Original Message 1/24                 Date: 08-Jan-00  @  01:39 AM   -   Basslines/drum grooves relationship

Jojo the dog faced boy

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Ok just wondering
how attached does a bassline get to a rythmn and what makes it groove and etc.

Actually the question is impossible to phrase so let me put it like this.

what (in your expierence)is the relationship between the bass line and the rythmn and how is it done?

Thanking thou in advance,
the dog faced boy

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Message 2/24                 Date: 08-Jan-00  @  09:36 AM   -   RE: Basslines/drum grooves relationship

sitar

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It all depends on what one is writing IMO. I like when a bassline adds a syncopation to the drum line so that it sounds like one intermeshed line as if the base was playing off the snr or kick.

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Message 3/24                 Date: 08-Jan-00  @  11:50 AM   -   RE: Basslines/drum grooves relationship

sitar

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Just to clarify a little. When the bassline is playing something that would stand on its' own but when put together with the rhythm, it syncopates at spots in the loop.

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Message 4/24                 Date: 08-Jan-00  @  01:37 PM   -   RE: Basslines/drum grooves relationship

DeltaSleep

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traditionally a bassline is tied with the bass drum. but this isn't exactly a tradional place of music now is it?

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Message 5/24                 Date: 09-Jan-00  @  10:29 AM   -   RE: Basslines/drum grooves relationship

k

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true, depends on style for the detail, but in essence, all bassline are a cross drum pattern/riddim working with the bass to create the right 'push' and feel for the desired groove - so try programming the bass by tapping away on the keys BUT IGNORE THE NOTES...(PITCH) - JUST concentrate on tapping out a complimentary riddim that works with the drums.. then record it (yup with all the wierd bum notes, or all on the same note)... then get into edit window and correct the notes for pitch to create any melody, but whilst tapping away to record the pattern, concentrate ONLY on the pattern, and the gate-time (length) of the notes to get the feel with the drums - the other options after that/with that , is to build other fx into the pattern, from pitch-bends, to other synthesis controller tweaks that further compliment ot characterise the pattern

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Message 6/24                 Date: 09-Jan-00  @  11:45 AM   -   RE: Basslines/drum grooves relationship

jojo the dog faced boy

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thanking you in a large way for your help

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Message 7/24                 Date: 22-Jan-00  @  03:37 PM   -   RE: Basslines/drum grooves relationship

paradiddle16

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Bass & drums relation can vary depending on what you wanna achieve as groove or effect. If you look at reggae, the bass drum is on 2 & 4, sometimes on all for beats (it's called a one-drop).

Here's a samba I got from a drummer/percussionit called Airto. Have fun

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Message 8/24                 Date: 22-Jan-00  @  08:38 PM   -   RE: Basslines/drum grooves relationship

sox

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Sorry to have to correct you Paradiddle but as a matter of fact the Bass Drum in reggae plays on beat 3 and not 2 and 4 as you stated (it's the guitar that plays on 2 and 4). Dropping the BD and Snare together on beat 3 is a "one drop". Check Bob Marley's One Drop for further reference to that style of groove.
I believe the 4 on the floor BD is called Uptown (it's been awhile since I've had to think about name for the grooves) and is probably best exemplified by the live version of Jammin' on Babylon by Bus.

Nice Samba though.

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Message 9/24                 Date: 23-Jan-00  @  12:31 PM   -   RE: Basslines/drum grooves relationship

k

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hmm... ive added basic classic reggea grooves in the drum-groove midi-files page (see lower right main drumgroove-forum page to access the list)... but there are lots of reggea styles

the pounding 4 on the floor kik with the syncopated tambourine used to be called a step or 'stepper' beat which first appeared on tracks like 'MPLA'

it isnt really correct to say that about the kiks, that 'one-drop' style does have it all coming down on the 3 , but reggea has soooo many variations incorporating as it does African, latin & european ideas.... old style lovers or dancehall etc has kiks on 1 & 3 - try a track like 'Stuck on you' Trevor walters for a classic old-style dancehall with the kik on 1 & 3 - or the classic 'sleng-teng' bassline/drum pattern... all are walking 1/3 beats like say 'herb man hustling' used as a basis

if you go for real king david stuff like Ras Micheal you get the classic 1/3 accent nhyabingi style... like on say 'jah would never give the power to a baldhead' by the wailers, (a more well know track with that style) ...... the beat piles in for a heavey downbeat on the One, then releases on the 3 for the 'drop' on 4 before the beat on 1 again...

you also have swing-style walking beat variations like on say 'Oh Jah' by aswad where the kik plays like: b-boom / b-boom / b- b- b- boom... or the classic 'Peanut-Vendor' from the old days.... and on some of the old roots radics stuff you even get triplet swing stuff with a walking kik and drum pattern in a jazzy style... almost like a reggea version of say a Pointer-sisters or nina simone or Miss-T jazz style (heh heh, i actually met Miss-T last year in London we are supposed to go drinking sometime!) -

there is alot of variety in the old backing team styles from JA like sly & robbie, cos they all grew up as kids working the caberet bands in the tourist spots night after night -

i'd say all in all, techno & classic old-trance styles have straight-feel basslines which provide more of a 'Pulse' and drive, while house basslines add extra notes offbeat to work with the basic straight 4 on the floor house kik to make funkier riddims... (generally... not a rule)

lets look at that a bit...

