Date: 02-Nov-02  @  11:50 PM   -   RE: Human Rights Watch

loopy

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Yeah I think most Brits wanted out of NI, after all it wasn't really the Brits fight, just two religous factions wanting to harm eachother. Way I see it is let em go for it. Then when they've ed up their own country let em all go to the States as refugees. Ha ha, after all there is a massive amount of Irish there. Hey I wonder if Osama Bin Laden is feeling like a cornered animal? Maybe the US is hoping that if they beat the shit out of Al qaida they will give in?

WAR - HUH - WHAT IS IT GOOD FOR? ABSOLUTELY NOTHING - SAY IT AGAIN.



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Message 15/79                 Date: 03-Nov-02  @  12:04 AM   -   RE: Human Rights Watch

Zazza

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'after all it wasn't really the Brits fight,'

??????????

what?

errr... gobsmacked...

read some history maybe?



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Message 16/79                 Date: 03-Nov-02  @  11:59 PM   -   RE: Human Rights Watch

loopy

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What I mean is basically it stemmed from the Catholics and Protestants wanting to kill eachother, and then the Brits chuck their army in there to "keep the peace", shoulda jus let em get on with it. But do correct me if I'm wrong.



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Message 17/79                 Date: 04-Nov-02  @  12:04 AM   -   RE: Human Rights Watch

Zazza

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Well, you really should read the history of the english occupation of ireland

try www.google.com



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Message 18/79                 Date: 04-Nov-02  @  12:07 AM   -   RE: Human Rights Watch

steef

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the protestants are 'brits' who were shipped
over to disposess the irish of their land mate.
There's a lot more to it than that, but I can't be
arsed.

To be honest, I think the UK govt would love to
get rid of NI - it costs the taxpayer a fortune
and I really can't see spain invading
nowadays. But if you give it back to the Irish,
then the protestants will kick off. catch 22.



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Message 19/79                 Date: 04-Nov-02  @  01:09 AM   -   RE: Human Rights Watch

pict

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The English were in Ireland causing problems well before the reformation and they created the religious problem there also,due to settling hordes of protestants in Ulster(initially thought up by James the 6th/1st).



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Message 20/79                 Date: 04-Nov-02  @  06:16 AM   -   RE: Human Rights Watch

influx

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damn. its really almost identical innit? cept the brits didnt claim it was their holy land?



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Message 21/79                 Date: 04-Nov-02  @  10:05 AM   -   RE: Human Rights Watch

cheddar

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there is a difference

Now the world can see (albeit what is shown)
and decisions to act are increasingly in the light of global (first world) viewers.

I still think that consumers can influence these things through sanctioning the products of countries that piss you off. Getting a list of products and originating countries would be a useful tool.



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Message 22/79                 Date: 04-Nov-02  @  10:47 AM   -   RE: Human Rights Watch

Zazza

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yup, another transplanted population causing decades/centuries of conflict. And.. of course, the people dumped on are the 'terrorists' ho hum.



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Message 23/79                 Date: 04-Nov-02  @  10:50 AM   -   RE: Human Rights Watch

influx

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everything is so blurry!

but hey cheddar...so boycott offending countries?

oh the MADNESS if we were to know the truth about the US? I mean..seriously...

can one get so fabulously wealthy WITHOUT pooping all over the concept of ethics?



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Message 24/79                 Date: 04-Nov-02  @  01:41 PM   -   RE: Human Rights Watch

Zazza

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win the lottery?



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Message 25/79                 Date: 04-Nov-02  @  04:21 PM   -   RE: Human Rights Watch

Defector Z

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Poor man's tax...



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Message 26/79                 Date: 04-Nov-02  @  06:50 PM   -   RE: Human Rights Watch

loopy

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So pull out the protestants then, give Ireland back to the catholics and ship all the Irish from Britan back to Ireland then eh? Then withdraw any trade agreements and government help? All because of a skirmish back in the days of James6th/1st? It makes me laugh when all this crap gets bandied about, like black people going on about slavery - duh ancient history (cue some dickwad saying that slavery still exists) if you really feel that strongly about all this crap then don't buy anything German, Japanese, Vietnamise etc etc. MOVE ON.



