Original Message 1/45                 Date: 23-Jun-02  @  10:56 AM   -   Influx needs some help

who else

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OK here's the deal.

almost 2 years ago I worked on a track with this guy. Without breaking it down to numbers the work was mostly me. My studio, my engineering, MY time for the most part (I think he spent 2 maybe 3 days at my pad?)

so...every time he left, I would go back in and tighten shit up...cuz this guy wanted to put every single idea he ever had into ONE track...

eventually I said LOOK this is DONE for now, but I dont want it public.

he wanted otherwise but I said NO. Its not ready, my style isnt ready, the mix aint right blah blah blah

well, it turns out he went and got it released. Financed on his own (someone else apparently paid for it) and it has sold close to 500 copies(? not sure on the exact number)

I just got an email from a friend who pointed out that Release in Canada has it...which means it has gotten around, you know?

thing is..the guy changed the title, and my name is NOT on it AT ALL

he ing calls me "nflux" in the promo he sent out, says I've worked with Uberzone, etc...which is just wack.

I dont know what to do. Im not worried about money but the thought of someone slighting me in this way just makes me want to revert back to the old days where my fists were my means of communication

WHAT DO I DO? please help me before I just kick this dudes ass!!! I cant tell if he's truly a swindler or just not aware of what he is doing!!!!!

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Message 2/45                 Date: 23-Jun-02  @  11:20 AM   -   RE: Influx needs some help

Maarten

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You obviously know who he is, can you track him down? I say use violence first, ask questions later 'cause what 'evidence' do you have that you've even worked on the track? Fucked up though...

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Message 3/45                 Date: 23-Jun-02  @  11:22 AM   -   RE: Influx needs some help

bedwyr

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why don't you phone him up?

thing is, what sort of outcome do you want? do you want to stop him selling it? or just put the credit right? (along with $)

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Message 4/45                 Date: 23-Jun-02  @  11:23 AM   -   RE: Influx needs some help

Steve Roughley

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I have had this happen to me as well. Its sooooo bloody frustrating! Obviously, the first thing you should do is approach him about it. If that turns up no results you can take him to court for copyright infringement. You do not need to pay copyright fees for anything that you create and as you have the original material on your studio you will win! Even if he changed the name, etc.

I ended up taking a bloke, who did something very similar, to small claims court and was awarded the full profits, which left him in debt. But best of all, he now has a criminal record! He won't be doing it again! I know this sounds mean, but remember this stopped him from doing this to anyone else!

Hope this helps!

Steve.

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Message 5/45                 Date: 23-Jun-02  @  11:26 AM   -   RE: Influx needs some help

influx

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europe on point!!!!

sure I have the original as midi files on my PC! dated and everything!

thing is..I HAVE contacted him and he swears up and down that no money is being made, etc...

like I said..Im not looking for money, but IF money was made then it is rightfully MINE since the song is mine. he did help, and would of course have partial rights to the track, but BARELY

nothing legal was ever done, and the damn thing was NOT supposed to be PUBLIC dammit! I didnt feel that it was ready

I have to sue him? be a part of this bullshit legal system?

crap

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Message 6/45                 Date: 23-Jun-02  @  11:37 AM   -   RE: Influx needs some help

Maarten

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You don't have to, you can also follow my advise and bitch-slap him you know  ... otherwise, sue him!

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Message 7/45                 Date: 23-Jun-02  @  11:38 AM   -   RE: Influx needs some help

Maarten

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... and comment on my track goddamnit!

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Message 8/45                 Date: 23-Jun-02  @  11:41 AM   -   RE: Influx needs some help

bedwyr

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Someone's making money somewhere. Cheeky fucker, go kick his head in.

If it's selling then people like it. If he puts a proper credit for you and he sells any more then that's a good thing for you surely? You're not going to be able to stop him doing another 500 if he wants, criminal record or not, so make the most of it for yourself, maybe.

Do you still think it's not worthy of release?

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Message 9/45                 Date: 23-Jun-02  @  11:43 AM   -   RE: Influx needs some help

influx

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no. I dont. not really. the quality is POOP.

what I was thinking of doing was releasing a better mix of it. the "proper" mix...would be a nice non-violent "bitch slap" no?

