Original Message 1/13                 Date: 27-Nov-00  @  09:34 PM   -   Stereo Expansion

Speedload

Posts:

Link?:  No link

File?:  No file

I need tips on how to to make my music stereo expanded and still balanced.

If I expand the drums the rest sounds crappy and things.

I would appreciate any advice on this matter. What do I have to think about?

[ back to forum ]               [quote]

Message 2/13                 Date: 28-Nov-00  @  02:04 AM   -   RE: Stereo Expansion

k

Posts:

Link?:  No link

File?:  No file

got any delay units?.. are you working on a hardware mixer or in s/w ?

[ back to forum ]               [quote]

Message 3/13                 Date: 28-Nov-00  @  05:01 PM   -   RE: Stereo Expansion

Speedload

Posts:

Link?:  No link

File?:  No file

Ahh... Damn... This may have been a bad place to post my question I guess but thanks for trying to answer anyway!

Well... I don't have any real hardware delay units and stuff. I mostly use software.

I've found that it's really, really hard to keep a track balanced when using stereo expansion

Maybe I should add that I use cooledit pro for most reverb/delay effects.

Why is it so hard to keep everything balanced?

When try to create drums or basslines with a wide stereo field everything just start sounding crappy.

Not sure what to do =( I mainly try to create trance like tunes.

[ back to forum ]               [quote]

Message 4/13                 Date: 28-Nov-00  @  05:43 PM   -   RE: Stereo Expansion

Defector Z

Posts:

Link?:  No link

File?:  No file

Part of your problem may be that you are trying to put your bass and kiks out that far. Generally, it's best to keep your bass line and kiks center - they take up so much room on their own, and if they are out on the edges with your hats, snares, fx synths, it all gets muddy - just too much happening in the same place. Does that sound like the problem?

And why is this the wrong place? Seems perfectly logical to put a mixing question in the mix area. :-)

[ back to forum ]               [quote]

Message 5/13                 Date: 28-Nov-00  @  05:51 PM   -   RE: Stereo Expansion

Speedload

Posts:

Link?:  No link

File?:  No file

Defector Z: Is it really a mixing problem then? I think that music theory would be more appropiate.

Oh, well =) Thanks for answering.

I never put reverb and stuff on my bassdrums.

Yeah... I recognise the muddiness but it's not because of my bass stuff.

Should I use exactly the same reverb and delay values for each instrument and things?

[ back to forum ]               [quote]

Message 6/13                 Date: 28-Nov-00  @  06:01 PM   -   RE: Stereo Expansion

Defector Z

Posts:

Link?:  No link

File?:  No file

Yeah - it sounds like mixing. Music theory would discuss scales and such.

Maybe there's a terminology issue here (maybe it is theory after all ;-). When you say stereo expansion, I am thinking that you are trying to spread the stereo field, so that something that is mostly on the left side of the stereo field goes ALL the way out.

You need to be very juducious in your use of reverb. If you are trying to mix two GREAT sounding synth patches that have these wonderful delays and fantastic reverbs, there's your problem. On their own, the sounds NEED the reverbs and delays to sound full. But in a mix, all those reverbs just add up to complete utter crap.

You're using Cool Edit Pro? Do you have a stereo delay device? If so, you should have the ability to adjust the pan amounts for each channel. So, you can take a centered sound (a snare drum, for example) and have the delay ping-pong from the left side to the right side.

But be VERY careful with your reverbs. If you have alot of stuff going on, and each instrument has a reverb, you get mud.

[ back to forum ]               [quote]

Message 7/13                 Date: 28-Nov-00  @  06:12 PM   -   RE: Stereo Expansion

Speedload

Posts:

Link?:  No link

File?:  No file

Yes... I mainly use Cooledit Pro and no I don't have any stereo delay device. But most generators support stereo delays in different ways I guess.

The reverbs may be the problem. A guy I know told me that I need much more reverbs in my hihats and my synthlines.


Found that it was quite a big step to take... Stereo expansion and reverbs are very hard to balance  

I'll just have to play around more I guess. I'll see what happens.

