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Subject: DJ´s get all defensive about this


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Original Message 1/62                 Date: 18-Aug-02  @  10:58 AM   -   DJ´s get all defensive about this

TIC

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well i have made electronic music for about 4 years (little more actually) and been into the music for about 6 years. And now i have decided that i have to learn how to dj so that i can offer both a live show and a dj set (prolly gets more gigs) but since i can´t really afford two decks and a real mixer i decided to use what i the stuff i already have ie my laptop. So i got myself a copy of Traktor (liked that software best) and started to learn how to mix. after about six months i could put together a pretty decent set (not just my opinion a guy i know who has been dj @ docklands also thougth so) well anyway i have gotten a lot of shit from diffrent dj´s who almost refuse talking to me about dj stuff just because i use a laptop. Some say it is to easy to learn how to dj on them (automatic beat matching automatic bpm calculation automatic syncing of bass drums on tracks) So i lied about my mixtape to a some people (said i had made it with two decks when it actually was just vinyls that i had recorded and then encoded to mp3) and then a got a much much warmer welcome until i told them that it was a mp3 set with Traktor ofcourse then they all claimed to have heard somthing wrong with it. Can some one plz explain why dj´s act this way?



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Message 2/62                 Date: 18-Aug-02  @  10:02 PM   -   RE: DJ´s get all defensive about this

proximus

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It's all gimmicks isn't it?  

In my mind it doesn't matter how the songs are mixed but I guess if you play live it looks better if you do it all on turntables, but on the other hand there are very many well known djs who use cd players and mp3s too..

And I agree with you, though not being an expert on dj'ing, it's pretty stupid when they say they heard the difference after you had told them the thruth. "there was something wrong with it".. yeah right  

Are you getting turntables? I want some.. just to mix at home and have fun   Traktor rules by the way



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Message 3/62                 Date: 19-Aug-02  @  03:26 PM   -   RE: DJ´s get all defensive about this

dissonance

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Why do djs get bent all out of shape...cause you aren't djing. you are mixing music, sure. but you aren't djing. And as far as hearing something wrong...well maybe they didn't hear anything "wrong" but maybe they did hear some shit that wouldn't have been to likely to be pulled off with decks.

Get some decks...play some records...get final scratch or something


dissonance



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Message 4/62                 Date: 19-Aug-02  @  07:29 PM   -   RE: DJ´s get all defensive about this

TiC

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well and here comes dissonance and proves my point well then please then tell me what djíng is all about cuz i thougt it was about mixing records not about turntables (and i u r a scratch dj then thats a totally different story and i understand u completly) i mix techno dnb and psycodelic trance (not at the same time  i also make these styles of music and have been doing so for about 4 years i know i am no vet but hardly a newbee. And during these years i have heard my fair share of mixtapes and live sets from many well known djs (my favorits include Planet BEN adam beyer dj anti and dj faceless) and i cant se anything that they do that i cant do with Traktor and my trusted lappy. I can even se stuff that would be nearly impossible to do of two decks that can be done in traktor but i must admit that it does not require half as much practice to learn those things. But it is still hard as hell to put together a fine pumpin trance set or a hard banging techno set or a jazzy moody dnb set
its not just about the skills for me. But u do have to have some skills to do a god job even when the songs beatmatch themselves. Like for example finding wich songs go good together wich songs go where in the set and also know the structure of your tracks (not mixing out in a build up and stuff like that)



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Message 5/62                 Date: 19-Aug-02  @  07:58 PM   -   RE: DJ´s get all defensive about this

influx

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they feel threatened because theirs is hallowed ground. ALL HAIL THE SUPERSTAR DJ!!!!

its NOT the same thing...but I find it amusing how DJs would behave as though they are having something taken from them, when 90% of them STILL dont acknowledge the faceless producers behind the music

funny thing is..if you take your laptop then that group of STUPID fucks who thing DJs are actually making the music as they go will probably expand since with a laptop itll look even more so.

my thoughts? WHO CARES what DJs think



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Message 6/62                 Date: 20-Aug-02  @  06:34 AM   -   RE: DJ´s get all defensive about this

TiC

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well they are after all part of the scene and there opinions count wheter we like it or not. And lots of producers get all defensive about the software vs hardware debate. But at least i have can easily tell u why i dont think u make new music with ejay. But djs does not seem to have any real answer



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Message 7/62                 Date: 20-Aug-02  @  08:28 AM   -   RE: DJ´s get all defensive about this

psylichon

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Anytime you have an art with history, you're going to get purist diehard wankers who tell you "you suck" when you do the same shit they're doing, only in a newer, faster, and easier way. I've seen it in every area of the music industry.