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Message 10/45                 Date: 23-Jun-02  @  12:09 PM   -   RE: Influx needs some help

steve

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I remember you talking about this bloke before.

Dont really have much to offer other than caving his head in seems like an attractive proposition. Surely uberzone will be none too happy either about his name being used to flog a record? Hes a snake, so you obviously need to sort him out one way or another.....

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Message 11/45                 Date: 23-Jun-02  @  12:20 PM   -   RE: Influx needs some help

sitar

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I'll be right over so you can help me put a track together.

I'd take the court system way. At least make a call to see what's involved and how your rights can be restored.

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Message 12/45                 Date: 23-Jun-02  @  12:46 PM   -   RE: Influx needs some help

proximus

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Sorry to hear influx, I can imagine it must be frustrating. I'd try Steve's method first and if it doesn't work I would go kick the cheeky mother's head like bedwyr suggested :D

Anyway, I hope it works out for you, 'mate'

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Message 13/45                 Date: 23-Jun-02  @  03:01 PM     Edit: 23-Jun-02  |  03:04 PM   -   RE: Influx needs some help

Steve Roughley

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Even if he has made no money, he has breached the copyright laws that refer to ownership of intelectual property (IP). In other words he has stolen from you. Taking him to court or at least the threat of it might be pleasantly satisfying for you! And should teach him a lesson as well as getting your ownership rights sorted out!

You will not need to do very much yourself. Any material is instantly copyrighted as soon as it is fixed in some way (i.e. a final recording, music sheets on paper, etc). So if you can prove that you have ownership of the material (original MIDI files, etc.) then he has stolen from you and all that is left to do is speak to a solicitor. You should be able to get 15-30 minutes of free advice in which time I'm sure you will find it is a clear-cut case and it will get you in a lot less trouble than a fight!

Cheers!

Steve.

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Message 14/45                 Date: 23-Jun-02  @  03:10 PM   -   RE: Influx needs some help

Steve Roughley

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After my ordeal with copyright theft my solicitor sugested that one thing to do in the furture is, whenever I finish a track that I am completely satisfied with, record it to tape/CD and mail it to myself in a secure bag putting the stamps over the seal. When I get the package, I leave it unopened and this seals my copyright in stone if this ever happens again.

Steve.

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Message 15/45                 Date: 23-Jun-02  @  08:29 PM   -   RE: Influx needs some help

xoxos

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why don't you get your friend who does the record reviews to do a review of it, but fully crediting you, and perhaps giving the sordid details (readers *love* juicy details) (and perhaps mentioning your opinion of the track) right before you release something?? free advertising!

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Message 16/45                 Date: 24-Jun-02  @  06:44 PM   -   RE: Influx needs some help

Brett

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fuck him up!

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Message 17/45                 Date: 24-Jun-02  @  08:02 PM   -   RE: Influx needs some help

influx

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oh come on you guys! Do you really think I'm going to just go kick his ass?

I'm still trying to figure out if the guy was just overzealous or not. I have talked to him and will be checking his records out this week.

Im not going to "fuck him up" because then I am in the wrong and the law will look at ME. I have a record...nothing inside 10 years, but it will come up and I cant afford that shit.

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Message 18/45                 Date: 24-Jun-02  @  08:08 PM   -   RE: Influx needs some help

damballah

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thanks for not making me type the obvious.

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Message 19/45                 Date: 24-Jun-02  @  08:47 PM   -   RE: Influx needs some help

influx

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well then Damblahblah...what do you think?

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Message 20/45                 Date: 24-Jun-02  @  10:19 PM   -   RE: Influx needs some help

Mindspawn

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You have two choices, legal or not so legal. If you want to do it legal, you sue. Not much any other way to look at... If you go the "not so legal" path, you can go lots o' different directions, all of which will do nothing for what's already been done. Like you beat the dog to a pulp... it dunna matter, he's already done what he's done. The beating ain't gonna change that. Now if you want to get out your frustration, personally I enjoy peeling someone's eyelids, but that's just me....

Me opinion? Forget about it. Maybe send him a clear cease and desist, but aside from that, it'll cost you more to stress over it than to just let it go. Sucks, but methinks you know it, eh?

