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Subject: Why do people DJ live?


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Original Message 1/51                 Date: 31-Mar-00  @  04:38 AM   -   Why do people DJ live?

nickdej

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Why is it that when electronic music is played live that people use records? Wouldnt it make more sense to use a keyboard? Could somebody please explain this to me

Thanks



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Message 2/51                 Date: 31-Mar-00  @  12:27 PM   -   RE: Why do people DJ live?

damballah

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The DJ is the STAR, and doncha fergit it. That's because the TURNTABLE is a MUSICAL INSTRUMENT that takes years of DEDICATION and STUDY to MASTER. That is unless you're LUCKY enough to be born a JAPANESE GIRL. Then your PARENTS can enroll you in the SUZUKI METHOD and you could be a 5-year-old VIRTUOSO TURNTABLIST.



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Message 3/51                 Date: 01-Apr-00  @  02:21 AM   -   RE: Why do people DJ live?

nobody

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Roc Raida, Kid Capri, these guys rock fuck, damn. jeez-o-man.

them's using them as musical instruments, & i tend to think they play live to get their rorks arfin' and to have fun, which might be what john always thinks. or whatever..

some dj's play live to get money, or free drugs, or girls, or guys, or more drugs, or because they can't stand NOT being the center of attention, and because THEIR music IS THE SHIT so don't deny the skills of EVERY FUCK DJ out there.. haha..

but kid capri rocks. and there's of course a ton more that aren't near favorite or something fishy like tuna fish.. or sushi, that's fishy. unless it has egg instead of fish. that's farked in it's bononoclopa>>> wee all knew, little little people, laughing about us day & night. we could always fark them the foke up with just a little static shock; were they such sensitive electronic devices? i thought they was lil' people, like them.. borrowers or littles or supimim supplement.. borrowers piss me off. john goodman to save the day; social lubricant. fark bono; the edge.. U2 tyke klyne UBERZEGUNSKRAFT



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Message 4/51                 Date: 01-Apr-00  @  04:43 PM   -   RE: Why do people DJ live?

SB

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"Why do they use records instead of keyboards?"

Think about it...have you ever tried to spin a keyboard on a set of 1200s?



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Message 5/51                 Date: 01-Apr-00  @  06:01 PM   -   Koala permit acquisition in the US

nobody

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needle just skips all over the place. it sucks.. ruins your stylus.

same thing happens (somewhat) when elvenkynde forgets the record & cues up a slipmat.. mm.. fuzzy & harshh, hurts ears.



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Message 6/51                 Date: 02-Apr-00  @  12:46 AM   -   RE: Why do people DJ live?

nickdej

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Still dont answer my question, I aint dissing djing.
Just want to learn more about it. It just seems weird to spin a record, when you could be sequencing it LIVE on your keyboard. Could somebody fill me in on why this is and possible sites that explain Djing.

Thanks



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Message 7/51                 Date: 02-Apr-00  @  03:42 AM   -   RE: Why do people DJ live?

ellipsis

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www.turntablism.com

they o it because it allows them to manipulate the music even further....instead of using keyboards to play notes, they use songs that have already been made and realeased, and reagrrange, edit, and scratch those songs into, hopoefully, something greater than the origional song...the dj 's goal (at most) is to provide the listener a greater experience than the source songs, keep the dancefloor happinen, keep the energy up, make people enjoy themselves, make the songs flow into one another, and provide goos sonic enjoyment...the music-producer's goal is to express themselves.

this is jsut the way i see things
,p>
ellipsis



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Message 8/51                 Date: 02-Apr-00  @  04:56 PM   -   RE: Why do people DJ live?

k

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hmm.. well take our keyboard/s and try to make it/them play two different tracks with different sounds and different production & different mixes seamlessly merged into each other.. now repeat that times 40.. sure... people, individual artists, play live sets of their own material, but generally Dj's play material by all different artists



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Message 9/51                 Date: 05-Apr-00  @  10:59 PM   -   RE: Why do people DJ live?

jj

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I knew a legend turntabalist, with a collection that gets written about, everywhere this guyed go, you hear squeak squeak squeak. One dAy i Can take it no more, I'm like wtf is that sound, he pulls his hand out of his pocket and es gota little squeazy thing from the 70's that you use to build up yer 4arms. Guys not muscle dude at all (small an wimpy(looking) kinda). he just worked nearly every minute of day to stay on top. This is just a phys aspect. dude's listened to more music than i'll ever, with a deeeeeeeep understanding of what makes music work. On top of this, a master showman that kan sculpt a crowds mental state like oldmasters used oil or marble. Props to this guy too cause his head was well within acceptible bounds. Thats where most dj's loose it, in the head. But wouldn't you too if you were getting your dick sucked 24/7?



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Message 10/51                 Date: 11-Apr-00  @  08:04 AM   -   RE: Why do people DJ live?

Pongoid

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Q: Why is it that when electronic music is played live that people use records?"

