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They got what came around too didn't they, in Chechnya? If you expect people
to treat your own women and children with respect, it's probably not a good
idea to slaughter so many in the first place?
Yes, but nobody asked those children, right?
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I don't understand your point.
My point is that ALL land was grabbed. Israelis and Arabs both grabbed that land at one point in time.
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There is no role for law, national or
international? The strongest wins
and that's ok?
NO. That's why I abohre the idea of people deliberately blowing up children. Get the point?
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It's ok for the US to pump billions of dollars every year
into funding the Israeli war machine and then act surprised when the
Palestinians are prepared to stand up and fight? Wouldn't you do the same in
your country?
Well, of course I would. But the Hamas and consorts are deliberately targeting women and children, aren't they? They aren't in it to divide the land equaly, they aren't in it to let the Jews and Arabs live peacefully side by side: they want to wipe out the Jews. (Yes there are plenty of sicko Jews and fundi Christians who would love to do the opposite) Perhaps YOU should wonder why in the Arab world Mein Kampf is a best seller, why the protocols of the elders of Zion are being sold like hot cakes, why their are still stories being told about satanic Jews eating matzes with the blood of Muslim children.
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Except that over 5 times as many Palestinian children have been killed by
the Israelis, just since 2000:
Yes, the Israeli's ARE on the upper hand military. Go figure.
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Funnily enough tho, the Palestinian kids just don't get the same news
coverage as the Israeli children? Racism maybe?
Perhaps in your country they don't. Here it is the exact opposite: anti-semitism maybe? Media ARE biased, live with it.
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This the same Churchill that recommended the use of air strikes and gas
against the Iraqis to quell those troublesome tribesmen? That's a straw man
argument.
No it isn't. It is a clear demonstration that the FAR for perfect Churchill (an imperialist and a aristocrat by all means) WAS the 'good' guy. A clear distinction CAN be made, even if it isn't always as black and white as you perhaps would like the world to be.
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Bastiaan: Preparation for that bomb has started in 2000, before a single
Spanish soldier has set foot on either Iraq and Afghanistan. Think about
that.
You really think this shit started happening in 2000?
No. That's exactly my point. How on earth could anything this Spanish government has done be the reason for what happened in Madrid.
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OK... you obviously never read your history? The whole basis of capitalism
and the 'free (now there's a joke) market' is slavery, capitalism and
colonialism and present day 'free marketeers and capitalists' are still
using the military and economic might of the west to rip off the rest of the
world.
Rubbish. Capatalism can and does function without slavery, without waging war and without colonies. What countries did norway colonize? What countries do the Indians suck dry? How many slaves will you find in Findland?
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The first stock market was founded in Amsterdam in 1602 and used to fund
the Dutch East India Company...and guess what country they forced to engage
in 'free trade' with them?
That WASN'T free trade. That was theft. And no, Dutch wealth wasn't built on that. If you had read your history you would have know that Holland was a rather backward nation of farmers and fisherman well untill after WWII. Colonialism made us rich only for a short period of time. It was the build up AFTER the wrar that gave us our present day richness. Even during the 17th century most money was made NOT by trading slaves or by colonising the East, it was made by trading such bland things like wool, linnen, wood, salt and bricks. The eastsea trade made us far more money than the trade with Asia or Africa.
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To take your rather ridiculous 'examples' of western countries with no such
history:
Norway: Population 4 million, main trade until last century fishing. Then
they discovered Oil!
Yes, and they sell the oil. They are doing quite well.
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Switzerland: Vault for illegally acquired spoils such as Nazi gold etc etc
So? Do you really think Switserland is built upon nazi gold? Or are you just poisining the well?
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Germany: Many colonies in Africa
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etc...
Finland, India, Taiwan, the Czech republic...I could go on.
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It won't stop 'terrorism' any more than it will stop wars agreed.
Perhaps, but it won't save the Christians on the moluccas Islans, nor will it save the Thai farmers and monks from having their temples blown off.
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surely, though, a way to decrease those who are prepared to support such
acts. At the moment we are just radicalising ever increasing numbers of
people across the planet by our arrogant, morally bankrupt military
imperialism. So, achieving the exact opposite of what is claimed to be the
purpose of these actions.
That may be the case, but ultimately it is those who deliberately point their guns at babies and pull that trigger that are responsible. Ultimately it is those who are the terrorists. You see, some people are just plain wicked, plain evil, they are terrorists and they will hate and destroy no matter WHAT you offer them. Prime examples would be the KKK, muslim Fundis and neo-Nazis. There is no point in blaming the 'imperial war machine of the west' if these idiots are attacking countries that aren't even part of the imperial western warmachine: people in the southern Philipines, people in the eastern provinces of Indonesia, people in Thailand, Algeria, Southern Russia...I could go on for a bit: you should get the picture by now.
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Bastiaan: In Indonesia areas are being 'cleansed' of pagans, Christians and
Hindus, people who are native to the land and have nothing to do with
slavery, colonialism and genocide.
As before, read your Indonesian history! A pointer: Until 1945 there was no
such place as Indonesia, it was called 'Netherlands East Indies'. Even then,
this recognition applied only to territory the Republic physically
controlled (principally Sumatra, Java and Madura). The rest of the region
remained under Dutch colonial rule! In fact the Dutch launched a so-called
'police action' to recapture Indonesian-held territory.
Yes I know this very well, my own family was at both the receiving and the attacking end of that stick.
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Somewhat understandably the Indonesians turned to the Communist powers for
help as the 'protectors of freedom, democracy and justice' seemingly didn't
want any of these things happening in one of their colonies.
That's untrue. The only part dutch rule remained was in Papua / Irian Jaya (That's because the Papuans wanted to become a country of their own) Papuans were trained in Holland to govern an indipendent country. It was AFTER the retreat of the Dutch that the Indonesians colonised that part of the country as well. Just like they had cleansed the land of rebellious other elements before that. In 1965 (that's almost 20 years after the dutch had left) hundred of thousands of Chinese were butchered...just because they were chinese.
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You can guessthe rest: deliberate destabilisation, attempted coups by CIA backed 'freedom fighters' (oops terrorists).
Rubbish. This is all stuff from the 50's and the 60's. I am talking about what is happening NOW. I am talking about what is being done NOW. By certain radicals who are NOT paid by the CIA. There are no communists left in Indonesia.
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By the way, the Portuguese still kept their hands on East Timor until 1975,
hardly ancient history this stuff is it?
And how would THAT be a reason for Indonesians to slaughter eastern Timorese AFTER they had run over that colony very much against the wished of those who lived there...how does that in ANY way relate to what is happening in Aceh, in Solo, in Ambon, on Halmahera, in Papua?
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Gee, is it any wonder there are lot of pissed of people around the planet,
STILL trying to get out from the dead hand of the 'Free West'?
Bullshit. Timor has NO relation to what has happened in other parts of Indo. As a matter of fact, Timor is a prime example of the Indonesians trampling all over a people that did NOT want to be part of that country. But Timor was also not part of my list of examples. Perhaps you should study those instead?