I say fuck 'em.

I'll also say I love the sound of Vinyl. But if you're just making a set and not scratching, vinyl's a hassle.

Get it on plastic however you fucking can, my man, and just smile when they bob their heads.

I put a rubber band on my crossfader when I scratch, and I can do crazy shit that guys who have played all their lives can't do. See, Mr. DJ, I'm using vinyl, but not the way you do! Aren't I a poser!?!

By not having to focus on the crossfader so much, it's allowed me to explore rhythms that would be just too complicated without a rubber band. By not focusing on technicalities like beat matching, it frees your mind up to be more creative. Fuck what they say.

psylichon

You think George Martin ever said, "We really shouldn't do it this way, no one else ever has...."...?



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Message 8/62                 Date: 20-Aug-02  @  08:46 AM   -   RE: DJ´s get all defensive about this

Drop

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"...but I find it amusing how DJs would behave as though they are having something taken from them, when 90% of them STILL dont acknowledge the faceless producers behind the music".

What a load of pony Influx. YOu don't read the music press. DJ's are constantly supplying "top ten" charts to the magazines. Also, they are constantly praising producers in the record review sections, etc.

Come on INflux you know this :-)



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Message 9/62                 Date: 20-Aug-02  @  06:37 PM   -   RE: DJ´s get all defensive about this

influx

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that has only started recently. and they still act like rock stars most of em

I dont dislike DJs, I just dont see why people want to suck their dicks so badly



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Message 10/62                 Date: 20-Aug-02  @  08:38 PM   -   RE: DJ´s get all defensive about this

Mindspawn

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The reaction folks get for "unothodox" DJing (DJ=disc jockey, CD is a disc, eh? a h/d platter is a disc, eh?) is like psylichon says. Same thing happened when arps and MIDI sequencers first came out. Musos were screaming "foul!!" an' it's not real music, it's not etc., etc. And basically it comes down to fear usually. As long as the shit rocks a crowd, who cares how you do it?

In my own experience, DJs have always given me a good deal of respect. They're usually very interested in my rig when I do live PAs. They may make snide remarks behind my back, I dunno... I've heard some shit here and there, but for the most part, the gents I've dealt with have been pretty good to me.



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Message 11/62                 Date: 20-Aug-02  @  09:40 PM   -   RE: DJ´s get all defensive about this

TiC

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Well i cant argue with the fact that djs give me credit for the music that i make. Infact its mostly from djs that i get praise at all for my music but thats beside the point i am trying to make here
(well if the shit rocks the crowd and u claim to have made it all by yourself when this is not actually the case at least i think its wrong people should get cred when they deserve it i even give cred to the people that make the presets i use on my nordrack2)



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Message 12/62                 Date: 20-Aug-02  @  09:43 PM   -   RE: DJ´s get all defensive about this

TiC

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the last part of my message was OT just so u know



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Message 13/62                 Date: 21-Aug-02  @  06:18 AM   -   RE: DJ´s get all defensive about this

dissonance

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Don't fucking lump me with "that" group.

It's not my fault that you shouldn't call yourself a djay, if you use traktor...and only traktor. Sorry. That's just the way it is. You aren't playing records, you are not djaying. Like I clearly stated before, you ARE mixing music and can employ alot of the same principles...planning your set...beat matching. I'm not trying to sound like an elitist or some shit...it's just that if you aren't playing records...you're not djaying.

