Original Message 1/24                 Date: 03-May-00  @  10:55 AM   -   Drum N Bass Rattling Snares

s.m.bradley

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Okay I think I worked out the typical drum n bass pattern.

I have some questions :

1.) Where do I put the Hi Hats ???

2.) How do you get those manic 400bpm snare rolls over the top ?? How do you program them ? Are they programmed or are they just lifted from other sources ?

3.) What else do people do to the grooves to get that Drum n Bass feel ???


I've read through this forum and people have offered some great help. But I really am struggling with this and could do with some help. A nice long indepth tutorial from start to finish would be great. No one seems to have done that yet, It really would help some of us who are struggling.

Equipment I have :

Alesis SR16
Casio RZ 1
Yamaha DJX
Novation Super Bass Station
Juno 6

Pentium II 350, with cubase 3.65, fruity loops, rebirth, sound Forge, Wave Surgeon and loads of other bits n bobs.

The PC has a Sound Blaster Live! in it which can be used like a sampler until I can afford a one (if I need one that is).

Thanks

Scott

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Message 2/24                 Date: 03-May-00  @  09:22 PM   -   RE: Rattling Snares

joker

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in a nutshell.. (try the search for longer discussion about it)...learn this groove...

123, 123, 12 and 123, 123, 123, 123, 12-12

like flamenco...

now tap it over the above riddim from Photek...

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Message 3/24                 Date: 04-May-00  @  06:08 AM   -   smapler

Jasper

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>>The PC has a Sound Blaster Live! in it which can be used like a sampler until I can afford a one (if I need one that is).

ha ha ha, sorry but yeah you do need a smapler.

I noticed that the s2000 is going for 400 quid now... flipping eck!! I paid 1000 for one of those 5 years ago ,and for drum n bass they are great cos they have this really crisp punchy sound.. you could do worse.. stay away from the dj phrase samplers though.. the s2000 is as low as you can go and still have all the features you need.

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Message 4/24                 Date: 04-May-00  @  07:20 AM   -   RE: Rattling Snares

s.m.bradley

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What will the Akai do for me ???

I am thinking about getting one, the sound blaster does sound weak ! But I think I need to do something with that before I can justify spending 400 quid on more kit. I may buy it and still not be able to do anything which would be a waste.

Anyway can you tell me how to go about writing the rattling snares in Drum n Bass, is a sampler going to help me do this ??? If so how ?

Scott

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Message 5/24                 Date: 04-May-00  @  01:02 PM   -   RE: Rattling Snares

k

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you dont need more kit depending on the drum sounds you want to use, the SR is ok if TWEAKED well for certain styles, although it aint gonna get you breakbeat-loops, but U can use the h/d sequencer tracks for loop-bitz..

what is a 'rattling snare' by the way - it's the thread title, but you never make clear what you mean by it, it's not in the original question

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Message 6/24                 Date: 04-May-00  @  01:33 PM   -   RE: Rattling Snares

r-tek

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I think he means those little ghost snare rolls around the main hits. 2 start off, just program the main beats in eigths and then experiment with putting quieter 16th note snares around the beats towards the end of the bar. Learn the basic rules of that and then start experimenting. Try the basic beat above too - do 2 bars though and have the 1st without the little shuffles of the shakers and ghost snares at the end (if that makes sense). Mess around with the accents 2 geddit stepping and then experiment with pushing and pulling the beats 2 add some swing.

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Message 7/24                 Date: 05-May-00  @  03:59 AM   -   RE: Rattling Snares

s.m.bradley

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Thanks for your help, I'm no Jungle master so I can't think of a tune that will describe what I mean.

You get the basic 2 step or whatever you want to call it and then over that are quieter flurries of snares that are played very fast, too fast to play by hand.

But when I try it with my drum machine or using samples, it sounds too robotic.


Scott

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Message 8/24                 Date: 05-May-00  @  07:15 AM   -   RE: Rattling Snares

k

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triplet delay playing riddims again as above with that 12 time thing... it all goes back to that 12 time cross riddim... it's the foundation of reggea, ragga & jungle & then drum & bass...

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Message 9/24                 Date: 05-May-00  @  08:24 AM   -   RE: Rattling Snares

s.m.bradley

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Can you explain what triplet delay is !

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Message 10/24                 Date: 05-May-00  @  11:26 AM   -   RE: Rattling Snares

k

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well i'll give you an example then once you hear it, you can reproduce it at any tempo - with a 4/4 'boom-tish' beat at 137 bpm, set the delay to 328 ms.... that is the delay you need... but the placement of the drums get influenced by that delay... i'll say it again tho... that 12-time thing is real important !!...

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Message 11/24                 Date: 05-May-00  @  03:17 PM   -   RE: Rattling Snares

Jasper

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the sampler will help you later when your ready for one, but they are bloody usefull. I can't stress how mutch.

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Message 12/24                 Date: 09-May-00  @  10:53 AM   -   RE: Rattling Snares

s.m.bradley

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Aah You mean Delay as in the effect !! I thought it was some drumming term.