A: It's not. It's simply manipulated recordings of other people's stuff.

I can't remember which thread it was, but I kind laid out my point of view on the DJ/strap-on concept, and it still seems to hold. Anybody else remember which thread that was? I enjoy DJ's showcasing good music, especially some of the archivist/manipulators that I know, but it ain't the same as somebody doin it for real, representin their own sounds and arrangements.

Ape



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Message 11/51                 Date: 11-Apr-00  @  10:23 AM   -   RE: Why do people DJ live?

ianrhodes

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exactly, they're not creators, and some don't even understand how all that music is created, they're DJ's
"disc jockeys" they play music, no offense, but it's not that great



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Message 12/51                 Date: 11-Apr-00  @  03:13 PM   -   RE: Why do people DJ live?

mystikal7

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Ok, I have been looking at this thread for a while. Hopeing someone was going to post something good. I see dj's spin all the time, it is the best showcase for electronic music. There are a lot of dj's out that there know what they are doing, and know how to creat music. I know of one dj that uses 2 tb-303's and is going to start using a 505 in his shows. Saying that they just play music is a statement obviously coming from someone that knwos nothing about dj'ing. It isn't a fact of just playing one record and then right before it ends throwing down another one. You take a record you like and if you feel it needs something, like maybe a snare roll at one point you add it off another record. A lot of dj's also produce music. Bad boy bill, dj dan, dj irene, armand van helden, crystal method. And yes tCM are dj's. I could list tons of dj's that produce and remix. When you mix you don't just beatmatch, you have to think of the key the record is in so if ya lay down another record with it, it won't sound all wack. Dj's also have to know what the crowd wants, and how to get the floor dancing. It isn't just a matter of playing records, they create a mood with the music. I think that the people that have posted on this thread are very uninformed about dj'ing. And dj's are something great, just because they use different tools to creat their music does not make them any less of musicians than yourself.



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Message 13/51                 Date: 13-Apr-00  @  12:28 AM   -   RE: Why do people DJ live?

ModAsBlue

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Ok, Kid...

Well, you have to understand the power of a turntable and a fat ass beat...just think about this little disc that spins and physically transfers little notches into beats...stuttering away from the needle to the speakers.

More concretely, you just need to understand DJ culture. Electronic Dance Music is just that...DANCE music, and when people go out to a club or a party or a rave or whatever, there are some people who are there to dance they're ass off, some for drugs and some for the music and some to get laid... (we all have our own priorities).. A DJ makes many songs into a set...a set as a cohesive whole...he manipulates the records, the pulse, to his liking. A DJ with a name will be the center of many people's attention (will have more trainspotters) while an unknown is the source of the party.

Other reasons, umm... one could say that as a DJ you pick what you feel the BEST (to your taste or within a certain cohesion) are and come on, no DJ/producer is going to say "my records are just the bomb ass shit, I will spin only my shit" and anyway then you'd have a boring set...producers tend to have styles and you'd here only one.

More reasons - a lot of producers just don't go live...they just sit in the studio and crank out vinyl for the DJs...that's just what they're after.

Again, remember that DJS are musicians...if they weren't, one couldn't have preferences for one DJ over another. There are so many reasons ahhhhh! You just need to get out to a party...

Clubs/Parties/Raves are concerts and "regular parties" in one... that fusion makes the DJ necessary.

Come on guys, help me out!



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Message 14/51                 Date: 13-Apr-00  @  02:23 AM   -   RE: Why do people DJ live?

jj

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Pongoid,

I don't know why you've chosen to take such a myopic look at this issue. You yourself claim to be a proponent of open mindedness, and are the first to criti-size those who approach new concepts with closed minds. So what the fuck man?

Do you believe that you created the tone of say A#? Did that tone not exist before your moms squeezed your little sticky ass out? "Ah," we said, "now we can use A#". Naw, this ain't the case. A#'s been around. But nonetheless you will take this tone and use it, add a tone before, a tone after. Are YOU a thief for simply playing a tone, thats been around as long as air? Or are you an Author for arranging the tone into sequences? Why is it that you can sequence tones, and be the Author, while others sequence sonic experiences far more compl.exe and difficult to manipulate than simple tones, and are called "archivers"? I'de expect this level of thinking from a fool, but surely not from someone with such a deep and open mind as you, pongoid.



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Message 15/51                 Date: 13-Apr-00  @  05:20 AM   -   Why don't DJ's dance live?

Jasper

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A lot of producers don't actually want the fame and limelight that dj's do though.. So they both benefit each other.. The producers that DO want fame and limelight go out and play live..

Which brings me to the point that the reason DJ's and the producers that want FAME do it is because they look like a constipated octopus on the dancefloor.

Really, some of them should be told that they arent doing themselves any favours.

