Original Message 1/26                 Date: 29-Apr-02  @  03:57 PM   -   mixing for club sound systems

soulsurvivor

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When mxing dance music (house/techno etc)do people usually take into account how they will sound on club sound systems or should this not be considered?

Do club sound engineers re-eq the records on the fly anyway? I've also heard that all sound systems convert into mono before being transmitted to the speakers, is this true?

The reason I ask is I'm working on quite a clubby tune at the moment (sort of funky house)and I want to make sure it sounds good in the clubs (if it got that far). However, its quite bass heavey and sounds great on my Absolute 2's but Ive heard this are naturally quite bright and so Im worried Im over compensating for this.

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Message 2/26                 Date: 29-Apr-02  @  06:49 PM   -   RE: mixing for club sound systems

bedwyr

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some clubs are all mono, some just sum the bass into mono. the system i've played on most is in stereo. two stacks in a room that holds about 300. in there they usually eq any low rumbling resonances out by turning the mixer up full gain and tapping the decks. they probably put a smiley eq on the graphic, and generally put more top on when the place is fuller.

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Message 3/26                 Date: 29-Apr-02  @  11:03 PM   -   RE: mixing for club sound systems

Brett

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if it sounds good on a small system chances are it will sound good in a club too. Most well designed systems utilize some sort of crossover system that isolates bass and even subharmonically synthesizes lower frequencies to send to the subs.

If you add this extra umph in to a mix and the system is not designed for it, you can blow speakers or even just have it sound like mudd. So mixing on some nice big speakers in the studio can help, as long as you a/b them to sound good on the small system as well. I have taken bad mixes to the club and they sound great. The bigger the speaker the more forgiving it is to unballanced material.

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Message 4/26                 Date: 29-Apr-02  @  11:21 PM   -   RE: mixing for club sound systems

gb

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So now we're on to "what monitors for trance" again. I'm still slightly confused, even tho the last monitor thread in music tech taught me a lot.

Given that your monitors don't go all the way down to the really low frequencies... Is that where a sub-woofer comes in ? Do we want a sub to be able to hear what's actually going on down there, assuming that if we can get the mix to sound good on a pair of excellent monitors AND a sub then it will sound decent on just about any system ?

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Message 5/26                 Date: 30-Apr-02  @  02:16 PM   -   RE: mixing for club sound systems

Brett

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I am just saying mix on big club speakers. I have some dj monitors I use, and then I have small near feilds as well.

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Message 6/26                 Date: 30-Apr-02  @  02:34 PM   -   RE: mixing for club sound systems

soulsurvivor

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Bret, whats the difference between DJ monitors and studio monitors?

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Message 7/26                 Date: 30-Apr-02  @  03:12 PM   -   RE: mixing for club sound systems

k

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i think the biggst problem is not bass mut the high mid... people tend to over emphasise the top mid to get presense and definition to the parts at low volume , then in a club it's ear-bleedingly harsh. - I guess golden rule is keep the main groove components centered.

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Message 8/26                 Date: 30-Apr-02  @  03:25 PM   -   RE: mixing for club sound systems

soulsurvivor

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so you suggest going easy on the high-mids?

I've heard that the louder the system the more the lows and very high ends get emphasised and the mids get drowned out, is this not the case?

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Message 9/26                 Date: 30-Apr-02  @  03:26 PM   -   RE: mixing for club sound systems

milan

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DJ monitors would be just like normal stage monitors you have at a gig. the wedge shaped ones. though that usually goes only for big clubs. in smaller clubs you can run into anything from hifi bookshelf speakers to miniature monitor wedges.

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Message 10/26                 Date: 30-Apr-02  @  04:15 PM     Edit: 30-Apr-02  |  06:26 PM   -   RE: mixing for club sound systems

damballah

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yeah, go easy on 2.5 to 4k. some 2-bit hacks boost that range on the club system to increase "intelligebility" or some such nonsense, and you pump a bunch in for the same reason when you mix, it ends up harsh and screechy. yech.

one thing I've found about playing the stuff in clubs is that the system has enough bass. you don't gotta dump a ton of bass in there make up for any deficiencies. if you do, then it gets boomy and robs the mids of their energy. if your mix is nice and balanced, through a big system it should sound massive.

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Message 11/26                 Date: 30-Apr-02  @  06:18 PM   -   RE: mixing for club sound systems

Brett

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plus going to CD you can do what ever you want, but vinyl has limits to the way it handell phase and eq. A flat, balanced mix is best for the master house, for if you are just cutting a CD for people you may want to run it hotter and do a littel brightening so it sounds good in the car ant normal level etc. The dj monitors are made to go loud and not to be accurate. So they give you an idea of what you music is going to sound like blaring on a not so fgood system. They will let you know if you have mud or not. If things get burried that are key to the song. A part may drop out behind somthing else, but on the studio monitors, with good imaging, they sound clear. The most important thing big speaker do is let you know if the bass and kick are pumping properly.

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Message 12/26                 Date: 30-Apr-02  @  09:39 PM     Edit: 30-Apr-02  |  09:42 PM   -   RE: mixing for club sound systems

gb

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"Will you QUIT confusing people ?" she axed, smiling softly at him.

"Lovebirds..." whispered the guy behind the counter.

So we walked out of the Atlanta airport without my luggage, without any form of compensation.

