Original Message 1/16                 Date: 05-Mar-01  @  10:17 PM   -   Mixdown (Yamaha 01v)

tomas

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When I play back my own tracks from cd and compare these to commercial cds it seems that the commercial cd's sounds a bit louder. I find this pretty strange cos I usually turn the output on my 01v as loud as possible without reaching clip. Even if I normalize the track in Soundforge I don't get the desired result!! I record the digital out of my 01v into a Live platinum card using soundforge. For sequencing I use Cakewalk. Any suggestions?!?!?!!

/Tomas

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Message 2/16                 Date: 05-Mar-01  @  11:42 PM   -   RE: Mixdown (Yamaha 01v)

influx

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compression limiting EQ etc...

thats what mastering is for really...altho it depends on how good your original is as well

I straight suck at getting good mixes so I know fuckall about it, but...

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Message 3/16                 Date: 06-Mar-01  @  02:36 PM   -   RE: Mixdown (Yamaha 01v)

99devils

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Get the mix going as well as you can
with just the 01V, and then limit it in
Sound Forge (not normalize). Like
Influx said, that's the mastering stage.
You can do it in SF with a limiter, EQ,
and multiband compressor, or get
something like T-Racks for the job. I
think T-Racks is the bomb personally.

-Craig

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Message 4/16                 Date: 06-Mar-01  @  02:40 PM   -   RE: Mixdown (Yamaha 01v)

tomas

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Ok thanks. So what you are saying is that the mix will sound louder by applying a limiter?? I'm a bit confused here!

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Message 5/16                 Date: 06-Mar-01  @  11:31 PM   -   RE: Mixdown (Yamaha 01v)

damballah

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OK, normalizing works like this: you take your loudest peak in the file and adjust that up to full level. The apparent loudness has to do with peak-to-average ratio, that is how many more decibels is something like a kick or a snare hitting than the average level. Live music has a wide range of dynamics. That's what gives it life. In recorded music, 14 db peak-to-average is a good place to be. What typically happens these days is someone says to the mastering engineer "I want it to sound as loud as possible." Or someone buys T-Racks. And they brick-wall limit the material so that the average volume is sitting 3 dbs or so below the peaks. Now when the file is normalized, it sounds 11 db, or a lot, louder than the file with a 14 db peak-to-average ratio. Not better. Louder. Given the Fletcher-Munson effect, in an A-B comparison, louder is perceived as better. But when you equalize the average levels, the more dynamic recording usually sounds better. Ha.

What's really funny is when people start thinking they need 24 bit systems when their end goal is to squish everything into the top 8 or so bits. ha ha ha.

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Message 6/16                 Date: 07-Mar-01  @  02:58 AM   -   RE: Mixdown (Yamaha 01v)

influx

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yeah. haha.

personally I dont like it when my stuff sounds too loud. gets brash to me

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Message 7/16                 Date: 07-Mar-01  @  03:01 AM   -   RE: Mixdown (Yamaha 01v)

tmfkagt

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^ nice one mate...read on my brotha

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Message 8/16                 Date: 07-Mar-01  @  04:44 AM   -   RE: Mixdown (Yamaha 01v)

damballah

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that could just be a case of needing a touch of post-mix eq, influx

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Message 9/16                 Date: 07-Mar-01  @  07:09 AM   -   RE: Mixdown (Yamaha 01v)

phunkytek

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remember though, digital compressors have a tendency to pump. I have an 01v and the compressors are not very good nor are the eq's at shaping the final mix. use free filter with a maximizer plug-in as the limiter after it. Waves L1 is recomended at digital domain as one of the better software based maximizers. www.phonoxone.com makes a good multi-band for under fifty bucks called terminator. multi-band compresion will allow maximization of bass frequencies and prevent pumping. Also use expansion to quite frequencies that stick out in the final mix. The spectral design ME compressor is great for using as a multi-band, compressor expantion, gate. When i graduate in may and start working i am going to buy an avalon 847 dual tube compressor eq and an alesis masterlink. Nothing digital can compare to tube processing. Most pro mixes go through tubes at some point in the mastering process. If you want a good demo then do some mastering to make it better, but if you get signed, they will probably want an unmastered version for a pro master engineer to prepare it for distribution.

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Message 10/16                 Date: 07-Mar-01  @  08:07 PM   -   RE: Mixdown (Yamaha 01v)

influx

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it might be a case of needing to learn what the fuck Im doing, too

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Message 11/16                 Date: 05-Apr-01  @  06:05 PM   -   RE: Mixdown (Yamaha 01v)

8life8

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why do does the sound jump up in volume like crazy when the first hit goes through the 01v compressors, fxample when my 808 snare comes in the first hit will sound way way way too loud but after the first hit its cool then the 808 drops out for a few bars and agaian when it comes in again "first hit" bang to loud! why? r my setting weird anyone else have this problem ??

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Message 12/16                 Date: 05-Apr-01  @  09:14 PM   -   RE: Mixdown (Yamaha 01v)

99devils

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Your attack setting is too long on the compressor, or your threshold is too high, or both. The initial hit is getting through the comp unattenuated.

-Craig

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Message 13/16                 Date: 06-Apr-01  @  01:31 AM   -   RE: Mixdown (Yamaha 01v)

8life8

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thx man I'll look into it .. so the first hit is getting through un-compressed? ..why only the first hit cos the attack? then why not the second ? becouse the release of the first hit? ..I keep my threshold very low most of the time.. i.e compressing all of the sound... dunno I'm new to compressors and I'm tryng to get a compressed effect/sound but it seam that digital compression is more to shape the sound rather than actually give it that "compressed sound"

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Message 14/16                 Date: 06-Apr-01  @  12:02 PM   -   RE: Mixdown (Yamaha 01v)

Jasper

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attack on a compressor means how long it takes to start compressing, so if you set it to 400ms then 400ms worth of sound will pass through the compressor without being compressed before the unit kicks in, this is how you get those punchy sounds. set it to 0 and it will compress instantly, set the release to something fast and then try various ratio/threshold levels, to hear the effect more set a high ratio and a low threshold, but this probably won't sound too musical. mastrering limiters are better at this kind of thing.. the db-audioware plugins sound good.

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Message 15/16                 Date: 06-Apr-01  @  03:14 PM   -   RE: Mixdown (Yamaha 01v)

99devils

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Yes, exactly.. The attack time is too long, so the attack of the first hit is getting through uncompressed.. Then the volume level doesn't dip below the threshold until the kick drops out, so you're getting your compressed kick sound until then. When the kick comes back in, the first attack comes through and then the rest compressed.. Is this accurate?

-Craig

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Message 16/16                 Date: 02-May-01  @  01:26 PM   -   RE: Mixdown (Yamaha 01v)

Spybase

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t-racks is indeed the bomb. i want a hardware version to stick my mix through before it goes out live over a PA but i reckon i'd be looking at a couple of grand...

on the subject, does anyone use multi-band limiting for live stuff, and if not, why not?

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