Original Message 1/22                 Date: 11-Nov-00  @  03:40 PM   -   Mixing for MP3 Conversion

ed

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Can anyone provide some info or links to info about tweaking my mix prior to converting to MP3? Sometimes the kick drum and other details just dissapear when set to any lower bitrate.

For example:

Hi-Fi at mp3.com is okay

Lo-Fi SUX

Anyone??? Ferris???

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Message 2/22                 Date: 13-Nov-00  @  07:49 AM   -   RE: Mixing for MP3 Conversion

ville

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that's brain surgery ...
i know that if you have lot of dynamics and lots of sharp peaks it screws up the whole shit easier.

Encoders are also differend. plugger+ algoritm has been best from which i've used.

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Message 3/22                 Date: 13-Nov-00  @  02:14 PM   -   RE: Mixing for MP3 Conversion

ed

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So are you suggesting perhaps compression of some sort prior to encoding?

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Message 4/22                 Date: 13-Nov-00  @  02:53 PM   -   RE: Mixing for MP3 Conversion

Defector Z

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Spent some time on Friday at http://www.homerecording.com and learned quite a bit. They are long reads, but definitely worth it, IMO. Good question - I hope more people post links... mixing is HARD.

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Message 5/22                 Date: 13-Nov-00  @  04:59 PM   -   RE: Mixing for MP3 Conversion

ed

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Thanks for the link. You should definitly check out Prorec.com

Tons of good info. But not the answer to my question :{

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Message 6/22                 Date: 13-Nov-00  @  07:19 PM   -   RE: Mixing for MP3 Conversion

Defector Z

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Right. To tell you the truth, I think your time would be better mixing for a home stereo. :-) Like someone said above, different proggy's and different bit rates make a big difference. Some sound better than others, but on the whole, when you remove samples from an audio file, you lose quality. You're probably wasting your time trying to recover what's been thrown out.

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Message 7/22                 Date: 13-Nov-00  @  07:30 PM   -   RE: Mixing for MP3 Conversion

ed

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Actualy, I think I've found the answer. We were using a stereo sample for the kick and after looking at it realized that when the codec squished it, there was phase cancellation going on.

Converted the kick to mono and not only did it sound better in the mix, when we squished it (although it picked up the usual artifacts) it was at least still there.

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Message 8/22                 Date: 13-Nov-00  @  09:49 PM   -   RE: Mixing for MP3 Conversion

Defector Z

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No shit. Well, I learned something new today. Watch out for stereo kicks - they screw you from the left and right. heheheh. Sorry.

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Message 9/22                 Date: 15-Nov-00  @  11:13 AM   -   RE: Mixing for MP3 Conversion

ville

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Good point!!! Never thought of that.

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Message 10/22                 Date: 16-Nov-00  @  04:07 AM   -   RE: Mixing for MP3 Conversion

k

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jesus H... dont use stereo drum samples PERIOD !!!!... first of all there is no point.... ever seen a stereo drum !!!??? - all you are getting in the stereo sample is any room acoustics, reverb or added stereo fx.. but the DRUM IS MONO... so forget stereo drum samples - never ever used one in my whole life... drums are mono sound sources set within a stereo field, you mixes will instantly improve

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Message 11/22                 Date: 16-Nov-00  @  12:12 PM   -   RE: Mixing for MP3 Conversion

ville

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how stupid do i feel now......  
Life long journey truly.

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Message 12/22                 Date: 17-Nov-00  @  05:50 AM   -   RE: Mixing for MP3 Conversion

Mr.Wet

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Yeah but I got a track with a doubled-up kik (like when you double a vocal track) and it sounds great! NOT hard panned but just enuff to give a huge sense of space...worked for me anyway.

As far as mixing for MP3, I had this sneaking suspicion that maximized/excited/HOT mixes always sounded worse than a mix with a little headroom when encoded to MP3. Reading thru a Media Cleaner Pro4 manual, they said the same thing! But I'm not that picky to make a seperate mix just for MP3- it's gonna sound like shit anyway...

Mr.Wet

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Message 13/22                 Date: 17-Nov-00  @  04:15 PM   -   RE: Mixing for MP3 Conversion

http://www.mp3.com/silverbird

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hey! good theme, check out if mixing 'for' mp3 conversion has worked:

http://www.mp3.com/silverbird

thx & greetings

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Message 14/22                 Date: 17-Nov-00  @  06:35 PM   -   RE: Mixing for MP3 Conversion

Defector Z

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fuck off spammers!!!!!! stoopit bastard.

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Message 15/22                 Date: 17-Nov-00  @  06:57 PM   -   RE: Mixing for MP3 Conversion

damballah

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The only exception I can think to that stereo drum rule is stereo miked (x-y, m-s, etc) overheads, that is recording the kit as a single instrument. Even then, you close mike the kick and snare. In mono. A stereo kick. Ha!

Unfornately, it seems some people equate how high all the meters go in winamp with sound quality. Squeeze those last couple of decibels of apparent volume out. I tend to think it's better sounding to go easy on all that limiting and compression and leave some dynamics and headroom in the tunes.

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Message 16/22                 Date: 17-Nov-00  @  07:01 PM   -   RE: Mixing for MP3 Conversion

d

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that's 'unfortunately'

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Message 17/22                 Date: 17-Nov-00  @  07:30 PM   -   RE: Mixing for MP3 Conversion

Mr.Wet

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Hey that 'stereo' kik soundz great! I mean,
duh, it's from a mono source, I just
double-tracked it in the chorus : P

And I dunno, I have some nice sounding
STEREO drum samples from Bob
Clearmountain that I have certainly put to
good use...

Anyway,speaking of levels in winamp, have
you ever decoded a MP3 to wav and seen
how LOW the level is? It's weird...guess
that's why winamp's got a pre-amp?

Mr.Wet

ps looking forward to your email damballah,
thanks

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Message 18/22                 Date: 17-Nov-00  @  08:36 PM   -   RE: Mixing for MP3 Conversion

Defector Z

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I mixed to Winamps levels for a while. I learned how bad an idea that was as soon as I played the mix somewhere else.

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Message 19/22                 Date: 19-Nov-00  @  06:32 PM   -   RE: Mixing for MP3 Conversion

gawaineparker

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just a note about the doubling of mono sounds,unless you slightly detune or delay one of them all you are effectively doing is doubling the amplitude.

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Message 20/22                 Date: 20-Nov-00  @  01:44 PM   -   RE: Mixing for MP3 Conversion

Defector Z

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Off-set them a tiny fration of a second and you get a cool phasing sound. :-)

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Message 21/22                 Date: 22-Nov-00  @  12:48 PM   -   RE: Mixing for MP3 Conversion

volley

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Defector, that's a classic when using trackers. For example, a double-tracked snare with the detuning of one track LFOed sound rather neat.  

Dang, I want a "tracker view" in Logic. =)

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Message 22/22                 Date: 22-Nov-00  @  09:02 PM   -   RE: Mixing for MP3 Conversion

99devils

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There's a good article in last month's
"Recording" rag on "Audio On and Off the
Internet", which includes some tips on
mixing for MP3... The two I remember
off the top of my head are to limit the
amount of stereo seperation in your
tracks, and to limit the dynamic range
of the mix. I think that both of those
tips were to help shrink the file size
down, though...

I will look when I get home.

-Craig

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