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Message 27/79                 Date: 04-Nov-02  @  09:16 PM     Edit: 04-Nov-02  |  09:18 PM   -   RE: Human Rights Watch

Zazza

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Yeah, whinging minorities.. they don't know how tough we white folks have it... shit man, just cos your granpappy was burnt by the KKK and your granma raped by the local white boys.. and your pa's in prison for stealing.. hell we all know those guys are too dumb to get job anyways, no wonder half the black boys are in prison or on crack.. they deserve that shit.. but hey, some of 'em are pretty good at running.. i guess the slower ones got weeded out..

Right on man...

And slavery? Didn't Abe Lincoln ban it in 1965 or summat?



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Message 28/79                 Date: 04-Nov-02  @  09:44 PM   -   RE: Human Rights Watch

loopy

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Thank you for coming in right on cue  
Ahhh where would we be without do-gooders? Bollox I say, do gooders just keep the fire fuelled are perpetuate the hate. See? No, thought not. Keep in your little cubicle, its safe in there. I think I'm gonna go out tonight and kill some Germans, after all they killed my Great Grandpappy in WW1. (For our cousins in the US - I'm being ironic, joking) Just before all the knees start jerking. LOL



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Message 29/79                 Date: 04-Nov-02  @  10:10 PM     Edit: 04-Nov-02  |  10:13 PM   -   RE: Human Rights Watch

Zazza

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yeah, go kill some germans, cool idea..

can I come to the trial?

What you said above cant be irony by the way, because that would imply that someone is suggesting taking revenge, which they aren't...



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Message 30/79                 Date: 04-Nov-02  @  10:33 PM   -   RE: Human Rights Watch

loopy

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Look man, all I'm trying to say is the longer ppl hang on to history and what has happened in the past the harder it becomes for us to unite and move foreward. Sometimes it just seems that certain so called "PC" ppl (usually white, although not always) banging on about you name it - Vietnam, Slavery, IRA, etc etc are fuelling the fire and the ppl who these issues really affect IE "the victims" would rather just forget about it. Often they have read a few books and jump up on their soapbox without ever really knowing the score, and making decisions and statements because they think it makes them sound civilised and progressive, when in fact to me it seems obvious that they have never really understood. I myself am from very mixed roots with quite a diverse family line yet I feel no need to "fight the cause" because often there is no "cause". I could go on and on about how my ancestors were persecuted but what is the point?



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Message 31/79                 Date: 04-Nov-02  @  10:40 PM   -   RE: Human Rights Watch

xoxos

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aah but this is a complex issue, isn't it?



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Message 32/79                 Date: 04-Nov-02  @  10:40 PM     Edit: 04-Nov-02  |  10:42 PM   -   RE: Human Rights Watch

Zazza

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I see your point, but unfortunately it isn't in the past it is a fact of life in the present..

and the reason i know it is is because half my family is black and i have to deal with them being physically and verbally abused because of their skin color.. sad but true..

racism is endemic in society... just is.. sorry.. i see it with my own eyes on a daily basis.. and believe if it happened to you you wouldn't stand there and grin about it, you'd probably slug someone.. but then that makes you the violent one doesn't it? So you have to take the abuse and move on... with as much dignity as you can muster..



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Message 33/79                 Date: 05-Nov-02  @  09:50 AM   -   RE: Human Rights Watch

cheddar

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its a diversion - play and pay,

divide and rule



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Message 34/79                 Date: 05-Nov-02  @  09:53 AM   -   RE: Human Rights Watch

