Original Message 1/26                 Date: 23-Feb-01  @  07:17 PM   -   EQ'ing bass drum and basslines

dance, rummy!

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once again, for the benefit of all, I'd like to hear some thoughts about Eq'ing the bass drum with sub-bass.....
this is geared towards songs with 2 basslines that are working together...



I've heard before that the part of the BD that hits you in the chest is between 100 and 200Hz. Even-handed guy that I am, I usually put a medium-size notch on the sub-bassline at 150Hz, with a cut of 3-5dB, to make room for the bass drum



Also, since I want the sub to come through, I usually roll-off any sub freq's from the bass drum starting about 100Hz using a HPF.



I remain unsatisfied with this approach. It seems too simple, and most times it doesn't get the definition I would like. There has to be something more (better) I can do to increase the definition on the bottom end...




I am hesitant to boost the mids on anything because I'm trying to use another bassline sound above the kick, with little or no sub in it.... d&b heads know what I mean -- that growling HPF'd bassline that keeps whacking your ear while the lower line moves the air....



any comments are welcome.....

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Message 2/26                 Date: 24-Feb-01  @  02:42 PM   -   RE: EQ'ing bass drum and basslines

johnny

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what EQ are you using?

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Message 3/26                 Date: 24-Feb-01  @  06:55 PM   -   RE: EQ'ing bass drum and basslines

rance, dummy!

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I have the Waves EQ plug-in with the Native Power Pack C1 comp, L1 limiter and verb.... they are really nice...


I just keep thinking that there is probably a more sophisticated way to do that EQ'ing, or at least a finishing touch or something... perhaps using the Waves C1 compresser/enhancer settings in combination with some eq.... I'm not really sure what I'm getting at...



maybe there's nothing to get. it might just be I need to use my ears in each individual case, and tweak tweak tweak....




I just thought that 50,000 engineers in 10,000 studios over the past 20 years might have found out some newfangled knob twisting that lets the equip do some the work for you.....



I'm sure those mad d&b scientists have a few tricks they're not revealing...

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Message 4/26                 Date: 24-Feb-01  @  08:27 PM   -   RE: EQ'ing bass drum and basslines

johnny

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Ah, software.

The only tip I can give (its a big one though) is to tweak the frequencies while the mix is playing - if you stop the track and tweak, start everything going, stop, tweak again, you get nowhere fast. You've got to listen to the bass in context and make decisions based on that sound, not the sound in isolation.

And from then on, just mess till it sounds right. It's hard to give specifics because each track is different, with different sounds and rhythms - and these lend themselves to different mixing decisions. And EQs are all different in character, different monitoring rigs and so on... quite a problem in pinning anything down.

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Message 5/26                 Date: 27-Feb-01  @  02:52 PM   -   RE: EQ'ing bass drum and basslines

fredrik

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this is what makes dnb programming a headache, we want our hard, disted fat ugly bassdrum at the same time we want those ultra low subbasses, and after that we also want some crispy mean HPF bassline on top of it ;).. multibandcompression might be the bet, though it's still a tough call, depends alot on what kind of basses we're talking about here, and how loud they go..

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Message 6/26                 Date: 28-Feb-01  @  07:16 AM   -   RE: EQ'ing bass drum and basslines

influx

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over intellectualizing maybe?

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Message 7/26                 Date: 01-Mar-01  @  08:31 AM   -   RE: EQ'ing bass drum and basslines

pongoid

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Just think of it like making a jigsaw puzzle and cut room in each piece to mesh with the others if you can.


Ape

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Message 8/26                 Date: 01-Mar-01  @  10:14 AM   -   RE: EQ'ing bass drum and basslines

ville

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I just playd one of my track with a subwoofer systems and it was horrible. Made me weep...
How can you adjust frequencies under 60 if you just can't possibly hear them!!!