I have the utmost respect for the cats that pump out the tracks that I play. I get a copy of pongoid's tracks when they come out on vinyl. I always make sure that when anyone asks what that was that I was playing, I let them know. Ohh that was my friend Pongoid, or that was Delay 04. Or that was Abe Duque's new shit...Joell Mull. Whoever.

Now I saw Ape play in Springfield MA...some fucking kid came up to me and asked..."Hey, what's that?" Now this is with two 15x20 screens with a projection of Obis and Ape playing with their gear, clearly visible on them. Fucking retard. "Well, they're not playing records."

dissonance



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Message 14/62                 Date: 21-Aug-02  @  07:22 AM   -   RE: DJ´s get all defensive about this

TiC

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well then i would like to talk with the guy who is resposible for me not being able to call myself dj when using traktor then cuz if it is not u dissonance then who is it?
and if i get myself a record player and a mixer and hook that up to my lappy with traktor would i become a dj then ?



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Message 15/62                 Date: 21-Aug-02  @  09:38 AM   -   DJ="Disk" jockey

Alan

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Disk meaning records. While I agree, as long as you move a crowd, I don't care if you are beating 2 sticks together, you are doing a good job. The point they are making is, part of the "art" of Djing involves beat matching 2 records, cds, etc. and mixing levels and Eqs of each to create a seamless sound. If a computer program is doing all of that for you and you are just picking what tracks to play, you are taking most of the process away. Not that it is right, wrong, better, worse, good, or bad. Just is.
Don't care what people think, and enjoy it.



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Message 16/62                 Date: 21-Aug-02  @  11:19 AM   -   RE: DJ´s get all defensive about this

TiC

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since there is no real AI yet the only thing this program is capable of is to beat match (ie put the base transients on top of each other) and this does not even work very well. As for the mixing levels they can be automated but this is easier to do your self. But of course the eqs are not. And who would like automate them anyway. My point is that i could do it exactly the same way as any normal cd dj but i also have a few extras (like automatic beat matching) but then that would say that what differentiates me from a "real dj" is that he has "real records" and that he beatmatches his records
have i summed u up



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Message 17/62                 Date: 21-Aug-02  @  01:40 PM     Edit: 21-Aug-02  |  01:43 PM   -   RE: DJ´s get all defensive about this

Steve Roughley

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I know many Djs and producers alike, and I can tell you one thing for sure. When any artist, DJ or producer, gets defensive about new and different s#@t comming on the scene it is partly that they are closed-minded, but mainly because they feel threatened, perhaps that their talent or favorite form of art (i.e. DJing with truntables) is at risk or something. This is completely understandable and I don't hold it against them. But it does look bad when there are other artists who are very open minded about new ideas.

Regards.

Steve.



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Message 18/62                 Date: 21-Aug-02  @  02:26 PM   -   RE: DJ´s get all defensive about this

TiC

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well as i said i get defensive when people tell me that they have made a tune with say e-jay and that is because i know that all they have made is a remix of some loops that some one else made (ie not like some clever samplists but that is a whole topic in itself) and since those types of software is not exactly known for great flexibility u know they havent relly done something original at all. But with djing software like Traktor i am doing exactly the same stuff as u (or at least could do) its just a little easier to get into. But some stuff u can still only do with the "real deal" like scratching or advaced techno and house mixing (this can of course be done it just is not any easier with Traktor than with turntables) so i see no real difference



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Message 19/62                 Date: 21-Aug-02  @  03:05 PM     Edit: 21-Aug-02  |  03:06 PM   -   RE: DJ´s get all defensive about this

Steve Roughley

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I don't worry about e-jay users. I don't think you can view e-jay as a production application. It is basically a mixing tool for pre-produced audio. Kind of like DJing (similar concept), hence the name.

Regards.

Steve.



