Original Message 1/21                 Date: 03-May-02  @  09:43 PM   -   howdya get them to gell like that?

milan

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erm, i decided to ask others for tech advice after a long time.

you see, i have problems with getting my beats to gell properly when using hardware. you know: you take a bunch of samples, make a pattern, and do _something_ to it so they all melt together, into one cohesive substance. i´m primarily talking about breakbeat based beats here, meaning bunch of samples grabbed from different sources.

using software, i find this to be no problem. i can put a plugin on a group which will take care of this. my favourites untill now were TC plugs with "soft-sat" function, or PSP mix saturator and vintage warmer plugs.

only thing is, i dont want to be software based. what the hell do i have a sampler for? or maybe i should sell it (i do use it primarily for beats nowadays) and take the soft route for drums?

in case you think i should stick with hardware, what do you suggest? what comp/tube amp/thingamajick does it for you? i´m making good use of my FilterBank, but that is only mono, and i like having things flexible, e.g. not having to resample things several times only to find out that they dont work.

help me! M.

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Message 2/21                 Date: 03-May-02  @  09:57 PM   -   RE: howdya get them to gell like that?

bedwyr

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exs24 for drums. my sampler is redundant. i'd impart more knowledge but that's all i know.

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Message 3/21                 Date: 03-May-02  @  10:12 PM   -   RE: howdya get them to gell like that?

tortoise

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Yep. EXS24. Replaced all my other drum doodads (samplers, machines, modules, etc).

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Message 4/21                 Date: 03-May-02  @  10:41 PM   -   RE: howdya get them to gell like that?

influx

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dunno. My drums rarely sit together. Always sounds like individual pieces that dont quite fit

honestly tho? Id really say dump the HW sampler. Not that I ever will, but...it could easily, EASILY be done...and way cheaper, less room taken up, etc.

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Message 5/21                 Date: 03-May-02  @  10:44 PM   -   RE: howdya get them to gell like that?

bedwyr

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here's a tip : sample some room tone and layer that behind your drums. fills the gaps, see?

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Message 6/21                 Date: 03-May-02  @  10:54 PM   -   RE: howdya get them to gell like that?

damballah

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I got a prefader aux bus feeding my J-Station with a gritty amp model and can dial up an appropriate amount of crud and squish which kinda smacks everything together a bit. sumpin like that?

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Message 7/21                 Date: 04-May-02  @  12:06 AM   -   RE: howdya get them to gell like that?

Espoo2

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a subtle reverb with a dash of predelay?

And ghost snares and hats always help... just some really low, maybe panned snares under your other stuff, making another rhythm subtley underneath the main beat, low velocity.... same with hats.... just be sure to use different snares and hats than you are using for your main beat... This almost always helps my beats to "gel".... but be subtle...

If you dont wanna give the HW, why dont you do your beats in software and import them to your smapler?

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Message 8/21                 Date: 04-May-02  @  01:58 AM   -   RE: howdya get them to gell like that?

k

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yu couylkd go for a multi-in audio device & route your outboard into the s/w mix and add vsti fx etc in the s/w mixer!

___________________________________

I had an idea for a script once. It's basically Jaws except when the guys in the boat are going after Jaws, they look around and there's an even bigger Jaws. The guys have to team up with Jaws to get Bigger Jaws.... I call it... Big Jaws!!!

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Message 9/21                 Date: 04-May-02  @  03:28 AM   -   RE: howdya get them to gell like that?

milan

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WOW! you guys rule   but what are you all doing at home on a friday evening?

i´ll have to re-read all of this tomorrow when my braincells reconnect.

thans all! M.

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Message 10/21                 Date: 04-May-02  @  05:06 AM   -   RE: howdya get them to gell like that?

xoxos

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use some synthy things and put notes in with them.

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Message 11/21                 Date: 04-May-02  @  07:03 AM   -   RE: howdya get them to gell like that?

Espoo2

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thats a novel idea.

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Message 12/21                 Date: 04-May-02  @  08:29 AM   -   RE: howdya get them to gell like that?

bedwyr

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i went out thursday instead, but all these other guys are just saddos.