If you are a dJ and you can dance then you should copyrite it or something ;)



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Message 16/51                 Date: 14-Apr-00  @  02:50 AM   -   RE: Why do people DJ live?

jj

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The dj I was refering to way up there is a very white dude, and is prob one of the best breakers around. Can you guess who he is now?



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Message 17/51                 Date: 14-Apr-00  @  10:35 AM   -   RE: Why do people DJ live?

Rockstar

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Hate to say it out loud but I agree with pongiod...bear in mind I was a working DJ for 10 years, but simply put a DJ simply plays records. Thats it. There are those turntablist dudes who rip shit like instruments, but I find watching them is kinda like watching somebody jerk-off, its all pyrotechnics and theatrics, not very interesting from a musical view point. (I've seen roc-raida, x-men; DJ Johnny Juice, one of the ORIGINAL underground turntablists is an old friend of mind - not to name drop, but I don't wanna hear that I don't understand the concept or some shit)....very boring.

In fact I can't really understand the whole DJ as.....rockstar... thing at all...

I write beats, and I've dj'd and there is absolutely no comparison. DJ'ing requires: very good taste, a sense of crowd psychology, and minimal rhythm. Hate to bust the bubble, but I've controlled and sculpted crowds like an artist, and I did it half drunk...



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Message 18/51                 Date: 15-Apr-00  @  09:07 PM   -   RE: Why do people DJ live?

jj

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half drunk, prob had to be, to access your brain's higher/lower functions.

Okay, rockstar you know DJ KO?

Dude absolutely blew my mind. I've NEVER had that amount of quality sonic information coming at me.(especially live) I couldn't process nearly a quarter of it. Dude was tight, you know him?



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Message 19/51                 Date: 17-Apr-00  @  01:23 PM   -   RE: Why do people DJ live?

Rockstar

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KO? nah, is he one of those bay area cats? dudes down there are ridiculous... honestly not part of that whole scene 'cept through my man...peeped a scratch piklz tape where this kid did a routine with the power off on the tables though! Also caught some crazy routines at this contest that vibe sponsored here in NY a few months back .they are impressive, but shit like that makes me ask why? if you're going to break down records to individual tones, than write a song! for real, I understand the whole thing of dj in hip-hop, but I came into dj'ing understanding it as a service to the crowd, the impressive hip-hop dj'ing bores the shit out of a crowd and can kill a party quickly (I've seen it happen)...



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Message 20/51                 Date: 17-Apr-00  @  08:20 PM   -   RE: Why do people DJ live?

jj

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well the moral of the story is that the turntable is a new instrament, not unlike the sequencer being a new instrament. Originally turntables were playback devices, just as sequencers were, right? But then people started "playing" the playback device. Now no offense, but I think its not to smart to think of certain instraments being capable of only certain tasks, like I can only make people dance with a turntable, or I can only make people rock with a guitar. I'd hate to put a limit on an instrament, or a musician like that.



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Message 21/51                 Date: 19-Apr-00  @  02:00 PM   -   RE: Why do people DJ live?

Pongoid

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obviously you didn't read the strap-on related post, did you? I didn't think so, cuz if you did, you wouldn't go assuming that what I was saying equated to "DJ's don't create." Sure they do, but what they create is a mood. Very few DJ's are being very creative these days. Don't hand me this "you don't understand DJ culture bullshit", kid. You don't know how well I understand it. I live it every day. Most DJ's with half a brain give me respect on first meeting me, because they know that at the end of the day, without us (the musicians [notice I did not say producers or engineers]) there is NO music. Period. My mind is plenty open to callin Beat Jugglers like Roc Raida and q-bert, who use the turntable like a very manual sampler, and that's cool, but they are very much the exception rather than the rule. Sasha, or Carl, they are just music presenters and showcasers, putting forward what their ego's consider to be the 'dope shit' as it were. Sorry, dude. That shit doesn't impres me. I can match a beat and rock a crowd with records too, but I'm not playing the latest release by the next big thing because I'm more into pushing the creative envelope and supporting others that are rather than just feeding people what they've been programmed to accept as cool, so I don't get booked to play the big, glitzy glamorous gigs. Let's not get into new instruments, cuz until you've seen STOMP live, you really can't grasp that concept. If you have, then you might sing a different tune. Please don't think I'm considerring you totally ignorant, but before you go assuming things by my comments, read the other posts I've done regarding this topic. In the meantime, even Roc Raida and Kid Capri gotta snatch their beats from somewhere. Neither of them play drums to my knowledge. If I'm mistaken about that drum thing, I'll eat my words, but as for the DJ as musician thing? Pfffft, yeah right dude. Let's just think about that one again.

Ape



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Message 22/51                 Date: 19-Apr-00  @  02:01 PM   -   RE: Why do people DJ live?

