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Subject: How to mix your POP...


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Original Message 1/27                 Date: 13-May-02  @  06:19 PM   -   How to mix your POP...

Zink

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First of all, forget that this tutorial is how to mix a pop record - Don't let that prejudice you!

This tutorial is actually VERY useful and covers a lot of good practices and it's something we can all learn from. Apart from Brett and Influx.

;)

http://www.audiomelody.com/Tutorials/MixingIntroduction.htm

Let me know what you think...

Mooky.



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Message 2/27                 Date: 13-May-02  @  06:42 PM   -   RE: How to mix your POP...

damballah

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you're a pretty brave bastard ;)



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Message 3/27                 Date: 13-May-02  @  06:56 PM   -   RE: How to mix your POP...

Zink

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I know...


;)



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Message 4/27                 Date: 13-May-02  @  07:02 PM   -   RE: How to mix your POP...

influx

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is mixing a pop song any different than mixing anything else?

I think that article is OLD?

(not sure what you meant about "cept influx and Brett" tho)



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Message 5/27                 Date: 13-May-02  @  07:10 PM   -   RE: How to mix your POP...

Zink

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That article is really old, but nevertheless...


 

Not sure what I meant?? It was meant as kinda a compliment, I s'pose.



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Message 6/27                 Date: 13-May-02  @  07:20 PM   -   RE: How to mix your POP...

damballah

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...or a troll...



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Message 7/27                 Date: 13-May-02  @  07:24 PM   -   RE: How to mix your POP...

Zink

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Well, y'don't HAVE to like it or find it useful.

In the absence of any 'How to mix your dubby techno from scratch' articles, the fact is I DID find it useful and informative even if some things were redundant.


Sorry if you hate it! Just sharing, caring.

 



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Message 8/27                 Date: 13-May-02  @  07:45 PM   -   RE: How to mix your POP...

Zink

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As an interesting side note...

 

It's worth learning and getting tips from as many different sources as possible. A lot of underground technooooo stuff is actually mixed like shit and becomes a muddy mess when played on a big system. Not all, but enough to be annoying.

The best mix I've ever heard (And I KNOW a lot of people will give me flak for this!) is a Candi Staton remix of Young Hearts put out on REACT a good while back. I don't make Disco, but fuck, this thing REALLY REALLY Kicks hard and has super fat bass can be played really, really, really loud and you can hear EVERYTHING as clear as a bell. I would love to talk to the mix/master Engineer who did that track and see how they did it and hopefully be able to apply it to my mixes. Keep an open mind.



Mook.



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Message 9/27                 Date: 13-May-02  @  08:13 PM   -   RE: How to mix your POP...

bedwyr

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"By the end of the track, you will either be very excited or extremely depressed"

*sigh*



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Message 10/27                 Date: 13-May-02  @  09:45 PM   -   RE: How to mix your POP...

bedwyr

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well worth a read, informative and funny too. nice one, zink.



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Message 11/27                 Date: 13-May-02  @  10:01 PM   -   RE: How to mix your POP...

milan

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yeah, i just read most of it. i think its good actually. maybe not for ppl with home setups, but for work in a commercial studio deffinitely. i can relate to a lot of his attitudes, if not exact techiques used. e.g. trying not to destroy a song, not to overdo things, not take everything apart the next day etc... oh, and also to preferably play the bounced 2-trk to the band so they cant jump at the faders  



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Message 12/27                 Date: 14-May-02  @  08:47 AM   -   RE: How to mix your POP...

influx

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damn man. I didnt mean to sound so negative. sorry bout that

the influx thing..I thought you were referring to the "pop" tag..that I might talk shit about that...

bottom line is, good mixing is good mixing no matter what style. Certain styles will have different requirements but the basics are definitely the same, no doubt

good lookin out on the ref!

you might want to check out www.prorec.com articles/archives..TONS of info there, too.



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Message 13/27                 Date: 14-May-02  @  02:47 PM   -   RE: How to mix your POP...

Brett

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I thought he meant that he wanted everyone to participate in this but us, because we are a little in people's face from time to time.



