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Subject: (Samplers for) techno - drums/construction


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Original Message 1/29                 Date: 15-May-00  @  09:58 PM   -   (Samplers for) techno - drums/construction

dobyrush

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Have a few synths, a Mac, Cubase, all of which I can operate with medium skill. I need a drum source; been looking around and always see Get A Sampler instead.. but I've never used one. Need some basic info on the hows & whys. Trying to keep it relatively simple for now; interested in making tracky/loopy techno -- Samuel Sessions, User/Invasion series, etc. Later on Beyer/'Sweden', Advent, etc. Would love to hear from ppl doing this kind of thing on how the sampler is used (esp for drums/loops), where to get the best sounds, where to start! Thanks.



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Message 2/29                 Date: 16-May-00  @  06:41 AM   -   RE: (Samplers for) techno - drums/construction

Jasper

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I've got a nice loop going at the moment, that really deep throb sort of bass sound that you can't quite pinpoint if it's bass notes or what.. you know what I mean???

first I downloaded this set of drum beats from a3k central called 'bigbeat drum kit'.. loaded in to my a3000. created a couple of nice rythms with it.. lots of kicks all over the shop.. I kept referencing it against the proper kick I'd be using in the track.

once I had two or three nice loops I resampled them in the a3000 as one 4 bar loop (that 3 loops altogether) not sampled at 44khz but 22khz and 10khz on this lo-fi setting the a3000 had (I think it's 8 bit or 12 bit).

then I triggered the loops from the a3000 one of them is lo-pass filtered just to get the throbbing bass. the other os hi-pass filtered and dephased for the trably floaty hi-hats

the whole thing is chucked through a tap-delay which has the bass rolled off so it don't clash with the main rythm... nice.. and it's a great basis for a track.

I'm also compressing the loops together. with the main kick to get that pumping techno sound. the hi-hat loops and proper hi-hats samples are going through distortion to bring out some of the hi-gher harmonics to lift them a bit.

can't stress how important eq balance is on a sound like this, you really need to chuck frequencies together and compress them, eq em to get the balance just right.. the result is that rolling deep bass sound you can allways hear in clubs and on tracks but you can never program straight.. it's a result of pushing stuff together.

erm that any help to ya? I sort of go off on one when it comes to techno rythms  



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Message 3/29                 Date: 16-May-00  @  06:43 AM   -   RE: (Samplers for) techno - drums/construction

Jasper

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umm, read above...

three separate 1 bar loops.

so I could see which ones worked best filtered which way.. (lopass, hipass, band pass, twin dip pass etc etc..)



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Message 4/29                 Date: 16-May-00  @  11:28 AM   -   RE: (Samplers for) techno - drums/construction

dobyrush

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Great info - you can go on and on about techno rhythms as far as I care. That kind of instruction/best practice stuff is hard to come by. Which is kind of the point: where do you learn this stuff? There is no good answer for that, as far as I can tell...



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Message 5/29                 Date: 16-May-00  @  05:48 PM   -   RE: (Samplers for) techno - drums/construction

Chris...

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Live for that kinda bass bro. Excellent info. Question: how do you resample several different loops into one 4 bar loop in the yamaha. I just got a sampler about a week ago, a4k. I really like it especially the loop remix feature but i'm still trying to understand how to manipulate the different features. This is my first sampler so i'm learning everything for the first time. I'm assuming it has something to do with the loop remix, i'm going to read more about it tonight. Any suggsetions? Oh, and go on about the techno rhythms, lovin every minute of it.

Chris...



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Message 6/29                 Date: 16-May-00  @  05:49 PM   -   RE: (Samplers for) techno - drums/construction

Chris...

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Live for that kinda bass bro. Excellent info. Question: how do you resample several different loops into one 4 bar loop in the yamaha. I just got a sampler about a week ago, a4k. I really like it especially the loop remix feature but i'm still trying to understand how to manipulate the different features. This is my first sampler so i'm learning everything for the first time. I'm assuming it has something to do with the loop remix, i'm going to read more about it tonight. Any suggsetions? Oh, and go on about the techno rhythms, lovin every minute of it.