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Message 10/24                 Date: 13-Mar-00  @  10:01 PM   -   the classic 1/3 accent nhyabingi style

d-ramge

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kilo, could you go into the "the classic 1/3 accent nhyabingi style" in a little bit more detail... whats the time sig? could you wrtie out pattern? (midi dosn't do me any good, =( )

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Message 11/24                 Date: 14-Mar-00  @  08:38 PM   -   RE: Basslines/drum grooves relationship

k

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well, it's a religious philosophy really, and the music that goes with it carries the same name.... just get down to a record shop specialist, and get an album by 'Ras Micheal & the Sons & Daughters of Negus' - check it out.. for an instant hit try that link above... as i was taught it, it is essentially african hand drum riddims, but also when you played it was like an event ... (& a lifestyle if you can deal with the discipline required) ... you smoke tons of weed, and play drums... for hours and hours, and trust me... nuff wierd things can happen at those times, some of the guys i met during that period had a very marked effect on me... and there is the 'Reasoning' also, which in these totally utter bullshit times, i REALLY miss... where you sit and discuss things like real men.. 'Reason' things outso the music is like music which goes with that philosophy and lifestyle... but really, it isnt the same on disk, although you can hear it... it is the event and the participation which is so important i think.... it seemed to have an actual tangiable intellectual & spiritual purpose.... some of those guys have alot of power man , but by that, i mean a power born thru innocence and resistance to corruption to create a 'shining' individual... the best way i can describe it is you 'open' emotionally and whatever is inside comes out... bad or good, and you cannot hide it ... it'll show like a stain...a word of warning tho.. be VERY careful... dont play with that EVER, cos those that play get hurt.. nuff brothers have gone insane thru messing with it... Also, you MUST treat the Herb with respect... it is not something you just skin up and puff like a cigarette, be very concious of the herb, treat it with respect dont 'indulge' in it... and you cant smoke any of that chemically grown skunk crazy-brain shit neither.. gotta be pure organic bush...the music itself essentially seems to be constructed of 8's played with a mix of 3/3/2 & 4/4.. like most african based music, it has 3 time feel in there ... it drops in on a big ONE-two then comes 'the drop' where there is a gap, and the treble drum/skin-edge/rim plays a likkle riff in that gap... to actually play that style, essentially, you just get stoned, and arrange yourself over the drum in a relaxed way... raise your hands above the head, and just drop both hands onto it... count silent 4's with the right hand (if right handed)... so like the starter basic pattern/s is ...BANG-two (-3 -4 *silent-count) / BANG-two (-3 -4 *silent-count) / BANG-Two - diddle-iddle) / BANG-two (-3 -4 *silent-count) heh heh - the BANG is where you drop both hands on the head.. but it is all relaxed, keep the shoulders & neck etc totally relaxed, and rather than banging the heads, just raise your shoulders & drop them, allowing your hands to fall onto the head center (bass) - it's subtly different to 'hitting' a hand drum - if you get the dropping of the hands right and are relaxed enuff, then the right hand bounces off and drop back down again to create the second beat the TWO grace beat... This creates the initial ONE-two of the beat, which can be further embellished by adding trap & bass drums which play the ONE (and two as offbeat emphasis) similarly to the way a samba Surdo section plays an offbeat bass drum on the two whilst the rest of the group plays 3 time over the top resolving at naturally occuring mathmatical points where divisions of 3 & 4 naturally occur ... then come variations... and i cant really describe those.. just listen to some.. there is skip variations done by holding in 3 time feels etc...for a more commercially available track, try 'This Train' - Bunny Wailer... off the 'Blackheart Man' album (Island) - try that link above for some Nyahbingi from 1961, and see this page for more info on Ras Tafari & Nyabinghi...http://members.aol.com/PraizeJAH/Nya1.htmlalso there is some Ras Micheal & others at this website which also has some great resources for world drumming lessons/tapes, kids drumming books/tapes/cd's etc etc etc...
http://www.rhythmtraders.com/html/worldm.html#anchornyabi... enjoy !...