Pongoid

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obviously you didn't read the strap-on related post, did you? I didn't think so, cuz if you did, you wouldn't go assuming that what I was saying equated to "DJ's don't create." Sure they do, but what they create is a mood. Very few DJ's are being very creative these days. Don't hand me this "you don't understand DJ culture bullshit", kid. You don't know how well I understand it. I live it every day. Most DJ's with half a brain give me respect on first meeting me, because they know that at the end of the day, without us (the musicians [notice I did not say producers or engineers]) there is NO music. Period. My mind is plenty open to callin Beat Jugglers like Roc Raida and q-bert, who use the turntable like a very manual sampler, and that's cool, but they are very much the exception rather than the rule. Sasha, or Carl, they are just music presenters and showcasers, putting forward what their ego's consider to be the 'dope shit' as it were. Sorry, dude. That shit doesn't impres me. I can match a beat and rock a crowd with records too, but I'm not playing the latest release by the next big thing because I'm more into pushing the creative envelope and supporting others that are rather than just feeding people what they've been programmed to accept as cool, so I don't get booked to play the big, glitzy glamorous gigs. Let's not get into new instruments, cuz until you've seen STOMP live, you really can't grasp that concept. If you have, then you might sing a different tune. Please don't think I'm considerring you totally ignorant, but before you go assuming things by my comments, read the other posts I've done regarding this topic. In the meantime, even Roc Raida and Kid Capri gotta snatch their beats from somewhere. Neither of them play drums to my knowledge. If I'm mistaken about that drum thing, I'll eat my words, but as for the DJ as musician thing? Pfffft, yeah right dude. Let's just think about that one again.

Ape



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Message 23/51                 Date: 19-Apr-00  @  04:02 PM   -   RE: Why do people DJ live?

influx

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manipulator. thats what a DJ is. manipulator of
pre-recorded sounds. some write their own shit, but very
few.

manipulator of energy, too, but using other peoples stuff
to do it.

Pongoid said something about the DJs who jump on the
newest hottest shit to come out in their genre. Ive often
wondered about this when i go out to see a name I know
(and have liked in the past based on track selection and
style) and I end up being blasted with a constant barrage
of same-sounding big farting basslines and the stock
beats. I cant BELIEVE how far the Amen break has gone...

but anyway..again, I saw Dara last night, who I have kept
up with over the years, since the "renegade continuum"
mix came out, which I am still totally in love with. THAT
stuff..the Future Forces shit, etc, took a LOT of thought, as
does all GOOD jungle. the shit on those mixes is equally
at home at a party or rockin in the car on a trip to the
mountains..and Daras mix skills are impressive, too.
Since then, he has steadily embraced the "NOW" sound of
DnB which is sounding more and more like Slayer every
time I hear it.

Do I question him for the change? I dont know..cuz in a
way, he is nothing but a mirror, and has no choice to play
whats "The Shit" if he wants to keep his name around,
but then again..the stuff from the past...is it all crap now?
Is only the NEW groundbreaking shit any good? I say NO,
and Im disappointed in the DJs who think differently.

anyway..sorry for the rant..as an answer to the original
post...

why dont people just bring a keyboard? 

well..you clearly havent done much production yet. A lot
of the stuff you hear, well..one man just couldnt do it.
pongoids gonna shit but its true. The majority of the
tracks are written in the studio and processed all to hell,
and to try to get them out live would be quite difficult, a
task that most producers wont tackle.

more often than not, it is simply not ONE keyboard doing
the whole thing, but a whole slew of synths, samplers, FX,
processors, etc, and would take way more than one
person to get it all together.

does that answer your ?

as for the Producer vs engineer vs musician thing? Im not
even gonna touch that cuz unless you can manipulate a
musical instrument in a controlled fashion, you are not a
musician in my eyes. this, sadly, excludes me..I consider
myself more of a "manipulator" than anything and im
ashamed of it at present, but working on changin this
aspect.

someone once said that if you dont really know music,
but are writing it, then youre "fakin the funk"...and for
some reason it struck a nerve, and seemed directed at
me...

maybe some DJs should take a look at this too



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Message 24/51                 Date: 19-Apr-00  @  05:03 PM   -   RE: Why do people DJ live?

casparproject

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DJ'ing=Skill/Coordination
Producing=Talent/Musicality



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Message 25/51                 Date: 21-Apr-00  @  04:07 AM   -   RE: Why do people DJ live?

DR

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man all this stuff sucks...
Dj's there Dj's there.. I think we have to seperate the Dj's. If you take the normal little club dj well, he'z not much off an artist now is he?. Take q-bert or thosse guys then it's another point. They'r people that have expanded the use off Turntables and are very creattive and have a musical mind sort off.
In my eyes they are true artists perhaps not muscians but artists... mann dj-s suck... They all do it for the money or the puzzy,, damn idits.