loopy

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Well, yes it is a very complex issue, but where does it stop? Throughout history ppl have persecuted, enslaved, killed, raped, pillaged eachother etc - its what ppl do. As is now known to be true it all began in Africa, humans originated in Africa. So in essence all the rednex, racists, vikings etc etc have their roots in Africa albeit a very long time ago. Similarly racism exists among black ppl directed at other black ppl, I know of Jamacians that hate Africans for example, also do ppl realise that the slave trade was started by blacks? Contraversial stuff, sure, but it is little documented, so how does that sit? I am mixed race and I do not categorise myself into a little pigeon hole, I'm a human and that is all. The longer we hold up banners stating what we are the longer it will take to reach a true civilised society. To my mind so called "PC" ppl are as bad as DJs who say "well I only play Tribal progressive intelligent two step junglist hardcore techno house ragga trance from Germany" i.e its a closed mind and a narrow view. It just serves to create more barriers not tear them down, why do ppl feel that everything has to have a clearcut label? BTW I am not trolling, I am expressing my views and if that is not welcome here then tell me and I will not come back.



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Message 35/79                 Date: 05-Nov-02  @  09:57 AM   -   RE: Human Rights Watch

psylichon

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hate to say it, but I kinda agree with ol' loopy here. When it comes down to it, this whole idea of you being one color and me being another is just this wonderful grand illusion we've built up anyway. Hell, I can't even tell you that you're you and I'm me. I really don't believe that, at the deepest roots of reality, those distinctions apply at all.

And history, well don't even get me started on time...

psylichon



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Message 36/79                 Date: 05-Nov-02  @  10:01 AM   -   RE: Human Rights Watch

loopy

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Oh, and back to the Irish thing, if you look at a map can you see where Ireland was connected to? Oh yeah Britan, funny that. See what I mean.



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Message 37/79                 Date: 05-Nov-02  @  11:25 AM   -   RE: Human Rights Watch

Zazza

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loopy: yup, I agree with a lot of what you say... but as I said, the racism thing is here, now, so what should we do, shut up and pretend it's not happening?

And slavery isn't new, right, there was already a healthy slave trade going on in africa when the europeans started turning up and buying slaves from other africans. Although in africa slaves were part of society much as slaves in Greece, the roman empire etc.. were.. the europeans introduced new levels of degradation and brutality into the process..

To give an example... the portuguese worked out how much it cost to feed, keep and clothe a slave for a year and realised that it was cheaper to buy new ones... so they literally worked their slaves to death on a loincloth/minimum diet basis and bought new ones..

anyhow.. yes it's time people dropped the them and us crap on so many levels and playing fields..

I don't think this means pretending that predjudice and injustice doesnt exist tho... cos that just stores up trouble for ever..

ironically, slavery is still going on in africa, eastern europe and asia.. in fact some of our great western corporations have slaves working for them in third world factories..

it's a sad world..



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Message 38/79                 Date: 05-Nov-02  @  11:55 AM   -   RE: Human Rights Watch

GT

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It's not all gloom and doom really


Outlooks are like cups of water being half full or half empty



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Message 39/79                 Date: 05-Nov-02  @  12:14 PM   -   RE: Human Rights Watch

pict

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Loopy if it was just a case of things happening back in the times of James the 6th/1st that would be one thing but the fact is the Brits and their adherents(the Ulster prods)have been behaving badly in Ireland up until modern times should people simply sweep away the fact that they have been terrorised by a very powerful foreign nation and forget about past atrocities how far back should those atrocities be before we forget about them?I've got family in South Armagh a nice rural spot with Brit Army watchtowers watching over the general population getting rid of all of them would go someway to creating dialogue as for Ireland at one time having been geologically joined to Britain so fucking what France is geologically joined to Germany should the French simply give up being French and become German the fact is Ireland has had a very different culture from Britain for the best part of 1500 years I've had members of my family killed and raped by the Brits ever heard of the Black and Tans and the B specials how about the Paras never heard of Bloody sunday?.In the same vein in America a few years back a couple of rednecks dragged a black guy behind their car until his head came off this shit is still happening now fucksake look at Rwanda and Yugoslavia. I'm sorry but I don't look at the world through multiculturally tinted spectacles and history isn't always something that happened a thousand years ago in a far away place.