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Message 14/27                 Date: 14-May-02  @  02:57 PM   -   RE: How to mix your POP...

Brett

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I went ahead and looked anyway, and thought it is a good article to get a newbie wet and give them some confidence about how to aproach the process.

And
influx, I think people do mix pop diferant then a song meant for massive system. Pop music has much more space in it for the vocals and individual instuments to shine through. We layer the tracks so deep and heavy in electronic except for the ambient breaksdowns and intros. We compress vocals much more to sit in the complex mix, where as most singers would be mad at the engineer for making them so flat on their radio ready single.

And zink, I may have some experience with lots of synths, but mixing is somthing I am just getting better at after 5 years of experimenting. The book "the mix engineer's handbook" by Bob Owsinski, and things I have read in mix mag, here, and just plain grasped form the experimentation, are a cumulative thing.

There are plenty of people here with quit a bit of mixing and desk time in actual profesional facilities. All of you please come forward!



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Message 15/27                 Date: 14-May-02  @  04:35 PM   -   RE: How to mix your POP...

bedwyr

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i dunno about the singers/radio thing brett. lots of pop vocals are compressed to hell. backing vocal more than anything, but kate bush? squashed. and that was years ago. a friend used to be in a succesfull band (more recent) and we were talking producing 'fashion' the other day. one year you're recording and everyone had manleys then everywhere had distressors (empirical labs), sticking everything through them, squashing the vocal like crazy.



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Message 16/27                 Date: 14-May-02  @  05:03 PM   -   RE: How to mix your POP...

damballah

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and some of the better electronic tracks I've heard are deceptively simple, the musicians showed the restraint to not toss a million things into the mix just because they could, not make it "layered so deep and heavy." it's really the same game, frequencies and proportions, it's just the source of those frequencies that's different.



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Message 17/27                 Date: 14-May-02  @  05:10 PM   -   RE: How to mix your POP...

Zink

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Kate Bush needed a damn squashing!   Actually, I have to admit to owning all her albums.   Lovely.

I admire the more-is-less thing, too. I think fattening up your sounds so that even a minimal track still sounds full and rich would be a great skill for me to have.

Glad people found it somewhat informative. I'll check your ref links, influxxxx....



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Message 18/27                 Date: 14-May-02  @  05:32 PM   -   RE: How to mix your POP...

Mindspawn

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Minimal tracks are generally more punchy than trax that have a lot of layering. More room for stuff to have its own space... The more sound you throw at a track the harder it is to keep things distinct, and thereby punchy...



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Message 19/27                 Date: 14-May-02  @  06:33 PM   -   RE: How to mix your POP...

Brett

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you don't think they stick the vocals and guitars up farther in a pop songs than they do the synths and drums?



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Message 20/27                 Date: 14-May-02  @  06:47 PM   -   RE: How to mix your POP...

knowa

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no, I disagree with you. that's what I was born to do.  

I am trying to learn the restraint I admire so much in other people's music. check out

http://www.mille-plateaux.net/mp/

esp. snd (makesnd)

brilliant!



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Message 21/27                 Date: 15-May-02  @  01:53 AM   -   RE: How to mix your POP...

k

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Very good article, that's the guy who wrote Freeverb isn't it, Jazar?... useful stuff to be gleaned there for sure, some of it is so true, especialy about other people ing up the mix -

In our 'trade' the creation/mix process usualy happens hand in hand tho so it's a bit different ... imo, you cant really approach dancemusic in that way without it resulting in a a rather contrived bland track... but for pop song/guitar bands as he says it's spot on.

In our thing, when you startout a tune, you might make a killer beat, or bassline & hat or synth riff, or some pulsating noise patterns, it can be anything, and what eq's and fx & dynamic controls etc you mould it's overall sound with dynamicaly & tonaly IS the whole thing in itself...

So that synth-riff/sound/pulse we created picks up a hat & kik pattern that work with it or you start with whatever... but in dance/techno/electronica the way a starting or newly added sound is 'mixed/processed' so much effects what happens next in a natural organic flowing way, we dont 'mix' at the end after tracking in that way....