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Message 26/51                 Date: 21-Apr-00  @  07:05 PM   -   RE: Why do people DJ live?

djkandy

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Pongoid must not have really listened to Sasha for him to say that he is not a talented musician. Sasha & Digweed are like opposite personalities: Sasha wants to be the center of attention & Digweed takes on a more subtle, low-key approach to playing/producing music. I think you should listen to Sasha: Ibiza and Digweed: Hong Kong before you go and make any more comments about certain dj's, it's a sensitive subject when you get into philosophical art of progressive trance, and the necessity to plan and program each set in a key-matched fashion, before ever hitting the decks live. It takes coolness, coordination, calmness, all the c-words sometimes, but it's still an art and a music-form.



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Message 27/51                 Date: 21-Apr-00  @  09:09 PM   -   RE: Why do people DJ live?

nobody

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the same points KEEP popping up again & again.

everyone said their own version now??

if i had the chance i'd pound sasha's little head into quivering jellylike.

and don't tell me to shut up. i haven't offended you. if i had offended you i'd know it & i wouldn't have done so without good reason. kicking the crap out of sasha has been this concept i've been toying with for.. ages, apparently. of course it'll never happen, i'll never go anywhere within miles of any of his garbage crap music... hehe.. yes that's what i said.

love ya  



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Message 28/51                 Date: 22-Apr-00  @  02:34 AM   -   RE: Why do people DJ live?

jj

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well kid (thats you pongoid), I don't even CONSIDER hipster club dj's or their ilk. I also don't consider many of the people that I know who can rip on an instrament to really be musicians. Those dudes are dead in the water.

From what I hear you shouting, it sounds more like you object to the form of djing. Which is understandable. It is very objectionable. Bye bye.



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Message 29/51                 Date: 24-Apr-00  @  06:39 PM   -   DEEEJJAYSSSS

tom

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Dj's are good, but they will never know what a C#sus9 or a Bbaug9 is. Now would they really know how to tell the difference between a rhodes piano and a guitar.



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Message 30/51                 Date: 24-Apr-00  @  06:39 PM   -   DEEEJJAYSSSS

tom

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Dj's are good, but they will never know what a C#sus9 or a Bbaug9 is. Now would they really know how to tell the difference between a rhodes piano and a guitar.



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Message 31/51                 Date: 24-Apr-00  @  10:37 PM   -   RE: Why do people DJ live?

ModAsBlue

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Heh...

"FAKIN THE FUNK"

I like that...

I'm a really CRAPPY bass player. Like, I could play well enough to be in some shite ass hardcore or punk band but nothing else. No funk, jazz, jam rock...nothing that actually takes

FUNK (in the more abstract meaning...as in "fakin the funk")

anyway

on the SASHA tip...well, he put out a CD recently (OF HIS OWN STUFF) and I've HEARD it's not bad but I haven't actually HEARD IT...so....

But I do like the differentiation between PRODUCER and MUSICIAN...

I'm definitely a PRODUCER... I MAKE/PRODUCE MUSIC but I would only loosely call myself a musician. As much as I think shit like STOMP is obnoxious as fuck and boring and mainstream...they can drum the fuck out of me, so they're one up on me...

Give them an MPC and they would still probably rip me to shreads...I just have to hope that my own sense of COOL is better. I make no pretentions about attempting crazy-phat Aphex Twin style innovation...I am after the groove only. I seek only to make bad-ass dance tracks. Hopefully I'm advancing quick enough to get some records out before

THIS VERSION OF DISCO

dies out...but as it's lasted over 10 years, maybe it won't die out... I'm not after fame or fortune...I'd just like to make a living at doing what I love (PRODUCING) music and hopefully someone will connect with a track that I make...although I don't aim for crazy fat innovation, I DO aim for INTELLIGENT dance music that somehow express some abstract emotion...maybe someone out there will get it the same way that I do...but I'll never know...



(POINT OF TANGENT: a defense of PRODUCERS who are not bad-ass musicians. Maybe you can play Nocturnes...I can't. But with the help of technology, I can transcend my slow hands...isn't music all in the HEAD, anyway?)


SINCERELY!

ModAsBlue



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Message 32/51                 Date: 26-Apr-00  @  03:51 PM   -   RE: Why do people DJ live?

MuhA

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Heh...
Well, I don't claim to be a musician... I can play a few jazzy tunes on the piano, I have my small home studio, I have a bunch of DJ friends who keep asking me when I'm either going to play live, or press a record for them to play... I'm also part of a production company, that throws parties in order to provide a place to have fun for us and as many other open minded kids that we can get our hands on... any of the money we make is simply given away, or reinvested in bigger and better parties. Basically, I started raving, I saw the "scene"... this attention based hedonistic cult which (at least where I am) seemed a bit like high school...
I had been listening to electronic music, in one form or another for a few years by the time I started "raving", and after getting sucked in at first, I took a step back, and said...
WAIT A MINUTE!!! WHATS IT ALL ABOUT??? WHY AM I DOING THIS???
to which (after much contemplation) the only answer I could come up with was, and still is:
--==FUN==--

Now, I've blown a couple grand on music equipment, I kinda skipped the whole DJ'ing bit (figgured I'd pick it up along the way, if I wanted to) and now I spend all my free time at home in the studio messing around..
and ya know what... I couldn't care less if I actually do get published, or get hired to do a live act
because.... I've decided, I'm in it for FUN, screw labels (DJ thisn'that), I don't even have a name for myself, so I just told them to put a question mark on the flyer.
No matter what you do (DJ/Produce/Masturbate)... just know why you are doing it... if you are doing it solely for fame, or fortune, well I hope you do well, if you are doing it in order to get girls, well I hope you get em', but remember.. don't loose site of your goals...
It doesn't matter what you do, just do it to the best of your ability, and try to have FUN doing it, as a life without FUN, is (in my opinion) no life at all.