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Message 40/79                 Date: 05-Nov-02  @  01:44 PM   -   RE: Human Rights Watch

k

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yeah loopy - i think no-one here deines that everyone has had a turn at being a bastard, white people were the first slaves, ask any Rasta... but I think what people are suggesting is that to MOVE FORWARD, we firast need to collectively AKNOWLEDGE the hugely negative aspect of humans behavious in this scenario... if some of the people live in denial of this it cant ever be eradicated.

I dont think your attitude helps, even tho you claim if eveyone had it like you it'd be better.

I mean it's a classic right... like with drug addicts or alchoholics or people with any type of 'problem'. They cant fix it until they admit that it is there in the first place, admitting there is a problem is the first step to fixing it surely??



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Message 41/79                 Date: 05-Nov-02  @  03:24 PM   -   RE: Human Rights Watch

loopy

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Well guys I think we are agreeing on the same thing here, because I am certainly not suggesting that we "make out it never happened" rather what I am saying is learn from past mistakes. In 5000 or so years from now if us humans haven't messed the whole place up how do you think ppl will look? I believe that for the most part we will all look pretty much the same, years of evolution and mixing will mean that there will be no black, white, yellow etc and hopefully with the labels the hatred will disappear. If not then will ppl still be bickering over historic skirmishes, I for one hope not. Don't forget - racism - call it whatever you like - only exists because ppl let it and it is due to lack of education, ignorance and clinging to the past, well thats my take on it anyway.



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Message 42/79                 Date: 05-Nov-02  @  05:37 PM   -   RE: Human Rights Watch

k

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yeah, ok, now you have replied in some other threads your stance is a bit clearer, but dont you think that taking that 'casual' approach of making light of it might be viewed by some people who GENUINELY beleive that these issues are crap, and this will just confirm their own predjudices cos they might not see the subtle sarcasm you say you were employing?

anyways... all I'm trying to do is bring a bit of sanity to the procedings before it gets out of hand... and at least it seems to have brought out some better responses and everyone is a bit clearer about peoples position. So that is cool

carry on...



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Message 43/79                 Date: 05-Nov-02  @  06:16 PM   -   RE: Human Rights Watch

loopy

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Coolio  



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Message 44/79                 Date: 06-Nov-02  @  12:00 AM   -   RE: Human Rights Watch

Mindspawn

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Simple position: If you do much travelling in the world, you're bound to end up a "minority" at some point. Try it out, see how you like the fit.

Human "rights" are whatever those in power decide. They're not universl truths. I DO get tired of hearing people that keep "the fires burning" about things that happened a good ways in the past. I DO NOT have a problem with people speaking out about current injustices (just dunna go dragging history into it, cos history is just that - someone's STORY of how something went down - while sometimes accurate, it can sometimes be found to be woefully inaccurate...). If you have to justify your soapboxing by filling in with past injustices, no one will ever move forward... NO ONE.

I've had the shit kicked out of me on more than one occasion because of "who I am." That doesn't suddenly make it okay for me to bash a whole ethnic group because the folk that trashed me happened to follow something of the same creed/culture.... Sure I can if I want to, but to what end? I hate all rednecks cos they dunna like gypsies? I hate all blacks cos they dunna like whites? I hate all Italians cos they dunna like yokels? I hate all Texans cos they dunna like NAs? I hate all etc., etc. Ya see where that can go?

Race, creed, ethnicty... They're all "touchy" subjects... Why? I dunno really, but maybe it's because folks (on both sides) just won't let it go. I mean afterall, most of you fuckers ancestors spent a good deal of time chasing my folks off your land and calling us thieves and worse. So maybe I should hunt down all of you, eh?

Peace - and I do mean that.



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Message 45/79                 Date: 06-Nov-02  @  01:24 AM   -   RE: Human Rights Watch

influx

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youre "native american"?

or....youre talking about different ancestors and thieves and land stealing?



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Message 46/79                 Date: 06-Nov-02  @  02:33 AM   -   RE: Human Rights Watch

Mindspawn

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Hardly, though according the the government, I have enuff "blood" in me to qualify me as such. Having lived with the NA folk a bit, I know I'm not native american....

