Original Message 1/39                 Date: 17-Sep-01  @  04:14 AM   -   It never stops

Yonce N Mild

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How do you know when to stop ...I mean is a track really ever finished ...anyway here is the third edit of Iniquity.....Thanks ya'll for the help and advice.....I actually think this is done now but as usual coments and suggestions are apperciated.......The bass gets lost in the lofi so you'll have to take my word for it there is some serious bass in this version....I dig it
peace to you all
Yonce

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Message 2/39                 Date: 17-Sep-01  @  04:48 AM   -   RE: It never stops

damballah

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you can either work on something forever or let it reach its final stage of incompletion

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Message 3/39                 Date: 17-Sep-01  @  05:02 AM   -   RE: It never stops

eight way buddha

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when to stop? hmmm, hopefully some day that decision will come easily to me also.

take a lil break from hearing the song for a wile and if you can sit back and say, hell yeah she's the one! hopefully shes the one, otherwise there's always remixes.  

what sucks is when you ride a song to long, and it becomes over wieght. but still usually if you sit back and not listen to the tune for a wile you can pick up on that too when hearing it again.
then just prioritize and drop the excess.

hope i was some what of a help.

nice track by the way.  

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Message 4/39                 Date: 17-Sep-01  @  03:57 PM   -   RE: It never stops

Yonce N Mild

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Thats kinda what I did with this track.... I took about 2 weeks break and started working on some new stuff while working on a new track I got some inspiration for Iniquity and worked for like 4hrs straight and wipped up a new mix......I still could tweak it forever.......let it reach it's final stage of incompletion......I like that

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Message 5/39                 Date: 17-Sep-01  @  04:24 PM   -   RE: It never stops

influx

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when I get my studio back up I am going to go VERY simple. VERY VERY simple, and just write the track...

gonna try to make it 3 days from start to finish. work on the arrangement get it all down then take it to the studio to be mixed. I think Ive decided to give up on the home engineering part. I have friends that can make it sound that much better than I can.

I tend to try to MIX while Im WRITING and its become quite clear that doing so makes it take that much longer.

but...you could rework the same song for...well...forever and never have it done, but personally Ive finally gotten to the point when I feel like "I dont need or want to add anymore to this song" and I just let it go.

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Message 6/39                 Date: 17-Sep-01  @  04:28 PM   -   RE: It never stops

dARKSTATe

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Influx..

Write the music..

Mix the track..

Master that sucker..

Then turn your back...

 

Marc_D

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Message 7/39                 Date: 17-Sep-01  @  06:35 PM   -   RE: It never stops

influx

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right...but Im thinkin I might eliminate step 2. Let someone else mix it

Id be there, but...

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Message 8/39                 Date: 17-Sep-01  @  09:36 PM   -   RE: It never stops

panama

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influx: yea, good thinking man... I normally give myself about 3 or 4 days to write a tune, and then I'm done. I don't mix while I write. But I do throw a little compression on, and maybe get some of the frequencies straighten'd out... But overall, I do all the writting for about 3 or 4 days with little mixing...

I dunno if you should get other people to mix your track... b/c the whole purpose of mixing is to mix... This is where half of your creativity lies, in effects and so on... I might think you would want to get someone to master a track for ya, but mixing is a key signature for tones and sounds for an artist.

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Message 9/39                 Date: 17-Sep-01  @  10:43 PM   -   RE: It never stops

influx

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uh...panama...how many people on released music actually mixed their own shit?

less than half Id guess. Thing is...I have access to three VERY nice studios. I would be able to sit in on the session. It wouldnt be just me handing them audio and saying "here mix this"

and on top of that..when i tracked stuff I would track the FX that I absolutely had to have.

I think I have it figgered out tho

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Message 10/39                 Date: 17-Sep-01  @  11:20 PM   -   RE: It never stops

milan

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hmm... i´m pretty sure that the majority of people in 'underground' dance music either mix their own tunes, or are working closely with someone who does it for them. i know that all of my favourite producers do it themselves.

though, it might happen that they have all the gear they need, what with being in the scene for ages and all...

