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Subject: creativity vs reality


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Original Message 1/10                 Date: 28-Jul-00  @  04:29 AM   -   creativity vs reality

casparproject

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There are those of us who find ourselves(naturally or otherwise) able to disconnect from formal ways of thinking in order to tap into our creativity.

Throughout history, you can clearly map out uses of such disconnectedness by the great creators of the past. Whether instilled by insanity, substance abuse, violence, disease etc. it's all really the same thing that gave these people their art. The subconscious mind.

What does this mean?
In order to be truly inspired people do we need to separate ourselves from the fabric of reality?

I personally find that writers block is most likely to come when I cut down on my drug usage. It's usually good for the business side of things mind you, but I'm not driven to compose the same way I am when I'm halfway out of my tree.

Do any of you find this to be true with yourselves?

If this is a universal truth then what does musical "talent" or "genius" mean?

It would seem to be that it would boil down to some sort of constant using something like musical training in relation to the degree of insanity/intoxication of the mind in question.

But then wouldn't that mean that true musical geniuses are just fucked up ppl who happened to be well trained to channel their subconscious into art through the destruction of conscious thought?
Doesn't that make a musical genius out to be basically a slave to their subconscious mind?
Do any of you feel like their music is more in control of them then they are in control of their music? The big question is, are we conditioned to be like this on purpose? If this makes any sense, then please let me know.

Peaceout,

Peter



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Message 2/10                 Date: 28-Jul-00  @  09:51 AM   -   RE: creativity vs reality

swanofnever

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hey, i know exactly what you're talking about... i think that to be really into music you HAVE to be controlled/whatever by your subconcious/whatever, cause that's the part music touches... i mean, how could music appeal to the logical, rational part of your brain? it's the most irrational, intuitive thing there is... but of course maybe other people operate in different ways... it's true though, for me anyway, i can never seem to write good lines sober... well, maybe that's not entirely true -- it all seems to make sense to me: if i've got a few parts, i can usually write decent stuff on top of that sober... i figure it's cause i'm operating within an established frame, which my logical brain can handle... but for coming up with the root of the song, like the first few ideas, i find that when i'm straight there's a much higher chance it'll really, really suck...(or course, when i'm stoned EVERYTHING sounds just a little bit better)

so i guess what i wanted to say is that there are certain areas where i think a rational concious process is a bit more helpful (i.e mixing, which i )_cannot_ do stoned), and of course for inspiration/channeling the secrets inside you...

and i don't know about you, but i personally have never doubted for a moment that i was in the complete control of music... fuck, beyond a case of extreme chronic gear-lust, it's stuff like having things going through my head continuously all day that's never let me doubt my (partial) insanity... and i guess _i_ think that's the key, cause you can be some wacko yoko-ono style, screaming in a bag-type, which is i suppose equally "detatched" from reality, but (for me) the thing that makes great music great is that it's not a pile of random crazyness, it's structure, organized crazyness... so if you're partially insane you're all set, cause you can come up with crazy shit, and then have the sense to figure out how it's all gonna come together... of course i'm sure a lot of people operate completely in one realm or the other...

anyway, i really have no clue at all what the force behind this is, but then again since my wonderful subconcious is in control, i don't have to care! i just let it take control, remembering to do stuff like eat and clothe myself periodically....

okay, final thought: i don't think it's really the "destruction of concious thought" so much as it's the bypassing of it... well, maybe destruction to me means something a bit more permanent, but i htink it's more of a transcending thing... going above and beyond, collecting cool shit, then thinking about it, seeing how it works, and learning from all that...

right, the last thought for sure this time: isn't that what any art's about? granted, i guess dance music's a bit more abstract than, say, poetry (well, most poetry anyway), but... okay, i'm getting sidetracked, what i mean is (RRGHHH sorry for the absent scatter-braindeness... maybe a bit too much inspiration over the past few days..) we're ALL conditioned to a greater or lesser extent to "channel" or whatever, get in touch with, the subconcious (incidentally, i never took psych101, i'm just assuming by subconcious you mean the irrational, secret sort of mysterious part... you know, the one with the big-ass oedipal(?) complex...), that's all music _is_, or most of it anyway, i think... it just seems that some of us are more in touch with that part than others (fucking people that listen to crap radio ALL FUCKING DAY, but they're not even listening, they just like background noise! AAARRRGGH@!@!!!!!!!!!) sorry, i really think my subconcious is sort of overzealous...

tangent: in many other threads, this whole moneyvs."keepin it real"/etc. thing keeps cropping up, where a few people will cry out against rote music-making, saying it's a desecration....maybe it's all just a difference of brain-processes... i.e some of us approach music on a toally rational level, and some of us don't... and our brains don't like to feel desecrated.



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Message 3/10                 Date: 28-Jul-00  @  01:22 PM   -   RE: creativity vs reality

casparproject

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Yeah. That's perfect. One problem with the current trends in the music industry could then be seen as the age group they aim at. I don't know about you but when I was 9 I didn't have much of an interest in the subconscious. Therefore, in order to make the big money you need to write straightforward, almost disgustingly materialistic crap, and have a group of boys sing it. Those of us who can't/won't do that, luckily have a few small markets we can play to like the goth scene, or the party scene, where people aren't interested in hearing cheeze. I dunno, some of the most talented artists left reality behind a long time ago, and if it weren't for my family and my gf I'd prolly get a ticket to limbo myself.