I'm from gypsy stock, for what it's worth... an' that ain't much...=) Tinkers to be exact....



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Message 47/79                 Date: 06-Nov-02  @  04:21 AM   -   RE: Human Rights Watch

Zazza

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Hey, I used to hang out with some tinkers, or 'diddicoy' they called themselves working on farms in kent, england. Guy called Nelson and his family.. they had this unbelievably immaculate caravan.. it was like a palace in there..

Those guys were tough as nails...

 



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Message 48/79                 Date: 06-Nov-02  @  06:05 AM   -   RE: Human Rights Watch

Mindspawn

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Well, to be honest, our line might be diddicoy, too, but they like to claim Rom blood (why I dunno...), but there's enuff East European influence in our cant to maybe justify it. Still, there's no reason they couldn't have adopted that to suit them. Fugging gyps...=)



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Message 49/79                 Date: 06-Nov-02  @  06:13 AM   -   RE: Human Rights Watch

Mindspawn

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Actually, I DO know why they like to claim Rom blood... it makes 'em more "important" in the grand scheme of all things gypsy. Thus, I suspect it's BS and we're probably just a bunch of lazy white trash that likes to move around, play music, steal shit, and claim that we're Rom. Lot more "respectable" than saying you're a dreg of society....



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Message 50/79                 Date: 06-Nov-02  @  06:28 AM   -   RE: Human Rights Watch

psylichon

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or a model...



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Message 51/79                 Date: 06-Nov-02  @  07:24 AM   -   RE: Human Rights Watch

Mindspawn

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LOL!!!!!!

Preach on brother psylichon! =)



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Message 52/79                 Date: 06-Nov-02  @  10:51 AM   -   RE: Human Rights Watch

influx

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so a gypsy eh?

Rom = Romanian?

model? lost me.



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Message 53/79                 Date: 06-Nov-02  @  11:33 AM   -   RE: Human Rights Watch

k

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heh, I used to work and hang out with (drinking time) Big Bill Calloway from the Calloway family - Bigtime true gypsies. he was one wild guy, 28 stone, jet back hair like japanese, no body hair, totaly white skin. Pure breed mate - he was wild... Funny thing was it turned out he knew my grannies man, cos he was a well known scrappie & character in devon. Small world.



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Message 54/79                 Date: 06-Nov-02  @  12:22 PM   -   RE: Human Rights Watch

Zazza

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rom = romany



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Message 55/79                 Date: 06-Nov-02  @  03:57 PM   -   RE: Human Rights Watch

milan

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you have gypsies in america? wow, never thought about it. dunno why, seems logical.

i saw this great docu on tv once about tzar of romanian gypsys (apparently they do have one. i know they have dukes and such, but this guy was the top numero uno) travelling with his crew to india to find their ancestors. it was magical, better than LOTR if you ask me: they travelled by bus and train all the way across asia finding gypsy hospitality along the way. when they arrived to india the raja of the province where the gypsies originate from accepted them to his pallace and threw a ball for them. our romanian guy decided this cannot be his ancestors because they are rich and well educated and all, so in the end they went on and found some asketic(sp) nomads in the desert to embrace. they shared dances, knowledge etc... true story. well funny.



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Message 56/79                 Date: 06-Nov-02  @  04:28 PM   -   RE: Human Rights Watch

steef

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tinkers aren't strictly gypies though milan,
similar lifestyle and that but not the same
people.



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Message 57/79                 Date: 06-Nov-02  @  06:49 PM   -   RE: Human Rights Watch

influx

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ascetic



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Message 58/79                 Date: 06-Nov-02  @  07:05 PM   -   RE: Human Rights Watch

Zazza

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tinker, tailor, soldier, spy

bleedin' new age travellers.. how dare they not want to live in a house..