Sorry about the rant, but for some reason I enjoy (FUN) sharing my opinion on this sort of thing.

Best wishes,
MuhA

By the way... note to DJ's, etc... One of the coolest guys I've met has been DJ Brian (High Desert Trance) who I chatted with for quite a while... a candyraver that I knew came up to us while we were chatting, and goes:
"Oh HI!!! You must be DJ Brian!!"
He looked at her, and said
"Uhh, yeah, whats your name?"
she said: "Tracy!"
He said "Well, uhh, nice to meet you DJ Tracy"



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Message 33/51                 Date: 16-May-00  @  09:11 PM   -   RE: Why do people DJ live?

Breakerbox

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The whole music scene wont roll without the dj's...
But they cant do with the musicians, so they depend on us. It s like cars, if there was no oil the cars wouldnt roll... Dj's are nothing without records to spin, musicians sre the source... Dj's are not musicians...
they are simply overrated, I met couple of them in Seattle and IMHO they are self-centered- ego-tastical dicks ( at least the ones i met). I cant understand how playing prerecorded stuff makes you so cooler then producing music (that happened to me couple of time, people ask me if i dj, i say no, i make music, and they are like ok, c ya later...).
People over here think it is the dj who plays the music...
I understand u nedd skills to spin but i see people spinning in a club 6 months after they started djing... it took me a year to figure out analogue sythesis i am still learning...
I am not talking about turntablists like Picklz or x-men it takes skillz to do that stuff.
Hope i explained myself....



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Message 34/51                 Date: 19-May-00  @  06:33 PM   -   RE: Why do people DJ live?

Pongoid

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JJ, son you need to do your homework. The victrola has been around for a lot longer than the electric bass guitar, so the newness of the device is not a factor. The turntable, and the synthesizer fulfill diffrerent functions as does the sampler. The turntable is only as much of an instrument as a pot or pan, when you're using it in an extremely creative fashion, and simply matching a beat and turning up the volume is just like changing the volumes on two steeos side by side. I'm not impressed and I refuse to give it the extreme validity and worship that feel is so fitting. Don't get me wrong. I love playing records, listening to other peopls' stuf, combining bit's and pieces to create different timbral and percussive textures. It's fun, but don't blow it out of proportion. It's still someone else's records. DUHHH!!!

Ape



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Message 35/51                 Date: 30-May-00  @  02:59 PM   -   RE: Why do people DJ live?

japanimation

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Ok people, this is actually a very simple debate, however your misconceptions seem to be that one style (i.e. DJ'ing, Composing) is better than the other. Now I know that this message won't stop the debate that is still likely to ensue in this forum but check this out. We're going to compare this to a completely different style of music so as not to set off any more debates that are off the topic. Take classical music. In classical music you have composers, and you have directors. There have been both famous directors and composers throughout the ages. Does one better than the other? No. The DJ is a director. He takes the music that has already been composed and molds it into his own form. If he wants to drop a part or add something new, that's his perogative. People go to watch these directors to see what they will do with the pieces. The composer is responsible for coming up with the music in the first place. He molds his ideas from nothingness into music. True, without the composer, there would be no music, but without the director, who would listen to it?



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Message 36/51                 Date: 30-May-00  @  05:47 PM   -   RE: Why do people DJ live?

damballah

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(actually it's conductor). so conductors are the lame ass superstars of the classical music world who get all the credit but are really just punk ass bitches. yes that clears it up for me really good now and all thank you very very much. i will be yelling "maestro" no more ever again. fuckin baton wavers.



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Message 37/51                 Date: 02-Jun-00  @  12:28 AM   -   RE: Why do people DJ live?

Grurly

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Dude you can do both I know of people who skratch there own shit Aphex and Mu-ziq do it. I believe in that capacity it can add to your muzic. Pretty fat too...



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Message 38/51                 Date: 02-Jun-00  @  07:39 AM   -   RE: Why do people DJ live?