Thanks for all advices.

[ back to forum ]               [quote]

Message 8/13                 Date: 28-Nov-00  @  09:30 PM   -   RE: Stereo Expansion

carbonize

Posts:

Link?:  No link

File?:  No file

Reverb often tends to put the sounds "farther" away and if you have the same reverb on everything or the same reverb with the same value then it will sound kinda blury since everything is placed in the same stereo field. Try to stereo expand only a certain instrument, like a lead or a string and leave the rest unexpaned/unwidened... The right delay can make the sound more "close" and gives a cleaner stereo feeling. bassdrums sounds like shit when reverbed hehe. if you stereo expand more than 1 instrument, try to keep a different value on each so that they don't get in the way of eachother. It's just as important to have a good equalized product though. If not, the stereo widening won't sound good anyway.

[ back to forum ]               [quote]

Message 9/13                 Date: 29-Nov-00  @  06:23 PM   -   RE: Stereo Expansion

k

Posts:

Link?:  No link

File?:  No file

aha i see... simple answer... DONT DO IT !!!.. NOT TO DRUMS...

[ back to forum ]               [quote]

Message 10/13                 Date: 30-Nov-00  @  01:42 PM   -   RE: Stereo Expansion

Jasper

Posts: 424

Link?:  No link

File?:  No file

without using reverb on hihats you could dephase em, that involves an identical sample playing from a point slightly further into the sample.. one panned left say 35% one panned right 35%.. the yamaha samplers have this as a feature (detune/dephase and width control) .. layering different hat sounds like this results (usually) in a nice flowing hat sound.

techno acts will drive the hihats sounds through something to get that elusive fizzyness.

[ back to forum ]               [quote]

Message 11/13                 Date: 04-Dec-00  @  10:34 PM   -   RE: Stereo Expansion

Speedload

Posts:

Link?:  No link

File?:  No file

Thanks again for a lot of nice answers.

I tried some of the ideas and I managed to get it to sound somewhat like how I wanted it anyway.

My next problem is the equalization thingy. What kind of software should I use to eq my instruments and is there any standard setups I should use?

I've managed to get things to sound somewhat "real" but something is still missing. Hard to just hear what's optimal at times especially when you haven't got any really good speakers at home like me.

I will take care of that problem in a near future though of course  

Take care all

[ back to forum ]               [quote]

Message 12/13                 Date: 06-Dec-00  @  07:58 PM   -   RE: Stereo Expansion

shpongledboy

Posts: 80

Link?:  No link

File?:  No file

I have posted this already once but this might help you... so here... try this:

1. Record your lead or whatever sound to mono track.

2. Open recorded file in audio editor and convert it back to stereo.

3. Duplicate that file.

4. Roll of all HIGH frequencies ABOVE 1kHz from file_1...

5. ...and roll of all LOW frequencies BELOW 1kHz from file_2.

6. Now add stereo fx to file_2 with some plugin.

7. Mix file_1 and file_2 together(50/50).

Now you should have lead sound which have bass frequencies in center and high frequencies widely spread in stereo field.
I read this from Keyboard magazine and when I tried it I thought it sounded huge. So this might help you a little bit and it sounds professional if done with care.

[ back to forum ]               [quote]

Message 13/13                 Date: 10-Dec-00  @  03:36 PM   -   RE: Stereo Expansion

Pongoid

Posts: 2003

Link?:  Link

File?:  No file

here's a little trick for percussion sounds. You probably won't want to do this to kicks, bass or primary snares/claps, but works great on hats, and wierd noises. Try sticking the sounds through a slight (1-20ms, no feedback) delay, and put the dry on one side and the 100%wet on the other side, and bounce them back and forth randomly in the mix, and just watch what happens. this is after whatever other effects you want to put on the individual sound. Do it to each sound individually, and then watch what happens with four or five sounds. You can even apply slight (maybe LFO based) volume variations to each side. Add a bit of reverb to each side , and you're talking about all kinds of serious expansion and separation, creating a very large sound. That's a it of a complex way of doing it, but it works.


Ape

[ back to forum ]               [quote]