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Message 11/39                 Date: 17-Sep-01  @  11:50 PM   -   RE: It never stops

Sensoniq

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I usually write my tracks 3 - 5 minutes to suit an album rather than a dancefloor which requires longer. The reason being that I havn't yet had the opportunity to have my stuff played on the floor, but peeps have played it on their stereos, in their cars, etc.

Once the verse/chorus has cycled through a few times and I've inverted it to death, then I usually just end it on an extended chorus, either fade-out or abruptly depending on what suits the mood.

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Message 12/39                 Date: 18-Sep-01  @  10:51 AM   -   RE: It never stops

dARKSTATe

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"..access to three VERY nice studios.."

(grumbles) Show off!! ;)

Mix it yerself! You're a dirty lad, stay dirty, keep yer hands dirty.. don't wash!

 

Marc_D

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Message 13/39                 Date: 18-Sep-01  @  08:29 PM   -   RE: It never stops

influx

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gonna test it out. tracked "Darkness" last night so we will see how it sounds. If it doesnt work the way I want it to Ill keep on it myself instead

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Message 14/39                 Date: 19-Sep-01  @  05:53 AM   -   RE: It never stops

Yonce N Mild

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I have no access to any studios.......I don't even have a decent set of monitors...... mixing is a friggen joke for me mastering????? give me a break....damn i wish i had some nice monitors....or even some nice cash to turn into monitors.....fuck it I like it dirty it dosn't have to be squeeky clean to move the masses on the dance floor and thats the whole point init

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Message 15/39                 Date: 19-Sep-01  @  03:34 PM   -   RE: It never stops

k

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yonce - it sounds ok to me - dont you have a job to get a few things like speakers? - it wouldnt take long to save for stuff like that , a few months work, 8 weeks or so...

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Message 16/39                 Date: 19-Sep-01  @  03:36 PM   -   RE: It never stops

k

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what's the lead synth by the way? the EA1 ?... sounds good track, nice sound, nice moves etc.. are you mixing drums on seperate mixer channels?... that'll help alot with the sound... mebbe you just need a small mixer with decent eq and a better pair of speakers?... what's wrong with it anyways?....sounds good to me!

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Message 17/39                 Date: 19-Sep-01  @  05:08 PM   -   RE: It never stops

Maarten

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I feel Yonce's pain, I acknowledged my need for monitors months ago but have a hard time getting my priorities straight.


-M-

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Message 18/39                 Date: 19-Sep-01  @  06:45 PM   -   RE: It never stops

sensoniq

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Yeah if I lived in the dam I think I'd have other priorities
too ;)

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Message 19/39                 Date: 19-Sep-01  @  08:26 PM   -   RE: It never stops

influx

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studio doesnt necessarily equal squeaky clean. thats not what Im looking for. but I do like the ability to get it to sound that much better, AND take away the pain in the arse of mixing (sometimes its a pain. other times its tight 

no money for monitors? come on. Alesis M1s for $350?

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Message 20/39                 Date: 20-Sep-01  @  01:17 AM   -   RE: It never stops

Pongoid

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Don't take longer to mix your track than you do to record it, if you do you're overthinking it. Do it, and move on to the next piece. That's it. Do it. Then do another.


Ape

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Message 21/39                 Date: 20-Sep-01  @  04:38 PM   -   RE: It never stops

Yonce N Mild

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Actually monitors are next on my wish list...but since I just blew about a grand on a new pc and still haven't totally paid off my rm1x yet it'll be awhile right now i am using a set of yamaha bookshelf speakers to mix on i also have a nice pair of akg headphones but I don't like to use headphones to mix.....so at the moment I mix a track burn it to cd listen to it on my stereo,in my car,at my parents house,at my buddies house, etc. then kinda remix from memory it works eventually but is a real pain in the ass. And I actually do like how this track sounds I'm overall pretty happy with it but every time i hear it I think there needs to be a breakdown here I should drop out the bass there ya know kinda hard to just listen to your own music and take it at face value...always too critical but I have come to the conclusion that this track is DONE.....................untill the remix hehehhe

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Message 22/39                 Date: 20-Sep-01  @  04:45 PM   -   RE: It never stops

