Original Message 1/10                 Date: 12-May-00  @  11:45 PM   -   The enigma of swing revisited

Pongoid

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I believe I asked for info in this before, but I can't seem to find the answers I was looking for, so I'll ask again. Does anybody here know how to adjust swings for different feels in terms of moving notes on and off at 96ppq? For example, straight 16ths would fall at 0, 24, 48, and 72. Where do they fall for swung 16th's? What about triplets? Obviously it's going to change with how hard you want to swing the notes, but I guess what I'm looking for is which adveance, and which retard in relation to each other. Thanks.


Ape

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Message 2/10                 Date: 13-May-00  @  01:12 AM   -   RE: The enigma of swing revisited

damballah

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Shit, dude, this is like math.

Swing is typically when every other eighth note is retarded. If you swing an 8th note pattern 75%, which I believe is the standard swing time, you have a pattern of dotted-8th/16th/dotted-8th/16th. That would be 00-72 with the 16th note pattern being 00-36-72-80. Or if you want to swing your 16ths, you could try beats on 00-36-48-84. See what feels better.

For eighth note triplets, those would fall every 32 clockes. Straight triplets would therefore 00-32-64. Triplet (or 66%) swing would be 00-64, or again, every other one. 16th note triplets would be every 16 clocks -- 00-16-32-48-64-80. For swung 1/8 triplets, stick em at 00-32-64-80, if you're swinging the 16th go 00-32-48-80. See what you think.

Smaller swing percentages can be cool, too. Push every other one back say 3 clocks or so.

Hope this helps.

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Message 3/10                 Date: 13-May-00  @  09:27 AM   -   RE: The enigma of swing revisited

damballah

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Ah, crap, the breaks fell out of that.

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Message 4/10                 Date: 15-May-00  @  02:24 PM   -   RE: The enigma of swing revisited

Pongoid

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Tanx, bro. Check out Super Collider, and listen to their style of swing. Tell me what you think.

Ape

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Message 5/10                 Date: 17-May-00  @  10:17 PM   -   RE: The enigma of swing revisited

damballah

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Super Collider, huh? I've got Head On here. They're doing a little of all that stuff. Very tight rhythm programming, almost like a jazz drummer sitting in. Not full blown swing time, just pushing the hat parts around for feel. F'rinstance, Track 2, "Darn," they're doing a little tension and release thing. Kicks and snares falling right on the quarter notes with the hats rushed a clock or two in the first half of the measure and relaxed in second half, only pushed a couple of clocks forward or back. Sort of a push-pull effect. They're also working the velocities, so those quick little hat rhythms don't seem too mechanical. Yeah, their programming is very "drummer-esque." Sly and Robbie do that sort of thing, too -- lay back a little on the second half of the measure and rush the downbeat ever so slightly.

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Message 6/10                 Date: 19-May-00  @  06:15 PM   -   RE: The enigma of swing revisited

Pongoid

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Yeah, 'Darn..' is bad ass, but the one that gets me is 'Pay it away'. Just mindblowing, all of it, but that tune in particular, I'm just amazed. I guess it's just something you have to spend time on, but I'm wondering how the hell they came up with those feels. It's all so in-the-pocket. It's one of the first bodies of work that has successfully made the crossover of using the electronic medium in a worthy attempt to obtain an organic feel, in my opinion. Until this point I was quite against the idea of trying to give a machine an human feel, rather just use a real drummer if you want that feel, using electronic pads, if you want something other than true drum sounds. Now I'm starting to have second thoughts. So, that's actually the type of swing I'm after. Not just the typical formula, 'set the 909's shuffle to 5 or 6' stuff. Nasty swings. Any ides as to where to lok for that stuff?

Ape

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Message 7/10                 Date: 19-May-00  @  07:26 PM   -   RE: The enigma of swing revisited

damballah

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Disc's over at my office now. I'll check "Pay it away." Sequencer swing or shuffle can be annoying, and "humanize" might as well be "make unusable".

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Message 8/10                 Date: 27-May-00  @  09:59 AM   -   RE: The enigma of swing revisited

Pongoid

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So, what do you think? How the hell did they come up with that feel?

Ape

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Message 9/10                 Date: 31-May-00  @  01:25 AM   -   RE: The enigma of swing revisited

damballah

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Would you accept a "fuck if I know?" Kinda steady for a bit, then goes apeshit (pardon the expression). Funky as all hell. There's points in that song where I can hardly follow it.



A couple of guesses: A) They've got odd-timed bars strategically placed in there (2/4, 3/4, 7/8) so things aren't coming back in where you'd expect they might. B) They resample the shit out of their grooves and reassemble 'em. C) Logic lets you extract grooves from audio files and apply those to your midi. D) Triggers attached to a drum kit and one of these guys can play the fuck out of 'em.



Do you have any idea of their kit or working techniques?

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Message 10/10                 Date: 31-May-00  @  09:21 PM   -   RE: The enigma of swing revisited

Pongoid

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I know that Vogel has the cash for top of gear. Period. Lidell has had a few releases as well. I'm sure he's not doing too badly. I don't know who the player is. Very very bad ass human beings. But that's the kind of feels I'm looking for. I know guys who can play that tightly, but none closeby, and none with time. Guess this gonna take a little more figgerin out. Thanks.

Ape

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