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Message 20/62                 Date: 21-Aug-02  @  03:53 PM   -   RE: DJ´s get all defensive about this

TIC

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well i think u missed my point but share my opinion
the point was sometimes it is okay to get all defensive when some one is actually taking something away from u but i cant understand what it is that i am taking away from the djs except the fact that i do not have to work as hard to learn the basics of mixing techniques (the technical side of things like beat matching and cheking my levels) its like i should start to critizise (spelling?) some one for not using a hardware setup like me (it is easier to make music with softwar but impossible to play it live so thats why i stick to hardware and reaktor3 but now there is ableton too)



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Message 21/62                 Date: 21-Aug-02  @  06:27 PM   -   RE: DJ´s get all defensive about this

Mindspawn

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Well, to save face for the "art" of DJing, just call yourself a mixdog or something, so as not to confuse vinyl "discs" with all those other discs... Then noone will whine when they get they're fragile artistic egos stepped on... Long live FLEMs!!!!!!!!!!!

Honestly, why is it important to call yourself a DJ anyway? That make what you do cooler...?

..and before anyone gets their panties in a bunch, I could really care less, just bein' devil's advocate... well actually, I am the devil... but I do advocate, so....

Peace



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Message 22/62                 Date: 21-Aug-02  @  07:22 PM   -   RE: DJ´s get all defensive about this

dissonance

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Fuck it...if you want to use all these different media types...purchase a fucking "Final Scratch" and call it a day. That way you peserve the artform as well as increase you ability to use new stuff. Want to mix mp3's, fine. Use "Final Scratch" and throw down. If the you aren't employing two decks and a mixer, you are not djaying.

It's like the stupid fuck on the radio that uses some software to mix tracks during the "non-stop" dance mix. I called the guy up, "when did you guys start mixing?" "Well....I'm using some software to do it for me..." "OHH, okay then. You aren't djaying?" "No I'm not djaying, I'm using computer software to mix music"

Point being, you are mixing music. You just aren't djaying. Mixdawg.

dissonance



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Message 23/62                 Date: 21-Aug-02  @  07:36 PM   -   RE: DJ´s get all defensive about this

selma

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just tell 'em you drive a traktor and to get the hell out of your way.



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Message 24/62                 Date: 21-Aug-02  @  09:31 PM   -   RE: DJ´s get all defensive about this

TiC

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yesss i am the worlds first mixdawg and no i dont want to call myself dj so that other people will think i am cool just so people will understand that i mix music live but to hell with it i am a FLEM at heart so let the djs do there stuff and i will do mine (and some times there stuff to but not as a dj no as a mixdawg) is every one happy?
US MIXDAWGS DRIVE TRAKTOR STEP ASIDE DJ´S



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Message 25/62                 Date: 21-Aug-02  @  10:06 PM   -   RE: DJ´s get all defensive about this

influx

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oh lord. this is gonna get pretty funny

dissonance..I didnt think you would be one to flip out over something like this



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Message 26/62                 Date: 21-Aug-02  @  10:45 PM   -   RE: DJ´s get all defensive about this

dissonance

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well, I don't think that I'm flipping out. I'm just adament about it. I could give a shit really what this cat does. Let him spin cds on his johnson if he wants. That's cool. It's just a matter of being accurate. That's the same as people who program cds on the radio station. I asked a guy at 94.5 in Boston, a hiphop station...and that's a stretch...anyhow. I asked him if he played records. He says no and that he's not a djay, he's a radio personality.

Now I'm not equating one with the other. I'm simply pointing out that he figures that if he's not playing records, he's not a djay.

That being said.

Do your thing. Shit if you want put a link up to one of these mixes so I can give it an ear. I'd like to listen to it, especially if you play some stuff that I like.


dissonance



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Message 27/62                 Date: 21-Aug-02  @  10:49 PM   -   RE: DJ´s get all defensive about this

dissonance

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and there's the link for my page with two of my sets on it. All live with every imperfection present like it was thrown down.

Also present are some meger attempts at some Techno and HipHop. Need lots of work, and haven't made anything new in three or four months.



dissonance



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Message 28/62                 Date: 22-Aug-02  @  10:12 PM   -   RE: DJ´s get all defensive about this

Mindspawn

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Sorry if I seemed to step on yer toes dissonance, I was just stirrin' shit... I didna mean naught by it. I DO think you're taking it all a bit too close to heart, just an opinion... It'd be kinda like me going off if someone DID call me a DJ... that actually happens a lot... go figure... an' it used to upset me, but what's the point of gettin' twisted over it? You do what you do, eh? That's yer art... not some categorized pigeon hole that is only a name for yer art... I dunna care anymore what others call what I do, it's my art whether you call it FLEM, DJ, or nose-picking, least that's my take. Not my job to educate or categorize... Yer mileage may vary....