What I found was that if I produce a break beat on the Alesis SR16 at around 135bpmn with plenty of interesting ghost snares. Sample it into the PC and then pitch shift it up to 170bpm and then chop it up into 8ths and shift the 8ths round till you end up with about 15 different versions. Then plot these in Cubase into say 16 bars, finding the versions which work together.

The question is should I pitch shift or Timestretch ??

To me the Pitchshiffted version sound better/tighter.

Am I on the right track or do you lot just write the breaks at 170BPM straight off ? It's just that the Alesis snares are not tight enough. I guess this where a sampler comes in. I looked at the Akai 2000 but it has no onboard FX, this is a little worrying. What do you reckon ? Is the 2000 worth buying or is it old technology ? What about the Yamaha 3000 ?


Cheers for your help


Scott

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Message 13/24                 Date: 09-May-00  @  12:06 PM   -   RE: Rattling Snares

bleeder

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k,
when you say "12-time", you mean triplet timing, right?

I'm not sure what you mean by 12-time.
also, are all of this site's midi grooves stored somewhere?

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Message 14/24                 Date: 10-May-00  @  09:01 AM   -   RE: Rattling Snares

k

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mate... 12 time is 12 time.... ok lets check it... Rock music mostly is in 4 time.... 1,2,3,4 - 1,2,3,4 - etc.... but if you count THREE's over a 4 time beat, then they can resolve at any point where the number is a divisible of 4 AND 3... such as 12.... so counting 3's... 1,2,3-1,2,3-1,2 = 8 .... comprendez?...

3 time patterns feature is a huge amount of world music, and 3 time is something to look at in detail

so... roots stuff now.... take a beat on your sequencer... 1,2,3,4 --- now... count over that click... 1,2,3 - 1,2,3 - 1,2,3 - 1,2,3 - 1,2 - 1,2

now... remove the 2's and 3's.. just concemtrate in your mind on the accented ONE of the triplet overlay...

ok... now count over the beat this:

1,2,3 - 1,2,3 - 1,2 - 1,2,3 - 1,2,3 - 1,2

againt.. feel the accent of the first beat of the triplet patterns...

that is the essence of reggea mate... and ragga, and drum & bass & jungle and dancehall...

can you feel it?.. or do you need some midifiles posting?

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Message 15/24                 Date: 10-May-00  @  09:32 AM   -   RE: Rattling Snares

s.m.bradley

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My music theory ain't so good. But do you count 3 beats in a 4 beat bar or is one bar divided into 3 instead of 4 say ?

Midi files would be cool.

Scott

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Message 16/24                 Date: 10-May-00  @  09:36 AM   -   RE: Rattling Snares

clotting

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ahhhh.... now I see the light! Thanks for the nice walk-thru, you're a great help....

I just downloaded onedrop.mid, ragga.mid and peanut and peanut2.mid from a search of this forum.... I'll check them out tonight.....

I like to work with midi files... I love that beat mechanics shit..... so if you have any more of this midi stuff, please post' em, or let me know where I can get them.....


thanks again....

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Message 17/24                 Date: 10-May-00  @  10:03 AM   -   RE: Rattling Snares

Jasper

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you can list em from this forum on the main page.

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Message 18/24                 Date: 10-May-00  @  11:21 AM   -   RE: Rattling Snares

s.m.bradley

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Any chance of answering my question a couple of posts up so I can understand this more.

Cheers for all your help

Scott

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Message 19/24                 Date: 10-May-00  @  01:51 PM   -   RE: Rattling Snares

scabbed over

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found 'em.... fukn great. there's a great thread attached to the 12time.mid file that's a big help.

this site rocks.

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Message 20/24                 Date: 11-May-00  @  03:30 AM   -   RE: Rattling Snares

component_1

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Fun,Fun,fun simple break that can go in any erection...Blah Blah blah,,,,Any higher grides than this.....Like a 32 or a 64 or my favorite 256 or 512 ? 16th is very borrrrrrrring..... mooo cluck/cluck/cluck/cluck/AND A*****mooo cluck/cluck/cluck/cluck

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Message 21/24                 Date: 11-May-00  @  07:07 AM   -   RE: Rattling Snares

Jasper

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heh heh, it's that old goa trance track...

moooo. moooo

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Message 22/24                 Date: 11-May-00  @  08:55 AM   -   RE: Rattling Snares

k

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ok, here's a file... you got a straight 4/4 beat from a C_1 kik-drum.... there is a closed hat pattern, and a secondary kik drum on C_0 --- there is also a sidestick/rimshot on C#1 --- anyways, you can see how the 12 time triplet pattern fits into the 4/4 beat....

then listen to that Photek track again

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Message 23/24                 Date: 11-May-00  @  09:02 AM   -   RE: Rattling Snares

Jasper

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I'm gonna techno up this old ska track "longshot kick de bucket" the bassline is well dub, well pre-dub.. I tried once before and couldn't get a good feel, but if I remember I never went into 12time.. heh, no wonder it sounded crap  

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Message 24/24                 Date: 11-May-00  @  09:08 AM   -   RE: Rattling Snares

k

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3_time_theory.mid

whoops.... here's the file... 3 time

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