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Message 12/24                 Date: 15-Mar-00  @  12:16 PM   -   RE: Basslines/drum grooves relationship

damballah

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Might I also toss in 'In Pursuit of Shashamane Land' and 'Songs of Praise' by Bonjo I A Binghi Noah's band, African Headcharge, for Nyabinghi drumming in a more electronic setting. If that stuff doesn't get you moving, you're f*ing dead! Disclaimer here though: I'm a sucker for anything that comes out of On-U Sound. Style Scott is the shit. Not to take anything from Sly & Robbie, but Style Scott and Flabba Holt (Roots Radics/Dub Syndicate) could lay it down. On-U's producer/mixer Adrian Sherwood (who aside from On-U projects, produced Ministry's 'Twitch' and Cabaret Voltaire's 'Code,' among others) had nothing to do with the latest African Headcharge CD that I picked up (title escapes me), and consists of Bonjo I doing a lot of singing. 'Drastic Season' is an earlier work that I have on vinyl and therefore doesn't get played a lot anymore.

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Message 13/24                 Date: 15-Mar-00  @  08:54 PM   -   RE: Basslines/drum grooves relationship

d-range

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i love you cats... =)

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Message 14/24                 Date: 16-Mar-00  @  12:17 AM   -   RE: Basslines/drum grooves relationship

k

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heh heh - i used to have a cat called Flabba - & he was actually named after John 'Flabba' Holt... the name was choosen cos the other cat was called 'Tadger' heh heh and it rhymed - anyways.. gotta tell you this story... we had this studio, and upstairs was living Mrs Bertha Marx.. 80 year old jewish widow... she was hilarious... we used to have dub jams on saturday nights people would drop in and out to sing/play, she used to come down and have a jam too!!!...actually i/we got her stoned loads of times, she'd always take the spliff (pon the lef hand side - heh heh)... she was such a character.. she wore these totally mashed, curled up at the toes shoes, and had loads of blue mascara & bright red lippy applied well off-center... anyways.. once, Bad manners aked her to appear in their video and come on ToTP too, cos she came down and was playing tambourine when they were rehearsing 'Taquila'.. but she refused to go on the TV...

anyways... Tadger (the cat) -... in england, 'Tadger', (or 'Todger'), is slang for dick... she used to go out on the street and call in the cat with a loud cat-calling voice:... 'Tadger!!!!'.. ha ha ha - we used to crack up... she would bawl out tadger all over the street... hah... funny woman i tell you... she was some character... always playing mother, vetting your women, sneaking into the flat while we were out and 'tidying' up after us despiteour protests... etc... man, i guess she's dead now... sad...

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Message 15/24                 Date: 16-Mar-00  @  11:53 AM   -   RE: Basslines/drum grooves relationship

damballah

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Oh, that's good.

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Message 16/24                 Date: 16-Mar-00  @  01:35 PM   -   RE: Basslines/drum grooves relationship

damballah

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I thought Flabba's real name was Errol.

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Message 17/24                 Date: 16-Mar-00  @  10:28 PM   -   RE: Basslines/drum grooves relationship

d-range

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*snif* now that was a beautiful story...*big sigh*
go on, give us another!

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Message 18/24                 Date: 17-Mar-00  @  01:40 AM   -   RE: Basslines/drum grooves relationship

k

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test

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Message 19/24                 Date: 28-Mar-00  @  10:36 AM   -   RE: Basslines/drum grooves relationship

nelsonre

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I've always felt the drums were there to accent the bassline and the rest of the music. Although, most of the music I write is hardcore, I even follow this idea in the techno pieces I write on my PC.
Most of all, I try and get an emotion from the relationship. I can't describe a sure cut way to compose something. But, you know when you've got it.
IMHO
-Pyscho_Clown

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Message 20/24                 Date: 28-Mar-00  @  12:34 PM   -   RE: Basslines/drum grooves relationship

damballah

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depends on what you wanna make your foundation.

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Message 21/24                 Date: 06-Apr-00  @  06:32 PM   -   RE: Basslines/drum grooves relationship

nullman

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I know this is kind of cheesy but some of my favorite house tunes just use a simple off beat bass note over and over to give it that bouncy feel. :-)

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Message 22/24                 Date: 07-Apr-00  @  05:26 AM   -   RE: Basslines/drum grooves relationship

daisuke

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yes, nullman, is cheesy, even awful65 use that, so u can understand how much cheesy actually it is ;) adding an interesting bassline to a straight 4/4 beat can be done, just check leftfield album "leftism", just to mention an obvious title. cheerz!

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Message 23/24                 Date: 07-Apr-00  @  08:33 AM   -   RE: Basslines/drum grooves relationship

Jasper

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chucking the bass through a compressor then messing with filter and high resonance can get more interesting results than just simply triggering a sample.

But if you try this without a compressor you might just blow the roof of your house off.

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Message 24/24                 Date: 07-Apr-00  @  05:30 PM   -   RE: Basslines/drum grooves relationship

unknown_talent

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yup. this one is cheesy, too but worth a try =) (use it on a 909)

160 bpm maybe

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