Original Message 1/11                 Date: 18-Feb-02  @  02:40 PM   -   Normalisation vs. compression

krom303

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hi, its some time i make sounds myself (not only farts) using a pc running cakewalk sonar. i use it mainly for recording.

the line level of the outputs of some of my gear (especially the prophecy or the 777) is quite low, and i dont have a decent hardware compressor or preamp or whatever. so sometimes what i record into sonar through my midiman delta 66 has quite a low volume (less than 24db).

i was wondering what i should use to maximize the volume of the single tracks: compression (i have different plug in compressors\limiters - waves, timeworks, tcnative), or normalisation? im talking about maximizing the signal of each track , not of the whole mix. i heard that normalisation can ruin the mix, is this true also if you apply it to one single track?

is it really necessary to maximize the volume of each track? i make mainly slower detroitish technoish stuff and my drums are usually loud, but some of the other sounds cut through without them being LOUD. maybe its just a matter of taste... i also have to say that i often use the aforementioned plug-ins to influence some the sounds i record (snares, kicks, hats mainly).

any input appreciated!

David

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Message 2/11                 Date: 18-Feb-02  @  08:28 PM     Edit: 18-Feb-02  |  08:29 PM   -   RE: Normalisation vs. compression

damballah

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that sounds wrong on the face of it, you should be able to get decent level into your PC. If you're not, what you need is additional pre-amplification. you could fake this the makeup gain or output knob on a hardware compressor, but a preamp would be better for the job. normalizing would be OK and doesn't fuck up the whole mix because it raises everything proportionately. now if your individual tracks are recorded at -24 db and you normalize them to 0, you're in effect raising the low level noise by 24 db as well. yuck.

it's a bit of a myth that you have record everything flicking up against 0 db anyway. if you construct your tracks in midi so they sound almost mixed when you're working with them, you can track everything at final-mix related levels. that way you're not trying to redo all that work you've already done once.

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Message 3/11                 Date: 18-Feb-02  @  08:37 PM   -   RE: Normalisation vs. compression

influx

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do you have the volume of the synths UP?

the 777 should be a lot hotter. You need to get them as hot as you can FIRST...(not necessarily at 0db altho if youre going to sequence audio and mix later yes, you should so you have good gain structure)..

wondering why youre having a problem getting levels proper

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Message 4/11                 Date: 18-Feb-02  @  11:39 PM   -   RE: Normalisation vs. compression

bedwyr

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is the record level set properly on the soundcard software?

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Message 5/11                 Date: 19-Feb-02  @  12:10 AM   -   RE: Normalisation vs. compression

milan

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yeah man, you must have something somewhere turned down. all your gear outputs standard line levels, there should be no need for additional preamplification!

anyway, normalise sounds prior to mixing if you cannot get them loud enough from start. use compression/ limiting to reduce the dynamics, e.g. to even out a pumping sound which is sometimes too loud and sometimes too quiet.

cheers, M.

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Message 6/11                 Date: 19-Feb-02  @  03:11 AM   -   RE: Normalisation vs. compression

Brett B

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you shouldn't need additional pre-amp, but a nice tube direct box is used in almost all the high end productions we are used to hearing.

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Message 7/11                 Date: 19-Feb-02  @  03:51 AM   -   RE: Normalisation vs. compression

krom303

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hey thx for ur replies,
lol i whish i had the money for a nice tube compressor, maybe with digital ins and outs...
no i think the settings on the midiman card are ok, sonar gets what it gets, and it works fine on other gear (like the a3000 or the xbase9) the outs of the 777 are a bit hotter than the proph, which has bad quality outs (at least mine has, but i dont think im the only one).

the problem with raising vol lvls is that you raise the noise lvl as well, and i dont like eqing my sounds too miuch since i try to get them right before recording.
i guess a digital mixer would solve my problems, o maybe my problem doesnt really exist...

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Message 8/11                 Date: 19-Feb-02  @  05:10 AM   -   RE: Normalisation vs. compression

influx

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ok wait

are the master volumes on each piece of gear ALL the way up?

then...the gain on your mixer?

but, really..when youre ready to record, sometimes its best to just go straight into the soundcard, ya know? have you tried that?

turning up the volume can raise the noise level..but...ahhh man...its SO fukcing hard to figure out someone elses gear!

are you running through a mixer? are all the channels going at once? If so...kill all the channels except the one youre recording. get that nice and hot..and it should work

I still like the going direct into the soundcard thing (and yeah a good DI or pre would be nice but its NOT necessary)

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Message 9/11                 Date: 19-Feb-02  @  11:39 AM   -   RE: Normalisation vs. compression

krom303

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lol,
i always go directly into the delta 66, wouldnt dare to use my crappy little behringer...
thx anyway, your input has given me something to think about, gotta try it out a bit.
is anyone here using a behringer eurorack mx802a?
if yes, whats your opinion of it?

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Message 10/11                 Date: 20-Feb-02  @  07:05 PM   -   RE: Normalisation vs. compression

k

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yeah, but the nominal range for digital is -12db - Logic & VSt also record tracks low in level - i assume this is to prtovide headroom when summing tracks... it's the final master out/file level that counts.

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Message 11/11                 Date: 21-Feb-02  @  01:54 AM   -   RE: Normalisation vs. compression

k

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by the way, normalisation DOESN'T mess up audio... the pc just seeks the highest peak and brings it up to 0 dBFS ... so relatively, all the rest of the track get's raised too. perhaps you'd be better using the increase/decrease volume command which again will update the actual file's max peak by the inserted amount (cake has the +3db -3db commands too for example. if you normalise it, it wont it up, but you'll prolly end up dropping it's fader to get it to sit in the mix cos it'll blast everything else to shreds  

the other thing about normalisation is only relevent to non-dance genre's mostly, & it's where an album has quite marked differences in volume between tracks - rock tracks to gentle ballads with acoustic's etc, all mixed together on a CD for example - if you normalise ALL the tracks individualy in an editor to get peak's up, they will all be raised to a peak of 0 dBFS, so the ballad will sound like crap cos it'll be blasting out as loud as the rock tracks. So in that case, you'd create your single album file by pasting all the tracks end to end (order doesnt matter at this point), and select ALL & normalise THE LOT - that way it's find the loudest peak of the loudest track, and raise it, and everything else, RELATIVE to it's highest peak raise in level... the ballad will sound in context, less loud than the rock tracks.

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