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Message 21/45                 Date: 24-Jun-02  @  10:44 PM   -   RE: Influx needs some help

influx

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well..to be honest Im not so worried about it

I just want proper credit, thats all.

and I dont like what he did...calling me part of this crew, etc.

whatever, I guess.

I think Im gonna still release a proper mix of it on my own or some shit

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Message 22/45                 Date: 25-Jun-02  @  08:12 PM   -   RE: Influx needs some help

xoxos

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do it! do it now! just release that fucker and people will be instantly interested after seeing the other one! they'll be like.. "ooh, it's a thing going on" because there's two records. like when an artist does more than one, you know?

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Message 23/45                 Date: 25-Jun-02  @  08:48 PM   -   RE: Influx needs some help

bedwyr

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BREAKS WARS!!!

like old hip hop answer records. go go go!

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Message 24/45                 Date: 25-Jun-02  @  08:58 PM   -   RE: Influx needs some help

influx

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thats the answer, innit. off to work I go!

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Message 25/45                 Date: 25-Jun-02  @  09:24 PM   -   RE: Influx needs some help

errata

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It sounds like the problem here is you're pissed that he did this when you didn't want it done. If you have a problem with it than the answer is already there. Do it the way it should be and get on with your life... or don't sweat it since you say it's bad! Just make him take your name off of it and let it go.

He probably does not agree that it was mostly you (that's how these things are, and it's never worth arguing about). So I'm sure he feels he's done nothing wrong. Getting pissed and smackin' him around is a waste of time and will come back to hurt you!

e

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Message 26/45                 Date: 25-Jun-02  @  10:29 PM   -   RE: Influx needs some help

influx

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if he tried to argue where the track truly came from I would just laugh. I know the truth. This isnt an ego thing...

there are two parts tho..A)he went too far with it (you should read the promo he sent out which says that I worked with UBERZONE) and B)he is SELLING it....and someone might be making money, but not me. Off MY stuff.

Im gonna do my own version. He called it Rolling Blackout, but I had called it Syntax Error. Any creative suggestions as to how to say "This is the proper mix of this other track you may have heard elsewhere"?

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Message 27/45                 Date: 25-Jun-02  @  11:14 PM   -   RE: Influx needs some help

Pongoid

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well, dig this. you have the MIDI files, right? All the samples, sequences and all that shit, right? Archive it onto a CD. Get it all copywritten, if he hasn't already.

He's just got the audio, right? If you hold the rights on the sounds and the components to meke the tune, and do a remix, or udate or whatever, then it serves to reason that you are covered.

Another thing, if you don't care about loot, then don't act like you do. You have worked with Q for years, even if it's sweeping his studio floor. Technically, the guy is RIGHT in that case. Now, he DOES have to credit you. Period. If not, then fuck the law, burn his house to the ground if he doesn't, or his car, or whatever, but make him hurt. Don't hurt anybody physically and don't get caught. Send me an email. If he's not hurting you, then take the publicity, and use every connection you have. Cut this self-conscious, self-abusive bullshit out. You've been at this a long time. Go ahead and succeed.

If this is just some stupid shit (and it sounds like it is, as you don't even like the tune)....then why are you dwelling on it? Pluck the tick, flush it down the toilet, and keep walking, but stay out of that patch of grass where you picked the tick up, and check yourself for others more frequently.

Now...get out there, and do your good shit, and for fucks sake, get into reality, and get out there on the fucking stage, Influx!!! Don't make me come down there, end up on your doorstep and physically fucking drag you kicking and screaming onto a stage to play. I'll do it. I'm not kidding.


Ape

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Message 28/45                 Date: 26-Jun-02  @  01:26 AM   -   RE: Influx needs some help

influx

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ahahahahah! pluck the tick.

youre right.

but:
"Cut this self-conscious, self-abusive bullshit out

what the fuck is that?

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Message 29/45                 Date: 26-Jun-02  @  02:50 AM   -   RE: Influx needs some help

Pongoid

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You have been doing this (music) for YEARS. PLAY OUT!!!


Ape

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Message 30/45                 Date: 26-Jun-02  @  04:01 AM   -   RE: Influx needs some help

influx

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no no..but what is self conscious and self abusive here?

and...what if it all came down to I didnt really WANT to "play live"?  it IS a hassle, and IS risky for gear..