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Message 9/26                 Date: 01-Mar-01  @  06:39 PM   -   RE: EQ'ing bass drum and basslines

johnny

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you just cut 'em out (with a HPF tuned around 60Hz), or you get them mastered in a neutral room with speakers flat to 20Hz.

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Message 10/26                 Date: 01-Mar-01  @  07:21 PM   -   RE: EQ'ing bass drum and basslines

99devils

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That's what I do, too... HPF at 60hz or so.

-Craig

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Message 11/26                 Date: 02-Mar-01  @  07:48 AM   -   RE: EQ'ing bass drum and basslines

teemu

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You could get a set of headphones... speakers that go down to 20hz are expensive (and need to be very large). My 150$ headphones go down to 14hz and you can hear the really low basses rather well. I sometimes work with _really_ low basses that the monitors just can't re-produce. The meters on the mixer are pumping like crazy but you can't hear anything. That's when the phones come in.

Usually, the really low basses get cut in the mastering, though. A hi-pass filter on 40-60 hz with a low Q cuts away most of the unnecessary low-frequency information without introducing any artifacts.

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Message 12/26                 Date: 03-Mar-01  @  02:29 AM   -   RE: EQ'ing bass drum and basslines

influx

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uh...we cant HEAR below what, 20hz? I think your headphones are lying.

I dont know of any systems that can reproduce 14hz anyway..can they?

Id think that anything below 30 is just eating up headroom. am I wrong?

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Message 13/26                 Date: 03-Mar-01  @  11:32 AM   -   RE: EQ'ing bass drum and basslines

johnny

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you can't 'hear' that far down (i.e. discerning pitch), but you can definitely feel it.

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Message 14/26                 Date: 03-Mar-01  @  07:22 PM   -   RE: EQ'ing bass drum and basslines

influx

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right...but can you FEEL it from headphones?

and is there any point in trying to get that much bass in your sounds unless youre going to be played on the most massive and powerful systems?

all this talk about 14hz...just seems so funny to me

30hz would make you puke at huge levels anyway, no?

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Message 15/26                 Date: 04-Mar-01  @  02:00 AM   -   RE: EQ'ing bass drum and basslines

nobody

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i think 7hz at 150db will make you shit yourself

or is that a complete lie

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Message 16/26                 Date: 04-Mar-01  @  04:27 AM   -   RE: EQ'ing bass drum and basslines

influx

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damn that low?

brown noise is a reality

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Message 17/26                 Date: 04-Mar-01  @  06:58 AM   -   RE: EQ'ing bass drum and basslines

damballah

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oh, systems can produce 1 hz if you want them to, but it's just cone motion at that point. usually in speaker specs there's an acceptable level of flatness stated, like 60-16k +/- 3 dB (to pull some numbers out o' me ass). that's not saying nothing under 60 hz isn't coming out of the box. speaker's responses get real unlinear at lower frequencies. and you're not going to impress anybody if you state your response is 20-20k +/- 12 dB. in fact, they'll point at you and snicker.

for reference, low E on a bass guitar is around 42 hz. most people hear the note in the overtones, though.

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Message 18/26                 Date: 04-Mar-01  @  05:02 PM   -   RE: EQ'ing bass drum and basslines

influx

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low E is 42 hertz?

doesnt seem that low. hmmm. damballah with the sound knowledge

guess that happens when you get old

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Message 19/26                 Date: 04-Mar-01  @  05:21 PM   -   RE: EQ'ing bass drum and basslines

damballah

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I don't remember exactly, 42 point something. that's the fundamental tone. it doesn't produce a pure sine wave, though. there's all kinds of harmonics, like 84, 168, etc, plus some odd little ones. try rolling off the treble and mids, then stand in front of a 2x15 cab and play that low E. mmmmmmm.

one of the things that happens when you deal with really low tones, is you need to put in some of those upper-harmonics so that people with merely mortal speakers can hear what's going on. I like running subby stuff out into a speaker (and I've got a few crap ones, crap ones are good for this) and miking it. that gives you some speaker compression and new harmonics. roll the low end off the speaker channel, bring it up so you can hear the bassline, then bring in the sub stuff just enough so there's some feel going on.

