Original Message 1/16                 Date: 10-Nov-00  @  05:48 PM   -   commercial vs own style

unknown_talent

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hey!
it's been 2 year that I've been making music, I have a pretty unique style by now, but whenever I send my stuff to other musicians, they tell me: "cool, but you need to make it more commercial ... bla" well now I did and all of the sudden people started visiting my page ... strange huh ? what do you think about that?
www.mp3.com/unknown_talent

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Message 2/16                 Date: 11-Nov-00  @  03:19 PM   -   RE: commercial vs own style

0/d

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Rebirth and an electribe eh?Thats probably one of the best examples i've ever heard of someone pushing limited kit to its max.Something you said about making your music more commercial,you can make songs more commercial but the dangerous thing with commercialism is making it unorigional at the same time.With the limited kit you have your music sounds very good but there is nothing there that makes it stand out,commercial it is,but at the end of the day the fat cigar smoking a&r men are looking for origionality.Don't set out to make your music in a commercial style because you'll make a nasty habit of it,just let your music come out the way YOU feel it should come out and eventually you'll learn how to adapt a more commercial flavor to it.But then again why should you want to put a commercial edge on your music because at the end of the day all the best dance music is underground,where it belongs.

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Message 3/16                 Date: 11-Nov-00  @  03:28 PM   -   RE: commercial vs own style

pict

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Concentrate on your own thing even if you could judge accurately what some a&r man thinks is commercial enough to sign you up to some contract that doesn't guarantee financial success.You will be much happier making music that you think is good rather than making it to a record companies formula.

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Message 4/16                 Date: 11-Nov-00  @  04:12 PM   -   RE: commercial vs own style

unknown_talent

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yes you're both right!!! The thing is that, my one more commercial song "why space" is getting heard and the other stuff not ...
I thought about making music 2 ways now ... I make my kind of style stuff AND commercial stuff, I guess this might work ... this way i dont have to neglect my real stuff while getting kind of better known =)
some artists (cant think of a name but there are a lot) do commercial stuff and as soon as they are "famous" they start experimenting ...
hmm. sounds good, what do you think ?

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Message 5/16                 Date: 13-Nov-00  @  02:29 PM   -   RE: commercial vs own style

Pongoid

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I think you've been making music for only two years of your life, and wanting to do something commercial isn't something you should even consider thinking about right now. You should worry about learning how and why music work, before you even consider trying to do ANYTHING else. Commercial success is nothing more than a pipe-dream for you right now. Let it be that way. I'm going to bet that you are quite young, and that you still have plenty of time to learn things. Take a step back and look at what you are doing for a moment. You're pushing some dinky little computer program and some little plastic box to their limits to make stuff that sounds like somebody who listens to a very narrow band of music and likes it and hasn't explored mush beyond that. Dude, there's so much more out there. Fuck that Trance shit. It's gonna go the way of the dinosaur very soon. Create your own thing, something timeless, and you'll be way ahead of everyone else, when folks figure out that you have something cool going on. Get something cool and innovative happening. Learn the rules, then learn how to break them, or you will forever just sound like everyone else trying to be different, doing the same shit that someone else did 2 years, or 2000 years ago. The bottom line is this. You're trying to do ballet while you're still in diapers, musically speaking. Learn to walk first. I don't mean this disrespectfully. I mean this as advice coming from someone who's been making music probably since before you were born, and knows the score, and wishes nothing toward you but to see you improve and grow as a muscian.



Ape

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Message 6/16                 Date: 13-Nov-00  @  03:01 PM   -   RE: commercial vs own style

unknown_talent

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wow. i copied your post, so i can read it every now and then ... hehe, it's actually all true that you've written, this truth should brings me back to reality =)
i have another question, and it'd be cool if you could answer me once more, should i study other music, see how it's build up, etc, or should I start developing my own ideas, everything from scratch (if i can say so)
already ? do i need a proper musical education or is the feeling for music (i mean that you hear if notes are off tune, etc) enough ?
oh and I'm pushing the little stuff i have to the limits, because i cant afford anything else and i've never been trying to sound like someone else, with commercial i meant typical buildups, etc. ...
hehe trance is quite simple, that's a fact but it's good to start with. the musicstyle i love the most is reggae (hehe), breakbeat and dub, but it's way harder and i can't "start" making that kind of music i really like, just like that ...

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Message 7/16                 Date: 13-Nov-00  @  11:28 PM   -   RE: commercial vs own style

Pongoid

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Those other forms you mentioned are definately worthy of research. It is good to study any form of music youcan, and formal training will definately improve your own creations. Some of the best, but most unfun (if you will) excercises are scoring others stuff. For example, take any pop tune you hear on the radio, and write out the guitar part, note for note. If you don't read music, learn how. Again, it will only help. You can get pleny of programs that will teach you to read music quickly, and the idea is to listen to the piece, write the part out, then back into your sequencer to have it play the part on a different intrument, to see if what you wrote is correct. This will train you ears to recognize the relationships between notes, and by learning those relationships, you can learn what notes together, or in a series, and how they are arranged rythmically give you what type of feeling you are trying to convey with a particular piece. Try for simple stuff first, then move up to more complex pieces. Also, if you play an instrument, other than a computer, or electronic device, using a sequencer, you'll very quickly gain a lot more appreciation for the effort involved with writing and performing music, especially live stuff, maybe even integrating the mediums to really capture a natural feeling, using unnatural sounds and vice versa. The most important part, though is practice, practice, and more practice, especially to practice playing, not practice practicing. You'll see what I mean in time. Good luck.