(not really..I do want to..and do plan on it)

but where did self conscious and self abusive come from? Did you see me flogging myself shyly somewhere?;)

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Message 31/45                 Date: 26-Jun-02  @  04:23 AM   -   RE: Influx needs some help

Breakerbox

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I cant find the track on Releaserecords.com
I want to hear it...  

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Message 32/45                 Date: 26-Jun-02  @  05:31 AM   -   RE: Influx needs some help

influx

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I found it.

just search for "rolling blackout"...oh...just tried again and no dice...

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Message 33/45                 Date: 26-Jun-02  @  08:20 AM   -   RE: Influx needs some help

Breakerbox

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I think they are sold out dude... Is out here in seattle in the record store by any chance... even if it was... would you know about it.. probably not.. So I am stupid... So what?

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Message 34/45                 Date: 26-Jun-02  @  11:25 AM   -   RE: Influx needs some help

influx

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I have NO idea where its at, what it says, what it looks like, or even truly how it sounds!

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Message 35/45                 Date: 26-Jun-02  @  04:51 PM   -   RE: Influx needs some help

Mindspawn

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Ya know, I gotta say, maybe I'm gettin' old (well actually, of course I'm gettin' old...), but I have been having a really good time just working in the studio the last few months, no live gigs at all since February... It's an opportunity to do things I could never do live... I may even end up dropping the whole gig thing and just be a studio ho...

Just thinkin' out loud...

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Message 36/45                 Date: 26-Jun-02  @  06:49 PM   -   RE: Influx needs some help

errata

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Don't do it MindSpawn!!! You'll get lazy and fat and end up eating lotsa pizza and sampling late night theatre and writing John Tesh tunes and playing them for your girlfriend while she sleeps at 3 in the morning. i've seen it, it's ugly!!!

We need more FLEM's...

e

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Message 37/45                 Date: 26-Jun-02  @  11:59 PM   -   RE: Influx needs some help

Breakerbox

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yep... thats sounds like me.

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Message 38/45                 Date: 27-Jun-02  @  12:03 AM   -   RE: Influx needs some help

Breakerbox

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...except the john tesh part.

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Message 39/45                 Date: 27-Jun-02  @  12:20 PM   -   RE: Influx needs some help

sitar

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"breakbeats, not legs" is your motto.

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Message 40/45                 Date: 28-Jun-02  @  02:46 PM   -   RE: Influx needs some help

formant

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welcome to the world of dance music where everyone tries to feed their egos and wallets at others expense.

influx the underground is just as corrupt as the commercial crap.

you can see how hard it is to break 'into the scene' when you have great tracks. the reason for this is everyone clammoring over each other to try and enrich themselves, regardless the cost.

you should give all the samples out to the world wide web, dancetechers, etc

then it will look like he made his track off free samples on the web :-)

then you just deny all knowledge of it ha ha

jamey

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Message 41/45                 Date: 28-Jun-02  @  06:39 PM   -   RE: Influx needs some help

knowa

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Tesh-House.

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Message 42/45                 Date: 28-Jun-02  @  10:04 PM   -   RE: Influx needs some help

Breakerbox

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"breakbeats not legs" is my motto.. So Dave what happened? Did you talk to the guy?

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Message 43/45                 Date: 06-Jul-02  @  09:54 AM   -   RE: Influx needs some help

evil_little_dru

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very similer thing happened to me with 5 years of graphic design...well i left the band i was in and the asshole lead singer started a design company and is taking credit for 5 years of design that was all done by me...not im not into intellectual property or any of that but there is respect ya know anyway a friend pointed out to me that people who steal and bite off of others can never deliver a second time...so it may not help much but i feel ya-dru

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Message 44/45                 Date: 06-Jul-02  @  10:45 AM   -   RE: Influx needs some help

xoxos

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THAT is how you wave a towel  

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Message 45/45                 Date: 06-Jul-02  @  06:06 PM   -   RE: Influx needs some help

Mindspawn

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erratta - yer right o' course... except for the John Tesh bits... (what is it with the resistance to John Tesh...?}... Long live FLEMs!!!!!!!!

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