However, seems "mixdawgs on tractors" has smoothed out the ruff bits so we can all play nice again, eh?



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Message 29/62                 Date: 23-Aug-02  @  06:37 AM   -   RE: DJ´s get all defensive about this

TiC

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well its always nice to discuss stuff but the fact that whatever i chose to call my self certain party organizers will not let me mix music at parties still remains
anyone got something smart that i can say to these persons?



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Message 30/62                 Date: 23-Aug-02  @  07:04 AM   -   RE: DJ´s get all defensive about this

dissonance

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nah...I can't really think of anything...you'd have a tough time..that is for sure.


dissonance



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Message 31/62                 Date: 23-Aug-02  @  10:39 AM   -   RE: DJ´s get all defensive about this

influx

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give it time. I mean...I dunno...whatever youre doin, do it well, and do your best to excel...right?

dont be a chump follower and you've at least taken a step in the right direction

hey mindspawn..Im gonna call what you do NOSEPICKIN, ok?



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Message 32/62                 Date: 23-Aug-02  @  02:04 PM   -   RE: DJ´s get all defensive about this

TiC

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well i think i will go with what u say influx perhaps even try to promote my own party and mix music there i have friends that are "real djs" and friends that make electronic music so i guess we will try and put something together in the future



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Message 33/62                 Date: 23-Aug-02  @  03:35 PM   -   RE: DJ´s get all defensive about this

Mindspawn

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You can definitely call what I do "NOSEPICKIN." It's been said I'm something of a prodigy in that area... maybe even a bona-fide virtuoso...=)



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Message 34/62                 Date: 23-Aug-02  @  06:20 PM   -   RE: DJ´s get all defensive about this

selma

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"techno" as in "technology" or as in "technophobic"?

don't techno for an answer/ants in your pants or you're that good a dancer?

hootin'n'hollerin'



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Message 35/62                 Date: 24-Aug-02  @  01:37 AM   -   RE: DJ´s get all defensive about this

k

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ahem.. i'll just add for anyone reading who doesnt know, if you signup choosing 'deejay' user type from the selector, then you can add some streaming dj sets in lo-fi bandwidth.. you can add quite a long mix 40 minutes say depnding on bandwidth, ok sorry to butt in but y'know, mebbe some people lurking might not know about it... good thread btw

___________________________________

I had an idea for a script once. It's basically Jaws except when the guys in the boat are going after Jaws, they look around and there's an even bigger Jaws. The guys have to team up with Jaws to get Bigger Jaws.... I call it... Big Jaws!!!



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Message 36/62                 Date: 24-Aug-02  @  06:47 AM   -   RE: DJ´s get all defensive about this

d

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some of those might be done with traktor and not 'decks' so you should call 'em nosepickin sets or mixdawg sets but not dj* sets.

*pronounced dee-hay



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Message 37/62                 Date: 24-Aug-02  @  08:32 AM   -   RE: DJ´s get all defensive about this

bedwyr

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any mixes i've done for dt have been done in cheatin' wavelab.

technofear it is, no doubt. funny, for a music that likes to think of itself as futuristic, 909 808 303 say no more.



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Message 38/62                 Date: 25-Aug-02  @  12:21 PM   -   RE: DJ´s get all defensive about this

influx

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anyone ever hear Bile's "technowhore"?

damn. heavy.

and Im listening to this maarten traack aand it sounds really mean

but a bit overcompressed



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Message 39/62                 Date: 25-Aug-02  @  08:53 PM   -   RE: DJ´s get all defensive about this

xoxos

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^ like that?

something smart? disk jockey. with a 'k' instead of a 'c,' as in 'hard disk.'

no offense dis but that's the beauty of language.. it adapts.

as for me, the first person that says "i'm a mixdog" in my proximity is going to receive a concussion.