Peaceout,

Peter



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Message 4/10                 Date: 28-Jul-00  @  05:21 PM   -   RE: creativity vs reality

nobody

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radio bad bad bad bad bad bad bad mmm... ok lemme try to speak like a person for a moment. ok well failing that i'd like to not simply flail aimlessly like always.. at least.... ah fuck it. if i try to make sense nothing right comes out even half right so rather than that reckon not such ways. yeah fucking radio.. i'm with you on that. incidentally i am thinking of moving to canada. vancouver actually.. but not quite yet. being unqualified for much but landscaping, painting & building things who needs me there   actually first ah'm thinking of getting emplyment at mackie or some such company that i can make products that i know are good at least... rather just make MOTM modules 7 hours a day or something but that won't yield much but a big modular and empty pockets. yes i can solder like a fuckin pro, and probably better, since i care a TON, because it's all mine.... well ok. the mind is your enemy & your friend. sometimes the machines are just too much, sometimes i think i need to stop smoking lovelys for 6 months (which might even be possible) and just go retreat to a mountain with 4 or 5 drums or something.. i need drums.. well that's beside the point (hand drums) and i'm getting them one at a time so :P jakovs! seriously just going to look like taking up extra space (k doesn't mind) and what do i care? damn these solder fume/smoke/coffee reactions. more XLR cables i say!! maybe a cable company? naaah.. i'd have to charge too much, i'm not assembly line fast or that efficient..mmm.... i love soldering. this must look really weird to people who don't read here much. fuck 'em. yeah you heard me fuckfuck. jesus. i wonder sometimes.



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Message 5/10                 Date: 28-Jul-00  @  07:58 PM   -   RE: creativity vs reality

jj

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Lets just switch the sub to the super, cause thats how I'm lookin at it. When I REALLY tap into madness, I have to tell you, it above normal consciousness, not below.

Some things in studio just go more smoothly straight, some better otherwise. Tuff to do the non fun stuff, when you've got all the fun stuff lying around, saying "twiddle me honey!"

In all the artistic things I do (painting, drawing, music/sound, used to write-no longer have the capacity, sculpting, and on into the more conceptually abstract...) I've found that I have to find a way to enjoy the process 100%. The entire process. And if thats not happening, then the arts not Really happening, on the level it needs to be. Don't think that I've ever really achieved this 100% ratio, nope, but when I've gotten really close- ie painting structure built perfectly, surface prepared just right for subject matter, great paint used, mixed well, proper pigment over/saturation, properly mixed medium, paint layered well, excelent bushwork, effective composition ect (if you paint you know this list could go on to the extent of dt's servers but) when I can really get in on all of those levels, and pour joy into them, then the work just flies, flies I tell you, out of normal levels of objecthood into some kinda magic saturn space. Well anyway, another example is programing sounds on my fs1r. Love the sounds, but the programming sucks toads, so you won't hear a lot of Really unique sounds coming out of my fs1r, cause I just can't put that much energy there, cause this beastie will just suck it outta me. I could sit for days programming and get nowhere (sometimes), so you won't find me doing it much. (I'm doing it right now though, thats why I'm at dt!)

Anyway, though caspar, friends and family can really be a big hole in your magical space where you can let the madness happen. Those people will usually want access to your mental space, though they will not be willing to deal with what they find there. This is poision. I really feel for viz art, a studio is a must, and prefferable totally yours, or shared with deeply empithetic people, while still having private space. Cause you need a fortress, one in which your totally secure, so you can let ALL your gaurds down, so you can be pathetically weak, naked, exposed, failing, you gotta be able to do these things to make progress. And fer myself, I can't do this in the public eye, or even around close friends.

Well, thats enough out of me.



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Message 6/10                 Date: 06-Aug-00  @  02:01 PM   -   RE: creativity vs reality

¿

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does anyone else do this without intoxication.. am i alon in little bouts of times where i am totally out of my fucking mind (havent done any drugs in LONG time, even then, not that much)



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Message 7/10                 Date: 06-Aug-00  @  02:40 PM   -   RE: creativity vs reality

damballah

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I did 'em a lot, once upon a time. Long time ago though. People tell me I'm weird enough without 'em. Once you know a mind state enough, you can kinda go there without chemical prodding. Now my only vice is strong coffee.



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Message 8/10                 Date: 07-Aug-00  @  03:14 AM   -   RE: creativity vs reality

jj

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Wish I could drink coffee. Really wish it. Thats a good drug, but damn, so acidic.



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Message 9/10                 Date: 09-Aug-00  @  02:35 PM   -   RE: creativity vs reality

99devils

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Valid points, guys... Good stuff. Personally I find that the spontaneous, creative, come-up-with a cool bassline type stuff goes easier with chemical assistance, and then I tend to piece it together whilst straight.

And I fully fully fully agree with whoever said that really you have to have everything set up 100% so that it's enjoyable to work. Otherwise, you won't use things to their fullest potential because experimenting becomes way too difficult. I'm in the middle of setting up my studio at my new place and I'm doing it right this time (it's finally got it's own room without dampness, darkness, critters, bong-parties, etc...)

-Craig



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Message 10/10                 Date: 09-Aug-00  @  04:19 PM   -   RE: creativity vs reality

jj

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Oh, I still have the bong parties, and critters (of the insect nature), but not a drop of moisture!



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