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Message 20/26                 Date: 04-Mar-01  @  07:31 PM   -   RE: EQ'ing bass drum and basslines

teemu

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Well, it says 14hz in the manual. Probably not a lie since they aren't exacly some 5$ Wal-Mart phones. They do go _really_ low though. Sometimes I can't hear anything on the monitors (that go down to 57hz at +-3dB, don't know how low frequencies they really can reproduce) but I can hear the bass on the phones. Of course it's not the same as actually hearing and feeling the vibrations in the air but it's good to have something that can actually reproduce the sounds that come from the synthesizers. The ultra-low frequencies will of course be cut in the mastering but still, it's good to know that they are there, eating away the headroom.

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Message 21/26                 Date: 05-Mar-01  @  12:05 PM   -   RE: EQ'ing bass drum and basslines

ville

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I have this testCD with pure sine waves from 20HZ to 22 Khz. You can't really hear anything put you can see meter flashing.
Once i left 20 Khz sinewzve looping at moderate (not very hight) level and left my friend waiting me in my flat while went buying cigarets. When i came back he said that he had a headache and heard wierd "ping" constantly in his head.
I felt terrible.
Headache went away pretty soon after i took the CD out.

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Message 22/26                 Date: 05-Mar-01  @  08:53 PM   -   RE: EQ'ing bass drum and basslines

influx

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yeah, good thing those frequencies are there eating up headroom

and...no, manufacturers NEVER lie about the performance of their product. especially the expensive ones!

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Message 23/26                 Date: 06-Mar-01  @  10:55 PM   -   RE: EQ'ing bass drum and basslines

hector

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did you know tht the nazis used to blow people up in rooms by blasting them with sub bass at 4hz,nasty.

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Message 24/26                 Date: 21-Mar-01  @  06:26 PM   -   RE: EQ'ing bass drum and basslines

damballah

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Ahhh, it's 41.2 fer dat low E. K's got a chart of midi note-->fundamental frequency up in the tech tables section.

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Message 25/26                 Date: 23-Mar-01  @  05:03 AM   -   RE: EQ'ing bass drum and basslines

deetee_sounds

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parametrics is what you want to boost the bass without boosting other shit..- also when boosting the kik on a coomon style mixer with shelving bass eq, it is going to push up the low mid around 200-250hz, muddying up the mid,... so cut some 200-250hz mid with the sweep eq a tad and see if that tightens up the definition -

the main rule for drum & bass that shatters walls tho is... no reverb.. or hardly any cos reverb destroys definition and the percieved volume of sounds - this goes for alot of dance - reverb is a killer unless used just right, so try removing it... your tracks might sound 'dry' at home, but roll off the top end crank it up & it bangs like fuck compared to tracks with lots of reverbs on them.... kiks @ around 100hz for the 'energy' the bass 60-80.. 'roll offf' the bass at 20-40hz for low subass or 40-60 for less boomshaka sounds - and try some soft knee subtle comp on the bass unless your already pumping it.. but get into your comp' alot anyways...

___________________________________

I had an idea for a script once. It's basically Jaws except when the guys in the boat are going after Jaws, they look around and there's an even bigger Jaws. The guys have to team up with Jaws to get Bigger Jaws.... I call it... Big Jaws!!!

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Message 26/26                 Date: 23-Mar-01  @  05:05 AM   -   RE: EQ'ing bass drum and basslines

deetee_sounds

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oh.. and invest in a 12 bit sampler.. they are cheap - and totally untouchable for dance - drums will NEVER have the same 'crack' with a 16 bit smapler at any price - the old emax rules for this task both for price and sound quality.

___________________________________

I had an idea for a script once. It's basically Jaws except when the guys in the boat are going after Jaws, they look around and there's an even bigger Jaws. The guys have to team up with Jaws to get Bigger Jaws.... I call it... Big Jaws!!!

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