Chris...



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Message 7/29                 Date: 17-May-00  @  04:45 AM   -   RE: (Samplers for) techno - drums/construction

Jasper

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I reckon I confused you with my bad choice of words above about the resampling.

Firstly get yourself down to www.a3kcentral.com and go to the samples section. Download the two files called bigbeat1 and bigbeat2 these two files can be saved to two floppies and then loaded into your sampler as 1 sound bank.

Tell you what, If I can get my connection at home working I'll upload the midi file I used to create the rythm with bigbeat using the midi thingy here... but I aint promising cos my phone has developed this really bad line noise which is affecting my connection.



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Message 8/29                 Date: 17-May-00  @  04:45 AM   -   RE: (Samplers for) techno - drums/construction

Jasper

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anyway - back to the techno

when you've got a nice pattern going what you do is press rec on the sampler, by default it will be set to record whatever is playing on the stereo outs.. this is supposed to have a max polyphony of 4 notes (on the a3000) but in practice it seems more. If you press the (doing this from memory btw :P ) sample button it will take you to the recording options, here you can set things like sample frequency etc, changing the frequency while the pattern (from the seq) is playing will let you hear how the different settings sound..

using 22khz lo-fi/11 khz lo-fi/8 khz lofi is great for loops cos they won't take over the mix and sound too clean.. basically set the sequencer to play the pattern once, press the program button to take you to the record page and press record, play the pattern and the sample is recorded.. now if you press audition the loop you have just sampled will play... if your happy change the freq to 11khz and press rec again, play and the second loop will be recorded... etc.



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Message 9/29                 Date: 17-May-00  @  04:47 AM   -   RE: (Samplers for) techno - drums/construction

Jasper

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just build up variations on your loop.. then you need to map em to keys and a channel.. set filter types.. just experiment really.

try putting a 22khz loop through the comp/overdrive effect with these setting on the effect (slow attack/fast release/-30db/whatever ratio sound good/up the output to around 100) = techno!

I never use the loopremix myself - it's good mind but I get a real kick out of crafting my own stuff.. good for messing your own stuff up though and vocals.. the loop-divide is pure class.. cuts up a loop and maps it automatically.. here's a tip - create a loop and overdrive it, resample it, loop-divide it, create a new loop from that... etc, etc, etc.. eventually you have something that just sounds so fucked up completely yours.



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Message 10/29                 Date: 17-May-00  @  04:47 AM   -   RE: (Samplers for) techno - drums/construction

Jasper

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just build up variations on your loop.. then you need to map em to keys and a channel.. set filter types.. just experiment really.

try putting a 22khz loop through the comp/overdrive effect with these setting on the effect (slow attack/fast release/-30db/whatever ratio sound good/up the output to around 100) = techno!

I never use the loopremix myself - it's good mind but I get a real kick out of crafting my own stuff.. good for messing your own stuff up though and vocals.. the loop-divide is pure class.. cuts up a loop and maps it automatically.. here's a tip - create a loop and overdrive it, resample it, loop-divide it, create a new loop from that... etc, etc, etc.. eventually you have something that just sounds so fucked up completely yours.



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Message 11/29                 Date: 17-May-00  @  04:48 AM   -   RE: (Samplers for) techno - drums/construction

Jasper

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you sort of pick this stuff up, like one day you fucking hate writing it cos you don't go anywhere, the next you've discovered how a compressor can really push a loop out and it all starts rolling again. I suppose my best tip is to use sounds out of loops like a snare hear and a kick there and build up a really huge mapped drumkit that becomes your main loop creation device.. that way no-one can accuse you of just using someone elses loops, don't worry if they aint perfectly clean or layered with a hat or summit cos that's is what you want... epecially for dirty heavy techno..

shit.. better do some work..

----

why won't this server accept long-ish posts??