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Message 59/79                 Date: 06-Nov-02  @  09:04 PM   -   RE: Human Rights Watch

xoxos

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we saw a likkle gypsy wagon gonig down the salt river canyon.. (out here in arizona) must've taken all day on the switchbacks. big canyon!

for u.s. folks.. when i was kid in u.k. i asked why all the farmer fields have these trenches dug around them.. to keep tinkers from camping their wagons on the fields.. now that's a LOT of fields and a lot of trenches!

it's funny. u.s. people are supposedly the most diverse but y'all blend into this one big, anemic commercial controlled culture that has absolutely no clue about how different cultures really interact.

another funny thing i was thinking of.. you go into any village in u.k. (and the next one 1/3 mile down road) and you'll find a monument (well two) in the square with a list of names on it.

now HERE you go to washington d.c. you can see a big old wall if you like, but noospherically, it's "up there, in d.c. with all the other important crap" not right in your hometown, part of your daily life, with surnames of your friends on it. unreal.



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Message 60/79                 Date: 06-Nov-02  @  09:35 PM   -   RE: Human Rights Watch

influx

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nonsense. there are war memorials in many states, dude. even city-specific ones.

come now, xoxos. youre goin overboard yet again with the all americans suck thing.



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Message 61/79                 Date: 06-Nov-02  @  09:57 PM   -   RE: Human Rights Watch

Mindspawn

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Ayup - the town where I reside, Winchester, MA, has it's own war memorial. They're fair proud of it too.

In the US, there's gypsy folk like the travellers, which oft get a bad rap even from other gypsies. Point I was trying to make, and maybe I did in a round about way, is even the "lowest common denominator" in our society (whoever they may be) tends to try and jack up where they belong in the social strata... i.e., I'm gypsy, but I'm Rom, not just any old gypsy....

Like k said about the Calloway guy, he's a "true gypsy." An' I'm not railin' at you k, methinks you know where I'm comin from, but y'all see how easy it is to slide into the racial, ethnic, class thing... even without trying?

Dunna get me wrong, I believe in being proud of your own heritage, just not at the expense of others being "put in their proper places."

Pesa



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Message 62/79                 Date: 06-Nov-02  @  11:20 PM   -   RE: Human Rights Watch

dissonance

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Here's how this works....

You have said Palestinian boy throwing rocks at an IDF tank because it's in his back yard where he happens to kick the football around. He gets popped while standing next to his buddy, and his buddy flees. His buddy now wonders, "my friend was just shot because he was throwing rocks at a tank in his back yard, maybe I should stop hucking rocks at tanks.." and decides to do so. But he then considers that another one of his friends was shot on his way to school, and he wasn't doing anything but walking to school...so now he wonders, "maybe I shouldn't go to school, my friend just got popped." and he decides that he's not going to go to school in fear of getting sniped by some IDF guy.

So now his family needs some food, and needs to walk down to the market, but he then remembers that this particular time doesn't fall within the 1-2 hours a day that they can go outside and they reconsider. Now it is within the curfew, but he then considers another friend that got shot and killed trying to get some vegetables that are available at the local market...in addition to the fact that if they had made it, who would have been out selling shit anyway...you might get sniped. So his entire family forgoes getting any food and figures that they are just as well to stay inside, but then they consider what happened at Jenin and Ramallah and how a neighbors house was bulldozed with the family still inside, and they decide as a family....FUCK IT...there ain't shit to live for.


dissonance



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Message 63/79                 Date: 07-Nov-02  @  07:16 AM     Edit: 07-Nov-02  |  07:21 AM   -   RE: Human Rights Watch

Zazza

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Racism in the UK? O yes...

Black people are now eight times more likely to be stopped and searched by the police than white people, the BBC has learned.

Mr Bewry, a Health and Safety officer got stopped 16 times in 2 years.

Mr Bewry's lawyer said there were 1,700 black people living in Norfolk and 219 were stopped and searched in one year. This represented nearly 13%.

By contrast, the figure for stop and search for white men was less than 2%, he said.



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Message 64/79                 Date: 07-Nov-02  @  07:29 AM   -   RE: Human Rights Watch

influx

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stop and search?

wtf?

man...

almost sounds WORSE there!!!!!