Yonce N Mild

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oh by the way the synth is my ea-1 and the asr-x layered together and tweaked seperatly and everything is on seprate channels

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Message 23/39                 Date: 20-Sep-01  @  05:15 PM   -   RE: It never stops

damballah

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well, yamaha consumer bookshelf speakers aren't all that different from NS-10s and god only knows how many records have been mixed on them bastards. the trick's getting familiar with your monitoring system and using that to make mixes that translate. you could go out and plunk down lots of money for top-of-the-line monitors and you'd still have to go through that process.

me thinks that pongoid has a new mantra ;)

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Message 24/39                 Date: 20-Sep-01  @  05:17 PM   -   RE: It never stops

Sensoniq

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To me mixing is much harder than composing. Mixing requires constant awareness of the panning settings and volume levels of every single track in a tune, and esp. how these tracks' panning and volume changes relate to one another.

Mixing requires playing the tune thru for every single track to make the neccessary adjustments. If there are 20 tracks in a 5 min. tune, this means at least 1 hour and 45 minutes for panning adjustments (20 X 5 min.), another 1 hour and 45 minutes for volume adjustments, and sometimes even more time for realtime eq adjustments in programs like Cubase.

And that's just hands-on time...It takes even more time to think about, analyze, and then practice what you're doing before you do it. If I don't give myself at least 8-9 hours to mix down a 5 minute tune then I feel that I'm doing it a disservice

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Message 25/39                 Date: 20-Sep-01  @  05:59 PM   -   RE: It never stops

damballah

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overthinkin' it? ding ding ding ding. we have a winner!

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Message 26/39                 Date: 20-Sep-01  @  07:48 PM   -   RE: It never stops

influx

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jesus fucking CHRIST!!!

what..you listen to every track INDIVIDUALLY? holy anal retentives batman!!!

sensoniq..got an offering for you. A song is a combination of parts, right? those parts have to work together right? so mix TOGETHER. not sayin a solo here and there to check fine tuning but...wow

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Message 27/39                 Date: 20-Sep-01  @  10:35 PM     Edit: 20-Sep-01  |  10:37 PM   -   RE: It never stops

milan

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yeah, if you ask the best mix engineers in the world they will tell you that it is imortant how something sounds in the mix, not on its own. i´ve seen a serious pro mix a snare which sounded shit, but when he pulled up the other faders it fitted perfectly. even Bob bloody Clearmountain would atest to that.

anyway, i LOVE mixing, even more that the rest of the process. i even do it for other people. eq-ing, compressing, setting the reverbs and the rest...mmmm... especialy if you have acces to nice gear, its a real pleasure.

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Message 28/39                 Date: 20-Sep-01  @  10:53 PM   -   RE: It never stops

xoxos

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each-sound fetishist. innit fun.

damballah do you have a link to that mantra thingy. that's korg right?

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Message 29/39                 Date: 21-Sep-01  @  04:32 AM   -   RE: It never stops

Sensoniq

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No, you peeps misunderstood me...I don't listen to every track individually and mix it solo, what I said was "play it through for every track."...

In other words, since I am not an octopus with dozens of arms I do one thing at a time: play the song all the way thru to affect track 1 panning, then play it all the way thru again to affect track 1 volume, then play it thru again for track 2 panning, thru again for track 2 volume, etc. etc.

Don't you all focus on one mix adjustment at a time per play too, or are there a few octopi in the midst?

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Message 30/39                 Date: 21-Sep-01  @  04:58 AM   -   RE: It never stops

Pongoid

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I understand the part about making things fit, however, if you get each sound right when you are building it, it should fit fairly well, and over time, you will learn how to spot the right sound for the right spot immediately. Eventually the sounds basicly tell you themself where they belong, and you just put them there, and it's not something you spend a long time mulling over. You slap shit into the mix and record it, then listen to it, and if it doesn't work, then you know for next time and you move on and try out something else.