There is similarities tho - The worst thing in dance is making that initial setup riff/sound combi, and then changing it in ANY way... like you setup this riff which happens organicaly, then think: "Oh, i want to add such and such next" - and you do and then you see the meter is red so you think, "Oh i'll drop all the faders a bit or gain or do whatever", and at that point you loose it completely, some supercritical balance between volume, dynamic's, tone etc is precarious when created in that relational way, and once you move it or alter it EVEN a fraction it often evaporates, or never quite sounds the same as it did a second before, and nothing you do canm get it to sound like that again, it's weird!!!... so you need to leave it alone and or make 100% detailed record or s/w save of it at that point... that similarity is the same but with us it's at every point as you work from the very beggining..

Like the kikdrum might be at +2db and with a *slight* boost around 120hz with a fast slope and at that volume and velocity that one fractionaly emphasised frequency will force the bassline to pulsate harmonicaly subtly which you subconciously 'tuned into' as you created the bassline...

you gotta remember that we're just playing with airwaves, making them pulse and move in rhythms, so in effect we are playing a vibration on our own & other peoples bodies like beating out a rhythm on their body physicaly when they listen to a track loud, all we are doing is manipulating electronic waves to create rhythmic pulsing waves thru the air... therefore that critical pulsing of the bassline caused by that tiny freq boost in the kik emphasising the basslines harmonic of a related frequency changes the way the bassline at IT'S optimaly created relative settings works in empathy with the kik... even the fractional change can ruin it.

that's worth sorting out... you tweak the top end yes, "oh the hats are just a fraction too loud" like in pop article, you do that at the end while listening casualy from another room preferably too... hats do tend to need that final tweak cos they arent moving air in the same way but DO carry alot of emphasis based on relational volume ..... but never touch the fundamentals, or render it off as a perfect loop and work round that or something...



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Message 22/27                 Date: 15-May-02  @  08:10 AM   -   RE: How to mix your POP...

bedwyr

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eeewwwhh, k used the e word.

here's another mixing anecdote, albums being mixed, band's in there. guitarist asks what channel is some part on. asks the guy mixing "can i turn that up?" geezer goes, ok, you turn it up. so he does, and then the bloke mixing goes "why did you do that?" "well i thought it could be a bit louder ..." "i've been mixing this all day yesterday and that one part that you thought was quiet wasn't bothering me, but the whole mix is bothering me now because it's upset the balance, eq, etc. this has changed, that has changed ..."


bigger picture innit.

it was an automated mix, so i guess that's why he let him move the fader.



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Message 23/27                 Date: 15-May-02  @  08:26 AM   -   RE: How to mix your POP...

Stinky da fae

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electroniwhat?

Ewww!

k lets the side down!

Bad k, naughty k, in your BED!

 



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Message 24/27                 Date: 15-May-02  @  08:41 AM   -   RE: How to mix your POP...

influx

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did he? where?

naughty kilo!!! bad! go to your room!



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Message 25/27                 Date: 15-May-02  @  02:45 PM   -   RE: How to mix your POP...

Brett

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I thought is was funny that K's profanity was deleted by the system cause he wasn't signed in! LOL.... very true though,

and bedwyr, that was funny. Any chance to mess with an over zealous musician is worth the time.



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Message 26/27                 Date: 15-May-02  @  02:45 PM   -   RE: How to mix your POP...

damballah

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this has gotta be the best place on the web for a newbie electronica producer to learn about another ultimate softsynth.



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Message 27/27                 Date: 15-May-02  @  04:56 PM   -   RE: How to mix your POP...

k

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cheeky bastard...  

Hey, I just like stuff that you can plugin and go - i go for many cheaper synths that each do what they do & do it well, rather than larger synths which do many things at once..

___________________________________

I had an idea for a script once. It's basically Jaws except when the guys in the boat are going after Jaws, they look around and there's an even bigger Jaws. The guys have to team up with Jaws to get Bigger Jaws.... I call it... Big Jaws!!!



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