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Message 65/79                 Date: 07-Nov-02  @  08:05 AM   -   RE: Human Rights Watch

psylichon

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"when i was kid in u.k."

xoxos, that reminds me of something I've wanted to ask you since I first heard your music. Do you have an accent or is just your singing style?

psylichon



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Message 66/79                 Date: 07-Nov-02  @  08:09 AM   -   RE: Human Rights Watch

Zazza

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influx: yeah, stop and search, aka the 'suss' laws were the cause of the riots in inner city london in '81.

'Black while driving' is also an apparent cause for stop and search...



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Message 67/79                 Date: 07-Nov-02  @  08:33 AM   -   RE: Human Rights Watch

influx

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irvine

now see..that is just WRONG.



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Message 68/79                 Date: 07-Nov-02  @  08:42 AM   -   RE: Human Rights Watch

psylichon

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"irvine

now see..that is just WRONG."

flux, weren't you the one bitching about using real names on here? :}

psylichon



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Message 69/79                 Date: 07-Nov-02  @  09:13 AM   -   RE: Human Rights Watch

influx

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first. I dont bich

second

IRVINE is the name of a fucking TOWN you hippy! 

a town that is infamous for "DWB" stories.



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Message 70/79                 Date: 07-Nov-02  @  09:17 AM   -   RE: Human Rights Watch

psylichon

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ah, ok

well, just kiss my ass then  

psylichon



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Message 71/79                 Date: 07-Nov-02  @  09:22 AM   -   RE: Human Rights Watch

influx

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no thanks.

but if youre in Irvine dont be black, ok? but..its QUITE ok to be asian.

now THAT is some fucked up shit! one "color" is bad, but another (cuz theyre smarter and all that you know) is ok.

phew.



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Message 72/79                 Date: 07-Nov-02  @  10:17 AM   -   RE: Human Rights Watch

Zazza

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In the UK, the asians get possibly a worse deal than people of african descent..

And the asians (indians/pakistanis/bangladeshis) and africans both get classified as 'black'

sigh...



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Message 73/79                 Date: 07-Nov-02  @  12:04 PM   -   RE: Human Rights Watch

xoxos

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born in tasmania, mum's welsh national, dad's u.s. born, euro oriented, 5 years in wales, 5 in s.e. u.k. 22 in western states. no, i don't try and sound like i'm this or that when singing generally (tho 50's rocknroll demands a bit of a twang)



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Message 74/79                 Date: 07-Nov-02  @  03:15 PM   -   RE: Human Rights Watch

99devils

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I think Influx is thinking "Asian" as in "Oriental", while you UK people tend to think of Asian as being Pakistani/Bangladeshi.. In the States they're usually not thought of as "Asian"

-Craig



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Message 75/79                 Date: 07-Nov-02  @  03:36 PM   -   RE: Human Rights Watch

Zazza

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What are they 'thought of' as? (in the US)



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Message 76/79                 Date: 07-Nov-02  @  04:01 PM   -   RE: Human Rights Watch

knowa

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apu



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Message 77/79                 Date: 07-Nov-02  @  04:28 PM   -   RE: Human Rights Watch

nomad

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in silicon valley (lived there 4 years and might be going back), whites are now officially a minority (largest minority but only 49% white according to census...) about 22% asian, 20% hispanic, but only like 4% black. and most of the blacks i knew were not US-born, but either french/english immigrants (you could tell by their accents   or pacific islanders (a few native africans as well i think). it seems like a very racially integrated area (i am now, and have been for a few years, the only white guy on my team at work, and it took me 6 months before i noticed) so i've never really understood it.



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Message 78/79                 Date: 08-Nov-02  @  12:28 AM   -   RE: Human Rights Watch

Zazza

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only 49%? damn japs..



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Message 79/79                 Date: 08-Nov-02  @  12:34 AM     Edit: 08-Nov-02  |  12:36 AM   -   RE: Human Rights Watch

Zazza

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.



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