I have a body of work that's immense, and the stuff I've recorded is only a tenth of the stuff I've composed. Most of it gets discarded. That's how you grow. You don't try to revolutionize the world with every piece. You practice getting the basics right, and do studies in sound constantly, and each piece is an evolution; and once in a while if you're lucky, you have a breakthrough, where you grow in a leap. Very rarely does one land precisely on their feet, and the breakthrough comes out perfectly, rather that it teaches you something radical, that soon becomes another basic for you to draw upon for your subsequent creations.

You grow by trying new things, not just sitting on the same thing over and over. If you're not changing something each time you mess with a piece, it's done and either you record it and move on, or you chuck it and move on. Either way, you move on. When your piece if ready, hopefully you'll notice some new aspect each time you listen to it. If you listen to the piece after it's recorded ten times in a row, and it still sounds good, then it's good. If not, then it's just a lesson. Maybe this should be in the theory section.


Ape

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Message 31/39                 Date: 21-Sep-01  @  10:36 AM   -   RE: It never stops

influx

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sorry sensoniq but I think youre overdoing it

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Message 32/39                 Date: 21-Sep-01  @  01:51 PM   -   RE: It never stops

steve

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its just one of those things you get better at as you go along aint it? I dont really worry about stuff like that, my mixings still snide but its better than its ever been so I just keep doing what feels right and I progress.

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Message 33/39                 Date: 21-Sep-01  @  04:42 PM   -   RE: It never stops

damballah

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"Don't you all focus on one mix adjustment at a time per play?"

NO! ABSOLUTELY NOT!

It's about establishing relationships between things. You can do this all at once or you can do it "foundation up". If you have, let's say, 16 tracks you're dealing with, it shouldn't take you 16 passes to get the volumes worked out, then another 16 for panning, then another 16 for eq, 16 for dynamics, on and on.

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Message 34/39                 Date: 21-Sep-01  @  06:13 PM   -   RE: It never stops

xoxos

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why stress?

yes, and yes.

pe-rson-all-y, it is a pleasure to wallow in my creation. i've whipped tracks out in 24 minutes and not given an ass of thought to the mix (beyond actually raising the fader) the mix can be chaos abnd you add parts to it in that light. and i've spent huge amounts of time just listening to one sound and imagining that far-off headspace where the listener isolates it thru strange fixation.

and then sometimes it doesn't sound right w/o all the masking and mixing.

it's my bedroom, and i can do what i like   maybe i'm not mixing a song, but putting experiences into myself for my duty futurewise.

d - could see an end to my current incarnation soon. i promise you i'll make you glad you did it. i know, maybe you don't care but if you do, it's only a matter of the right time. i gotta be meeeee.

are you all just doing this so i'll write something? wanna build a clubhouse for when we're old and we can make secret pacts guys?

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Message 35/39                 Date: 21-Sep-01  @  07:18 PM   -   RE: It never stops

Yonce N Mild

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Actually somtimes it's a good idea to listen to each track individually in mono to make sure there are no pops clicks or humms that can add noise to or cloud up the mix of course this dosn't mean each track all the way through. For example if you have a loop you only have to listen to it once through but and evolving bass or synth line you should listen to by itself all the way through. I do this when I originally record a track that way I don't have to mess with it later

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Message 36/39                 Date: 22-Sep-01  @  01:58 AM   -   RE: It never stops

sensoniq

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Of course I mix every track in relation to each other...I agree relationships are key. It's just that I do one function at a time, that's how I work. But it doesn't mean that the panning on track one can't be synced to the volume on track 2 which directly corresponds to the inverse volume of track 6, etc., etc.

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Message 37/39                 Date: 22-Sep-01  @  03:24 AM   -   RE: It never stops

influx

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hehe and the square root of the hypoteneuse of the acute angle created by the division of track one into tracks 17 and 13, combined with the penumbra of the function of track 7 all add up to the overall gravitational arch of IO

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Message 38/39                 Date: 23-Sep-01  @  04:09 PM   -   RE: It never stops

Sensoniq

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What planet are you from, Mars? Everybody knows its the SQUARE ROOT of the overall gravitational arch of IO, not the arch itself.

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Message 39/39                 Date: 23-Sep-01  @  06:44 PM   -   RE: It never stops

influx

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