Ape

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Message 8/16                 Date: 14-Nov-00  @  12:48 AM   -   RE: commercial vs own style

BJT

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Trance won't die overnight, most likely it will change,
currently we see UK Garage, progressive house,
progressive breakbeat...etc

A good example is progressive breakbeat,
which is nuskool breaks infused with trance,
(eg the Y3K compilations from Distinctive Breaks).

There are always things happenning an the 'underground'
scene, that will gain popularity and become
commercial, good example is UK Garage.

The thing is if you follow your own style, find
people who are similar to your own style, then
you may be involved in pioneering Trance in a new direction.

Alot of ppl bag Trance b/c they reckon its too simple,
I don't!!!

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Message 9/16                 Date: 14-Nov-00  @  08:19 PM   -   RE: commercial vs own style

Pongoid

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I know exactly what you mean, however you're still thinking with a closed mind. I'm not saying that all Trance is easy, because there is a pretty intense amount of work involved in the sound design and sound quality end of things, but do you have any idea how much further we could be pushing the sonic envelope? For the most part, Trance's rythmic dynamics and structures are BORING and TYPICAL, and extremely predictable. No innovation there in years. Most folks here are thinking and composing strictly in loops, and more loops, and pretty much just loops, with maybe one evolving tone in the whole track. When you have the knowledge and the facilities, you might try to create something that never repeats, or maybe only repeats once at the end, but suggests the feel throughout the whole piece, only giving you the full effect at the very end, then onto the next piece. I mean this rythmicly, timbrally, and melodically. it's not the easiest thing to do, in fact it's pretty hard, but when you do it, it's very fun, and you probably won't get nearly the same satisfaction out of loops afterwards. try it.


Ape

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Message 10/16                 Date: 15-Nov-00  @  07:15 AM   -   RE: commercial vs own style

unknown_talent

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hmm. I played classic guitar for 4 years but you'll laugh at me when I tell you I forgot everything about it, haven't been playing for 3 years ...
I'd love to be able to hear notes to write them down and i admire everyone who can, cause I saw someone just making a quick remix of one of jean michel jarre's tracks and the results were so cool. I think i'll need to train my ears some more, hehe. thanks for the advice man =) (eeww, it's gonna take me forever ...)

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Message 11/16                 Date: 15-Nov-00  @  02:18 PM   -   RE: commercial vs own style

pongoid

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Well, at least as long as you live.......

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Message 12/16                 Date: 15-Nov-00  @  02:46 PM   -   RE: commercial vs own style

unknown_talent

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hehe
thanks again, could I have your email adress ?

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Message 13/16                 Date: 21-Nov-00  @  01:49 AM   -   RE: commercial vs own style

Serfiss

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hmmmmm... I couldn't help but notice all this.
Pongoid, exactly what type of music is it exactly that you make that doesn't use loops or repeat.
I personally thought that all dance music used the loop. The premice being that kids on the dancefloor hear a phat groove and they dance to it, and it gets into their heads and they love it.
If it plays once and is then gone, well, I wouldn't dance.
What you're describing sounds like New Age- and I like new age, Steve Roche, Mike Oldfield, Tomita, but none of this is really danceable.
To get someone into your music you need some sort of hook. Not necesarrily a simple repeated few notes, but a melody, some sort of well defined theme.
That's my bit.
I love this website, I only recently discovered it.
Peace.

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Message 14/16                 Date: 22-Nov-00  @  12:49 AM   -   RE: commercial vs own style

k

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thanx for the props for the site... did you know there is this couple in Britain somewhere, and they have this studio in their place in the country and it's FULL of drums and other world instruments, and they chuck out ambient & new-age music and they sell SHITLOADS !!!!... direct they keep ALL the profits.. nice!.. i was round me mates the other day and she'd just got a that double 'Sounds of India' ambient cd double with the red-label... nice toons, i got some Phantasm stuff with tracks done using Amazonian Indians water-slapping rythms as the basis, that is a cool CD... (Phil from Novation mastered it on a Korg 'Soundlink' system and it is an awesome quality ambient CD - i would really recommend it: 'Surrender to the vibe' - Phantasm records. (PTM 132)

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Message 15/16                 Date: 27-Nov-00  @  04:36 PM   -   RE: commercial vs own style

Pongoid

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Try this trick. You use two hardware sequencers, and you set up one to do a loop in say...35 beats, or 65, or something, that gives one nice long odd timed loop, then you set another to do something like 24 beats. You can certainly get danceable grooves in that period of time, and the won't loop around on each other completely for whatever the product of both beat lengths is, and hopefully you're into different sounds in different arrangements by then. That should get you started. It doesn't have to sound new agey at all.
It can be as nasty as you wanna be.  

Ape

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Message 16/16                 Date: 28-Nov-00  @  01:03 PM   -   RE: commercial vs own style

BJT

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Nice Idea  

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