Pongoid

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Yeah, sure, scratchin is cool, as is good cuttin, etc. but this bullshit about who would hear it? Jap, dude, you need to wake up and get your ass educated. i'm here in Europe right now, and there are some slammin parties with almost if not all live stuff going on, and the shit slams!! Don't go touting DJ's as 'needed' cuz they're not. People buy cd's and tapes, and there's a better profit margin in both than in vinyl. Don't get me wrong, I love spinning records too, but this idlolitry and worship shit has got to go. Most DJ's can't even keep up with what I do in the studio. I have to sample the scratches and then tighten it up, which is cool, but still something to think about when turntablists want to get 'I'm all that' about things. And by the way, most great conductors are composers as well, besides the fact that many of them have mastered several instruments, and gotten a decent grasp of the rest of the orchestra to boot. That's how you get to be a conductor. You don't just walk into a sheet music store and say 'I'll pick up the latest arrangement Chopin' and get your homies to bang it out. Drop that analogy cuz it doesn't work, and if it did, it doesn't apply.

Ape



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Message 39/51                 Date: 02-Jun-00  @  01:05 PM   -   RE: Why do people DJ live?

9735184

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Even if you were to push the DJ/conductor and producer/composer analogy, you would realise that what is involved in conducting is by far overshadowed by what is involved in composition. Has a conductor ever been assigned the status of genius like Mozart or Beethoven? No. Sure, without the conductor or musicians , you would not have any music, but we are talking about where credit is due, not what it takes to sustain a musical genre. Composition, regardless of genre, will always deserve the most credit since it is the most demanding. I am neither in any way denegrating highly talented DJ's/muscians/conductors who contribute significantly to music and to people's pleasure nor am I claiming that DJ/musicians/conductors are on the same level or in the same category, they do quite different things. A brilliant musician is hard to come by, but a brilliant composer is even rarer. Pongoid is right in that the composer/conductor distinction is not very clear cut plus, it is tough to compare what is involved with dance music with what is involved in classical. So leaving aside the Dj's that have serious skills and play their decks like an instrument (which is a VERY small proportion), DJ'ing involves sycing BPM's, having good taste, knowing what sits well in the mix/reading the vibe of the crowd. A producer also has to have good taste and know exactly what sits well in a mix and know what people like in advance of being in a club and having a direct link with the crowd. On top of this, a producer has to know how to program synths and beats and learn a whole load of technical jargon. Moreover, a DJ hardly 'moulds' a tune into something else. Crossfading a track in at the end of the previous one, (which is what MOST DJ's do), does not significantly alter the music. Most DJ's do not deserve the status that they have. I have even met people in clubs who think that the DJ made the tunes that he played in his set! I find it depressing the extent to which producers have not been recognised by the public.



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Message 40/51                 Date: 06-Jun-00  @  04:13 AM   -   RE: Why do people DJ live?

jj

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well yes, who could possibly espouse dj superstarism as a positive musical notion. My only concern is that musicians who use decks live, are lumped in with jimmy who just got a couple of 1200's cause he got a B average last semester. You'd be a fool to call jimmy anything but what he is (which I won't say) but I've seen insanely inspired musicians using decks, and it would be the worst possible travesty to deny them membership in your musician's club.


But how about your views on the evolution of thought from Duchamp -> Warhol -> Koonz, pongoid? Did any of those guys cross the art line for you, I'm wondering?



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Message 41/51                 Date: 07-Jun-00  @  05:46 PM   -   RE: Why do people DJ live?

Pongoid

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That's a very tough question regarding the Duchamp->Warhol->Koons evolution of conceptual art versus..."artisan art"(?), and my thoughts on it. I'm not too familiar with Duchamp, in fact not at all, but as for Warhol, and Koons, I don't really have much respect for the pieces they've created, but I can appreciate the pisstakes they've pulled on the art world. I have a lot more respect for someone like Michelangelo, cut and polished his stone BY HAND, and did't get apprentices to color in his frescos, or hire someone else to do it with cash, drugs, or sexual favors. When you see a piece by a certain artist in a gallery, you may compliment the owner on his fine collection, or arranger's taste in display, but you don't offer to blow him onstage for it. You recognize that an artist made the piece itself, and that artist matters as a creative individual.

Okay, let's say you take a little sculpture by one artist, and another from another artist, perhaps, laying one on top of another. It would be very hard to say simply 'installation by _(arranger's name)_' without acknowledging who the two 'arranged'pieces were in fact made by without being a considdered a completely egocentric fuckhead posing as some sort of artist wannabe. Now if hundreds of pieces were arranged in a way that all togther form a complete piece, with each piece contributing to the whole, each being a significant contibutor to the identity of a piece as a whole,that might be seen as a different case. I suppose it depends where you draw the line of contributing elements as individual pieces in their own rites. I would have a bit of a hard time worrying about the guy at the paint factory who mixed William Alexander's Prussian Blue while looking at it in another mundane still life of trees in front of mountains with ochre cliffs and pink sunset skies, painted by another bored nursing home patient, you know what I mean?