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Message 12/29                 Date: 17-May-00  @  09:40 AM   -   RE: (Samplers for) techno - drums/construction

Chris

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Jasper

Excellent excellent excellent!@!! Can't tell ya how much i appreciate the info. This is exactly what i needed to push me in the right direction. i'm going to slice into it tonight. I'll let ya know how things go in a couple of days. All i can say is i'm totally excited. Thanks very much... Chris



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Message 13/29                 Date: 17-May-00  @  10:17 AM   -   RE: (Samplers for) techno - drums/construction

Jasper

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cheers  

a couple of points about recording.. if you use the auto level recording (it'll wait for a signal over a certain level before recording starts, and stops after the sound) there will probably be a gap of around 600 at the start of the sample that is space. Use the sample start/end function to remove this bit (use the zero seek ON to make it easier to get a good start point) or the loop won't quite match up.

An easy way of doing this is to detune the sample by about -50 while you search for the beginning of it.

about the bigbeat drum kit - unzip each file to it's own floppy and load it with floppy 1 into a3k then when it asks load up floppy2 (the a3k gives a wierd message - bloody japs!   )

don't be put off when your first attempts sound crap.. cos it takes me a while to get something useable.. just keep at it.

have fun!



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Message 14/29                 Date: 18-May-00  @  12:37 PM   -   RE: (Samplers for) techno - drums/construction

Chris...

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I have record released by Sonic Groove records NYC, got it a couple years ago. I believe the artist was jasper, was that yours???



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Message 15/29                 Date: 19-May-00  @  04:05 AM   -   RE: (Samplers for) techno - drums/construction

Jasper

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No but I've heard of the artist.

btw. how are the grooves coming on?



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Message 16/29                 Date: 19-May-00  @  09:03 PM   -   RE: (Samplers for) techno - drums/construction

Chris

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Heh he, well.... I should tell you i just got this sampler recently so i haven't even gotten this far yet. I got a nice groove so far but i keep running into other problems that end up taking up so much time i never get the chance to edit the samples and join em like ya said. This sampler when ya first get it can be a bit of a headache at times. But do check back over the weekend cause i'm going to try recording the edits this weekend, hopefully tonight. I'm sure i might have a question for ya, but i promise i won't bury ya. Thanks Jasper and have great weekend bro!!!



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Message 17/29                 Date: 19-May-00  @  10:17 PM   -   RE: (Samplers for) techno - drums/construction

Mod

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hmm...

wierd...

This is the ideal kind of exchange of experience that can occur online.

Very rare; well done!



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Message 18/29                 Date: 22-May-00  @  07:11 AM   -   RE: (Samplers for) techno - drums/construction

Jasper

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all the planets are aligned,

thought I'd relate this nugget of info you might need, I was messing with the loop I created, couldn't get the swine to sound good in the track. but on it's own or with just the kick/hats it sounded great..

fixed it by dragging the loop back 4 places at (1/196ths resolution), so were talking miliseconds difference in the point it plays in relation to the kick.

I'm trying to say that if it sounds like it's in time in relation to the kick, it might not be but you ears might be doing the work of getting it in time in your head.. try it and see.



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Message 19/29                 Date: 22-May-00  @  09:53 AM   -   RE: (Samplers for) techno - drums/construction

Chris...

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Hey Jasper, everything seemed to go quite well, thanks again. I feel like i just jumped about a year ahead of where i would have been. Only question i could come up with is about compression. I'm not quite sure how ya get a proper setting. I always feel lost when it comes to compression. Do you actualy hear the difference when your setting the parameters, or do you just have like a magic # that ya usually use? Do you compress the high loop together, the low end, then compress it all together? Anyway, that info was fantastic!! That Lofi grit just rocks!!! Late Chris...



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Message 20/29                 Date: 22-May-00  @  10:45 AM   -   RE: (Samplers for) techno - drums/construction

Jasper

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Sound...

Read this
((http://www.sospubs.co.uk/ and do a search for compression.. about 4th article down list))


Basically slow attack and fast release for compression on loops, tweak to taste. read the article and see how you get on.

btw.. try cutting up your own loops for extra ideas .