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Message 13/26                 Date: 30-Apr-02  @  09:41 PM   -   RE: mixing for club sound systems

gb

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Is a sub-woofer a good idea or not ?

I'll see if I can clarify what I'm confused about sometime later tonight, but I suppose if I could make it clear I wouldn't really be confused in the first place...

ARGH!

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Message 14/26                 Date: 30-Apr-02  @  11:37 PM   -   RE: mixing for club sound systems

Zink

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What you need, is Protools(tm).

;)

Michael.

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Message 15/26                 Date: 01-May-02  @  12:01 AM   -   RE: mixing for club sound systems

Brett

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funny!

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Message 16/26                 Date: 01-May-02  @  12:41 AM   -   RE: mixing for club sound systems

influx

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subwoofer can be a good idea...a good setup with a solid crossover etc. Definitely give you an idea of what is at the bottom

BUT...again...JUST FUCKING DANCE MUSIC! Make it sound BIG and full, and enough bass...hell...mix it on auratones...get the bass where its just present but not farting anything out...and itll sound solid on pretty much anything

I always thought vinyl could handle a bit MORE than CD audio?

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Message 17/26                 Date: 01-May-02  @  12:45 AM   -   RE: mixing for club sound systems

xoxos

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yeah and put some rhythms in it that interact a bit. what a fuss eh.

hey i i'll have those ragtime albums in the mail this week i promise. june bug jitterbug is the shit!

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Message 18/26                 Date: 01-May-02  @  06:14 AM   -   RE: mixing for club sound systems

Mindspawn

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Influx - not in terms of actual hotness. Lots of lows and high highs muck with the vinyl cutting process more. You can go waaaaay hotter on CD, especially for longer tracks (over 8 minutes or thereabouts...). However, I'm also hearing that a lot of the vinyl mastering shops are now turning out masters from mixes that were "CD hot" and they're still sounding spot on, so...

Unfortunately, I've yet to be able to send out the same mixdown for vinyl as I have for CD. The places I've had to go through for vinyl generally want a mixdown that comes in peaking around -3db digital. Check with the mastering engineers directly if you can. Might save a lot of headache.

Pase

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Message 19/26                 Date: 01-May-02  @  02:22 PM   -   RE: mixing for club sound systems

Brett

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yes, intercuts are a lot more likely if you have big bottom on a long track, as the grooves have to be closer together on the longer songs.

I remember listening to an orbital track on the cd my freind had, so I went and got the vinyl albumn. The track was "Out there Somwhere" The vinyl has no bass and I had to crank up the bass on the eq for it sound adequate over the PA.

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Message 20/26                 Date: 01-May-02  @  10:38 PM   -   RE: mixing for club sound systems

influx

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damn..but that just sounds like someone did a really bad job pressing it, no?

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Message 21/26                 Date: 02-May-02  @  12:33 AM   -   RE: mixing for club sound systems

milan

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thats weird. i have some records where the bass is louder if anything, than the CD. hope it wasnt a faulty needle that caused this  

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Message 22/26                 Date: 02-May-02  @  07:05 AM   -   RE: mixing for club sound systems

Mindspawn

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Nope, nope nope... Vinyl when played usually DOES have more bass, but when ya mix for vinyl ya usually hafta go a bit lighter on the bass and highs. But when you're talking overall db smashing, digital can go way higher.

Flux - That was my response when I got the test pressing from this outfit... sounded like a fucked press. But when I asked them about it they said it was due to being too hot, especially in the subs and high end. When I asked the main console jock what i should be sending them he said nothing hotter than -3db as digital peak. That's also been confirmed by a couple other vinyl houses.... HOWEVER, since I'm usually coming straight off me board (no extra maximizing, compressing, etc.) at waaaay hotter than what their talking, I called around and got about three times as many mastering houses that said to get it set the way I liked it. All said to make sure not to overdo the subs and the real high end, but aside from that, I could feel free to push the levels reasonably hot (definitely peaking at digital 0).

So, that being the case, I'd just check with the mastering engineer first-hand if you can. Although, honestly, I'd assume most labels would let you know how you need to mix and/or master, if it's an issue, so I wouldna fret too much about generally....

PPPPPPPP

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Message 23/26                 Date: 02-May-02  @  10:35 AM   -   RE: mixing for club sound systems

influx

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oh fuck it this is all just a stupid game anyway

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Message 24/26                 Date: 02-May-02  @  11:35 AM   -   RE: mixing for club sound systems

xoxos

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i dunno, you're pretty good and music can mean a whole lotta shit to people.

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Message 25/26                 Date: 02-May-02  @  02:20 PM   -   RE: mixing for club sound systems

Brett

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that whole albumn orbital has really long tracks on it. So they squeeze the grooves together, and to do so they have to lower the bass cuz the hotter the bass the wider the grooves go. I think they did it so they could fit all those tracks on to less vinyl. At any rate the record sounds like shit next to the cd. The umph on the 808 is just gone on the record.

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Message 26/26                 Date: 02-May-02  @  02:22 PM   -   RE: mixing for club sound systems

Brett

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oh, and I know we have touched on this in the past, but phase has alot to do with losing bass in vinyl. they mono all the lows and sum them, and if your stereo mix sounds great but the bass is out of phase at all, the volume may drop considerably when mono'ed out. so switch your mixer into mono to see if the levels change.

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