Now, if the piece consisted of a piece of hand beaten papyrus, splashed with some psychedelic insanity of a single colour of paint, that came completely textured with dust of mother of pearl, and obsidian slivers, I might be interested in the name of the guy that made the paint.

Did they cross the art line? Sounds like an argument of somantics.


Ape



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Message 42/51                 Date: 16-Jun-00  @  11:35 AM   -   RE: Why do people DJ live?

Pongoid

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So that's it?

Ape



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Message 43/51                 Date: 16-Jun-00  @  11:52 AM   -   RE: Why do people DJ live?

damballah

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That was pretty good. Almost as good as the strap-on one. Yep.



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Message 44/51                 Date: 16-Jun-00  @  01:26 PM   -   RE: Why do people DJ live?

Pongoid

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...and that!



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Message 45/51                 Date: 20-Jun-00  @  01:35 AM   -   RE: Why do people DJ live?

jojo the dog faced boy

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just to distract the thread ....
i gots me a friend who begun djing `bout 12 months ago and has recently come down with what could be called discjock cranial imflamation( i.e he thinks he's good )

He claims that that art of djing beats the shit out of a live PA and that the only good producers are dj's.

I fuck around with me bedroom studio (which is practically nothing) and can't really make cool shit as yet. i kinda dj by numbers (find the exact bpm and shift by the speed control. roughly 1 tone = roughly 1 bpm. add or subtract. Only works for about 100-130 bpm and past there things go awry

meanwhile him with a bunch of other people productions in his all too trendy record bag gets to ponce around like the next supasta (spelt as is)

What the hell am i gonna tell him .... when i can't make anything good yet

i firmly belive that a live pa with your dat players and sequencers and mixers and whatnot has more creative control then 6 grams of vinyl on two tired ol 1200's and can rock the crowd more.

Would you rather see a live act then a dj ?

lets open the lines
first caller, you're on the air



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Message 46/51                 Date: 20-Jun-00  @  08:14 AM   -   RE: Why do people DJ live?

nobody

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well what I like is when dj's get caught up doing blow & forget not to trainwreck mixes. educate us all in boomcha a bit. fuck. i'd rather DO. right now i'm waiting for my coffee & then i'm going to um.. work. then i come home & be supasta dj! some (very very few) dj's rock. some "live" acts are so worthless or obnoxious as to rouse moral indignation. ok well that's the dictionary definition of despicable. everyone sucks. i don't generalize anything ever at all. i still love to touch vinyl though. headphones can cause hearing damage anyway.. and to one ear only, depending. hi!



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Message 47/51                 Date: 20-Jun-00  @  07:52 PM   -   RE: Why do people DJ live?

pongoid

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You got a bud who's been playing records and has his head up his ass? Only DJ's make good producers? Tell this shithead he's retarded, and ask him to try to do something original, without other peoples' sounds. SO you're still a beginner. Wait a bit and let him get grow out of his shit. He will. They all do eventually. They finally learn that they need us, and we don't need them, then they realize the score. The public may never learn this, but as long as you can eat, who cares about the fame bullshit? It's really all just bullshit. I'm telling you. Have the prick read this thread as well. He'll shut right up. He can't argue these points in this thread. you should read it all too.


Ape



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Message 48/51                 Date: 21-Jun-00  @  03:02 AM   -   RE: Why do people DJ live?

terrac

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Well, there is probably not too much that I feel that has not already been said, but I can sum it up with a small phrase.
Records take less work to play for people than electronic instruments. Also a more diverse range of sound is available from a smaller collection of things.
This is why people play records more often than gear.



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Message 49/51                 Date: 21-Jun-00  @  08:11 AM   -   RE: Why do people DJ live?

Pongoid

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Word, bro. So cool to see you here. Big ups. Check out Mokney Morcel in music/tech.

Ape



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Message 50/51                 Date: 10-Jul-00  @  08:41 PM   -   RE: Why do people DJ live?

brad

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pongoid 6/20
WINS.

And now for some statistics pulled straight out of my ass, or rather, my perception.

About 5% of DJs deserve musical creativity credit.
These are the guys who are pulling on records so much that you don't even think about making requests, and these are the guys who are chucking them up at the lights and weird shit like that. Or, at the VERY least, it is their job to have some music that NO ONE else has yet, to be an ambassador. That's probably another 5%, and I respect their diligence.

About 90% of DJs enjoy the ignorance the public has with regard to the difference between reproduced and
produced music, and they prosper from it often, while musicians hide, away from society, zoning in on their art. Higher form of life? 90% of the time, yes.
Most DJs are just play-pushing pussy hounds. Please excuse my burst of righteousness.



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Message 51/51                 Date: 13-Jul-00  @  10:32 PM   -   RE: Why do people DJ live?

D.R.

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WHO THE FUCK IS USING MY TAG. I don't even like Q-burt or give a shit about most DJ's. Who ever you are grow some balls and quit fucking around with my tag. Use your own damn name.I can speak for my damn self.-DiamondRoof



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