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Message 40/62                 Date: 26-Aug-02  @  01:51 AM   -   RE: DJ´s get all defensive about this

influx

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nope thats not it

a band called Bile did an album called Technowhore..or maybe teknowhore? cant remember

there was some MEAN shit on there!



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Message 41/62                 Date: 26-Aug-02  @  01:52 AM   -   RE: DJ´s get all defensive about this

influx

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nope thats not it

a band called Bile did an album called Technowhore..or maybe teknowhore? cant remember

there was some MEAN shit on there!

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=901362093

what a coinkydink



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Message 42/62                 Date: 27-Aug-02  @  11:07 PM   -   RE: DJ´s get all defensive about this

Brett

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it comes down to credebility. when people see decks, they know for damn sure you are actually doing the mixing. A laptop could be a little cheat box they think it's all pre-recorded, or even worse in mp3 software you can enter the BMP of all the tracks in the playlist, and then just pick cue points and it will sync for you. You just start and stop or work the crossfader. Dont really see a newbie getting recognized for it. Now if you were some big hyped up act with compilations out, people will pay to see you play a jam box! And leave thinking it was the best live show they had ever seen. I am kidding here, but it comes down to perception. You are new and you need to proove yourself in the gene before embarking on a new form of "dj'ing" that hasn't gained it's place yet. Trust me, mixing on cd's, tables, and mp3 all have diferant feel. If you learn this Tracktor way don't expect vinyl to be the same. you will need to adapt you skills. It is easy for someone who has spun forever to do them all, but nothing prepares you for the live gig but the live gig. the sound some time shit and so loud you think you head is going to explode, or the delays drive you nuts so you have to crank the monitor to drowned them out and you hurt you ears. people bump the decks and now you are skipping etc etc etc. goodluck with whatever you are doing.



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Message 43/62                 Date: 28-Aug-02  @  08:21 AM   -   RE: DJ´s get all defensive about this

TiC

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well brett i must say well spoken and i can prolly agree with u there
but what is wrong with entering the bpm in the playlist (my friend always writes down the bpm on the sleves to his records)
and what is wrong with saving a few good cue points in a track this way u can work much faster
and do some stuff u normaly can´t (like some crazy loopin and stuff with the same track on both decks and cue up the next track in the 10s or so thats left)
by the way u should all read the interveiw with plastikman on the future music web site



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Message 44/62                 Date: 29-Aug-02  @  01:07 PM   -   RE: DJ´s get all defensive about this

milan

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i'd have something to say on the subject, but fortunately i'm still on holiday :P

Cheers, M.



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Message 45/62                 Date: 29-Aug-02  @  02:42 PM   -   RE: DJ´s get all defensive about this

beds

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holidays are for wimps



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Message 46/62                 Date: 29-Aug-02  @  04:38 PM   -   RE: DJ´s get all defensive about this

dissonance

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Richie Hawtin...aka PlaistikMan....lives and dies by the Final Scratch...nuff said.


dissonance



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Message 47/62                 Date: 29-Aug-02  @  07:15 PM   -   RE: DJ´s get all defensive about this

Drop

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Thats cos Richie Hawtin and John Aquavia are beeing paid to road test it! Final Scratch is for producers like Chris Cowie who can't DJ!



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Message 48/62                 Date: 30-Aug-02  @  04:22 PM   -   RE: DJ´s get all defensive about this

dissonance

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Explain how Final Scratch is for producers that can't DJAY?

In actuality...it forces one to djay. It doesn't mix or match beats for you...it's a control interface. It allows you to play mp3's or wavs..or a couple other formats of digital music using vinyl as the base of control.