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Message 13/21                 Date: 04-May-02  @  05:12 PM   -   RE: howdya get them to gell like that?

dru

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yeah- what Espoo2 said.
put all kinds of rollin' little tppity tappity shit in close with your snares and kicks. Shift'em back and forth and stuff- they really give it a shuffly cohesive sort of rythm.

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Message 14/21                 Date: 04-May-02  @  08:32 PM   -   RE: howdya get them to gell like that?

damballah

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night time your time is day time here, M

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Message 15/21                 Date: 05-May-02  @  12:44 PM   -   RE: howdya get them to gell like that?

sitar

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I think a lot is in the compression. It depends on the drum kit but I'm finding, thanks to some help from a friend, that a short attack with some heavy compression works well when you slide the release down until it all starts pumping in and out, and then ease back to taste. It makes the drums flow sort of like a river with all the little whirlpools and things distinct and yet cohesive. I remember K mentioning something about easing back on the pumping a couple of years ago maybe, but I couldn't get my compressor to do that at the time.

Here's another thing that everybody probably knows but I just discovered. :[ although it's very dicey. Take a reverb with a very short tail and little or no early reference. A "small room" reverb might be a good starting point. Bring the level IN THE REVERB UNIT up into the clipping zone. Then adjust the mix ratio. You probably want it just a little wet. Seems to give a slightly different effect than simply clipping the drum. I can imagine this effect in some styles of d'n'b. It might be too dirty for breakbeats. I don't know.

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Message 16/21                 Date: 05-May-02  @  08:25 PM   -   RE: howdya get them to gell like that?

xoxos

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i disagree. it's not some process you run in whole or in part, it's your visualisation/what goes into it in the first place.

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Message 17/21                 Date: 05-May-02  @  09:31 PM     Edit: 05-May-02  |  09:32 PM   -   RE: howdya get them to gell like that?

milan

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ya know... i spent some time yesterday and today for trying out different tips suggested here. on one hand, spending a time on creating unusuall ambience ´verbs helped out, but also spending time and picking out sounds carefully brought me to my goal much quicker. funny thing is, i had to use my headphones to make out the subleties within individual drum hits, which in turn made a big difference in the end.

unfortunately, i still got better results quicker with s/w. might have something to with not having all the samples strewn around different banks... oh well.

some cool tips here, especially the last one from sitar. who would´ve thought ;)

if anyone else comes up with a cool tip, feel free to post it  

cheers, M.

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Message 18/21                 Date: 05-May-02  @  09:31 PM   -   RE: howdya get them to gell like that?

Pongoid

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There is no one cut and dried answer, save for training your ears to learn what effect each action you perform has on the sounds around it because it all adds up. Each level of each instrument will make your compressor/s behave differently, as will each tweek, and bit of saturation or lack thereof, what kind of verb, how bright, how long, how wet, EQ before and after the compression, all kinds of stuff. Use your ears enough, and it will come together. they will tell you sooner or later what you need to do to make your mix work.


Ape

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Message 19/21                 Date: 06-May-02  @  04:28 PM   -   RE: howdya get them to gell like that?

proximus

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a.wav.mp3

Try running it through a noisegate then you can get a ch' ch' effect on your beat, like it stops a bit and starts again, gives it a groove maybe? I think it's funky but I don't know you think..

I read sitar's tip yesterday and tried it, but I think I did something wrong cos it sounded like a human beatbox. I'm putting up a sample.. it's actually pretty cool.. I think. It's very distorted indeed.. maybe that's all really listen to it, ok?

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Message 20/21                 Date: 06-May-02  @  10:42 PM   -   RE: howdya get them to gell like that?

sitarsong

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Thanks for the vote of confidence Milan ;[

:P

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Message 21/21                 Date: 06-May-02  @  11:31 PM   -   RE: howdya get them to gell like that?

Brett

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the use of a loop sliced up and sequenced to your liking works, and then layer a new kick or some new hats with it. The pre-processed loops help make that layered sound i like.

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