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Message 21/29                 Date: 31-May-00  @  05:20 PM   -   Thanks for the posts

dminusk

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I've been flipping thought the posts here and its always nice to see how other people work. Recently I just gutted my studio to use mostly digital cables to push in and out of compressors, samplers, effects, and the computer. I still have an analog mixer but the computer connects to all devices digitally allowing me to easily send one track or 10 to the compressor or the sampler. This makes experimenting SOOO much easier than routing cables or signal paths on the mixer AND it sounds better. Techno is best made from experimenting and I think the Chemical Brothers once said 'Try anything... try everything you can think of if it doesn't sound good then you know...' or something to that effect.

Cheers -

d-k



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Message 22/29                 Date: 06-Jun-00  @  08:41 PM   -   Somebody Please help me!! Any body?

Vetikon

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Hey


Great info. Only one prob, i have no clue what ur saying. I totally new to this whole thing, i purchased a Roland DR 202 drum machine about a year ago and i finally have some time to really use it but i couldn't produce a drum beat if u held a gun to my head. I don't know if its instruction, trial and error
or just comes naturally. I listen to variety of different types and genres of music as well as having a musical background in piano myself. Ne way enough bull. How on earth to i get started,
If ANY body has any tips tricks or suggestions please email directly at Vetikon@hotmail.com


Thanx and keep on puttn out the info!




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Message 23/29                 Date: 07-Jun-00  @  04:51 AM   -   RE: (Samplers for) techno - drums/construction

Jasper

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it's a bit difficult to help here because if I get a drum machine trigger it with yer typical kick/hat/clap beat then yes it does sound boring... thing is to manipulate those sounds with fx and the like and follow the advice above about experimentation.

you probably need a bit more than just the drum machine to create really killer grooves, but you should be able to get a long way with the stuff you can get on a pc, fruity loops pro is great for building sample based loops.



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Message 24/29                 Date: 20-Jun-00  @  07:46 PM   -   RE: (Samplers for) techno - drums/construction

Chris...

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Hey Jasper, or anyone else kind enough to respond of course, Been working like a madman on the drum grooves. Got a question for ya about triggereing the samples in the a4k. Big beat loop settings are set to Forward, no loop, (arrow to the right, no circle). I use Cubase 3.7's drum editor. Samples are sound real short. When i set my samples up i set them for one shot. What's the difference and why? Listenng to some jungle stuff and i notice that they sometimes triger only half a sample and that sounds tight occasionaly. what's your preference?

Thanks bro.
Chris...



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Message 25/29                 Date: 21-Jun-00  @  06:07 AM   -   RE: (Samplers for) techno - drums/construction

Jasper

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set the env release time while the sample is playing to hear what I think you mean.. the 1 shot trigger is just standard type of play.. anything else is in looping territory. is you set the env stuff from within the bigbeat bank it'll change all the samples env globaly.



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Message 26/29                 Date: 21-Jun-00  @  06:10 AM   -   RE: (Samplers for) techno - drums/construction

Jasper

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I tend to have a release time of around 80 to 100 and I rely on the length of the notes in logic to dictate if the sample plays whole or half.



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Message 27/29                 Date: 22-Jun-00  @  05:50 PM   -   RE: (Samplers for) techno - drums/construction

Chris...

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Hey Jasper,

Posted this to the a3k list but not sure if your on it so i figured i'd post it here also. Trying to find the secret formula to create the classic Techno, kick ya in da ass, ride cymbal. Tried Comp, Dist, Delay, and it aint really doing the trick. Also when are ya suppose to use reverb, just on toms and hand drums or with cymbals too? How about kick drums?

Thanks



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Message 28/29                 Date: 24-Jun-00  @  11:05 AM   -   RE: (Samplers for) techno - drums/construction

0/d

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Is there an A3k list?

Does it support the A5k?



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Message 29/29                 Date: 25-Jun-00  @  01:29 AM   -   RE: (Samplers for) techno - drums/construction

dobyrush

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Yes. Yes.
http://www.teklab.com/mailman/listinfo/a-list



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