How that is for "producers that can't djay" is beyond me.


dissonance



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Message 49/62                 Date: 30-Aug-02  @  05:32 PM   -   RE: DJ´s get all defensive about this

Pongoid

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I used to get all bent out of shape on method, and sometimes still do, but the bottom line is this, at least in my book: You send promoters a mix of tunes. If they like it, they book you to play a mix. Whatever you're mixing, you mix, however you do it, you do it. If you're mixing it live and on the spot, then fuck the heavy vinyl carrying fools (of which I am one from time to time). OK, so the software matches transient. That IS convenient, but the method is secondary to the results. I'd rather hear a DAT of good music than perfectly executed live shit music, or sloppy mixing, but that's me.



I used to think that bringing a computer to a gig was weak. I learned that there are ways to PLAY music with them in a live fashion, so I got woken up, and now don't hate on them so badly. HOWEVER, I never got over folks trying to bullshit me or others when they are just mixing whatever, and trying to play it off as a live set. I've got a friend who uses Ableton Live in combination with records, and that I'd playing a hybrid live set, cuz it's interspersing it with others' records, and I'm all for doing it to make a good set of music. The thing is being honest in what you do. You don't have to advertise about it, but be honest if folks ask, and don't advertise falsely. Ok, my two cents.

Ape



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Message 50/62                 Date: 30-Aug-02  @  06:26 PM   -   RE: DJ´s get all defensive about this

selma

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what a sensible $.02

I would add that if you're digital mixing, you owe it to the music to exploit the medium and try stuff that couldn't be done on 1200's.



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Message 51/62                 Date: 30-Aug-02  @  06:50 PM   -   RE: DJ´s get all defensive about this

Pongoid

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certainly. Why let technology limit you? Use it. Do stuff with it that you can't do with other tools. That's why you have it in the first place, right?


Ape



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Message 52/62                 Date: 30-Aug-02  @  07:29 PM   -   RE: DJ´s get all defensive about this

Drop

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Have any of you actually used it or are you just quoting shit from magazines?



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Message 53/62                 Date: 31-Aug-02  @  05:54 PM   -   RE: DJ´s get all defensive about this

TIC

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i have used "that shit"(Traktor) and i am not quoting from a magazine. I have not played it live yet (but i have played live with my own music)and personally i have the experience that djs that dont produce or try to produce there own music are somewhat lacking in there skills



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Message 54/62                 Date: 01-Sep-02  @  04:13 PM   -   RE: DJ´s get all defensive about this

BJT

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DJs are a funny breed, I've met some absolute champs and also some absolute idiots. Basically playing infront of people requires guts and some overcome there nerves purely by the fact that they love the music there playing, others purely by their amazing but simple ego's.



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Message 55/62                 Date: 01-Sep-02  @  08:24 PM   -   RE: DJ´s get all defensive about this

Pongoid

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I've used traktor live, for smaller parties, and it's fun. It's easy to use. It's not vinyl, but it's neat, it sometimes mixies things in ways you wouldn't expect things to go together as well. I have friends that use it a LOT more than me, and I have no qualms about folks using it. I think it's great to mix whatever mediums you can for a performance...mp3's, CDs, Vinyl, live gear, "traditional" electric and acoustic instruments, ADATs of sound captures, VCRs, homemade experimental insturments (WWWAAAAYYYY COOOOOL)whatever, as long as it fits in the context of the presentation, and helps convey the feelings the performers are trying to express. Fuck it, why not? DJ ego cuz it's not purely on vinyl?? Whatever, folks, it's all just tools to get the message out there. Make art out of science, not science out of art.

On a quick tangent, my muhfukka, dissonance let me check out this turtablist conference video, and it was absolutely dope watchin Q-bert and D-styles swappin eights of just "the fresh" and "the ahh" over some fat little electro groove, but at the same time, in explaining the history of turntablism, they were totally caught up in technical tricks, almost like finger and crossfader olympics, and although talked a little about notatating things, they seemed to not have too much theoretical knowledge about the rymic concepts and approaches they had to their note placement and phrasing in their performances, and it kinda irked me, like it was Important Art, and although they were breaking ground, without a doubt, they were also just using a lot of theoretical knowledge applied in new ways that has been around a long time, and has been applied elsewhere. I'd like to see more turntablists with "traditional" music education in their backgrounds as well, so that they get less lost in the instrument and techniques, and more into exactly what they are doing musically. Watchin those cats swappin eights was definately the highlight of the tape for me, as it should a real Jazz ethic of improv and call and response thru manipulating samples in a really artistic way, so I can see where some pride is taken in turntablism, but if you're just pulling together a program of music, and matching a couple beats, and maybe cutting the bass of one track, whille mixing and cutting the next one in, and maybe backspinning or braking out of the first one, I don't know what DJ's have to be incensed about, by folks using a digital medium and integrating it into a showcase of recorded music, and besides, if it's your own music to boot, fuck them, that's the shit right there. I have a few records out now, and I take no shame in dropping most of a set of just my own records, burns of tunes, and mp3's and working them in ways I hadn't before. If you're doing it with traktor, or interspersing things that aren't pressed, or you can't find, but still want to get out there, by all means go on with at least my blessings and hopefully others' as well.


Ape

Ape



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Message 56/62                 Date: 02-Sep-02  @  04:37 AM   -   RE: DJ´s get all defensive about this

influx

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"Make art out of science, not science out of art"

damn pongoid..you break off some incredibly precise bits of wisdome sometimes!



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Message 57/62                 Date: 02-Sep-02  @  07:18 PM   -   RE: DJ´s get all defensive about this

TiC

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well pongoid that pretty much sums it up then and may i quote u on that "Make art out of science, not science out of art" part cuz that hits the spot for me
and finally now i have some good ways to put words across to my antagonists when they try to make me look bad infront of others and tell them that what i do is just crap cuz i use traktor its not about me trying to look good its about other people trying there best to make me look bad



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Message 58/62                 Date: 03-Sep-02  @  05:43 AM   -   RE: DJ´s get all defensive about this

Pongoid

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*folds hands and bows



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Message 59/62                 Date: 05-Sep-02  @  06:41 PM     Edit: 05-Sep-02  |  06:50 PM   -   RE: DJ´s get all defensive about this

dissonance

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for those interested.....that video that APE mentioned is SkratchCon 2000 Volume 2.

Very good stuff...and holy shit can D Styles and QBert get down.

on another note.

there's a video of these two cats..Excess and ToadStyle getting down. The shit they're doing with a foot controled phrase sampler and some records is pretty impressive. Give it a viewing.

fuck..I'll have to post it later..can't find the link

okay here are the links...hispeed and otherwise

low=http://www.styluswars.com/multimedia/turntablist_lounge/real/episode5lo.ram

hi=http://www.styluswars.com/multimedia/turntablist_lounge/real/episode5hi.ram




dissonance



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Message 60/62                 Date: 05-Sep-02  @  09:43 PM   -   RE: DJ´s get all defensive about this

swanofnever

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just have to clear this up:

' You think George Martin ever said, "We really shouldn't do it this way, no one else ever has...."...? '

YES!! he did! but john et al would just do it anyway till he finally gave up and went along with it. i cite, as one example out of many, the mic'ing on eleanor rigby.

raigan



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Message 61/62                 Date: 06-Sep-02  @  05:36 PM   -   RE: DJ´s get all defensive about this

Drop

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Ok, ok! Your right! I just hope we still see vinyl in 5 years.



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Message 62/62                 Date: 12-Sep-02  @  08:39 AM   -   RE: DJ´s get all defensive about this

djjessex

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dont get me started on djs again. I love alot of them, hate most of them. Really good Djs deserve every ounce of credit for they are on the level. They spin producers music, give them props for it, and acknowledge them when somebody asks." who wrote that"

What I hate is how they muscle us out of the scene that we are responsible for. Hell we need a union! We need to go on strike! With out us they would rot in hell.

As far as using sofware to mix, I recommend tables. If you ever want to dj at club and raves. They usually have their own decks at the site, and would look at you funny if you showed up with no records and a lappy. Get real man, you already know we are right, get over it. Kudos for your cool mixes on traktor, Im happy for you. And the Djs that saw probs only after you told them, that just shows you how conceited and egotistical most DJs are. Fuck em!

Those who cant play...DJ!



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