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Subject: russia


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Original Message                 Date: 03-Sep-04  @  04:05 PM   -   russia

mcc>

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when will man's spirit learn to accept the rule of a larger omnipotent police-state and
learn to denounce the desire to live free and independent lives?

and why is the U.S. so eager to help russia maintain it's borders now...when not that long ago....it denounced it as empire?
and actually spent mega-billions trying to contain it?
in some ways it might be more free...but is it?
how is it that those who were considered freedom-fighters are now be terrorists?

well....for one.....those poor children and their families.

it seems war has no prejudice against the innocent and never will.



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Message 41/88                 Date: 13-Sep-04  @  03:35 PM   -   RE: russia

nutoniom

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scrolling through all this, i could't help to notice the high count of "democracy"
wich prompt this little phrase from memory:

"democracy WILL prevail"

a piece of rock covered in bird shit.

here today, guano tomorrow



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Message 42/88                 Date: 13-Sep-04  @  04:51 PM   -   RE: russia

mcc>

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it's nice to see zazza this involved again.

but bastiaan....i think at the core of this...is the matter that we're so able to
turn this into an "us against them" sort of thing.
when we replace commodities such as oil and rubber and coffee with ideals such as freedom and democracy....
all of our basic beliefs go out the window.
not the beliefs themselves but the reality of those beliefs.

i'm just hoping one day we're not calling a cat a dog.
they both have 4 legs a tail and mEOw...after all.



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Message 43/88                 Date: 13-Sep-04  @  06:43 PM   -   RE: russia

xoxos

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most revealing spoonerism of the year goes to:

"corporate America is probably not the moral guideline for the rest of the
world to loop upon in awe"

lolololol :P

knowledge.. it's in you, it's in me ;)



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Message 44/88                 Date: 14-Sep-04  @  01:17 AM   -   RE: russia

Pongoid

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Well this thread would be rather interesting, but for the fact that in most cases folks are underinformed. We have only what classrooms and history books tell us, and frankly...that ain't what happened. It's what somebody else wants you to remember about events, not the real intricacies, and even silliness of past events. We can rant on and get all huffed up about things that politicians, "historians" and journalists tell us, but it really does very little good. We can't change the past, and we have little influence as individuals on things so far away. On the other hand, we have significant influence on things right in front of us.

See, that's the WHOLE big trick: "Here, look at the horrible things one person says anotehr did in somewhere far away...", while right in front of you, so close you can touch it, hear it, see it from across the street, people YOU know are getting their lives fucked with by agents of the government, from metre-maids to tax-officers, from policemen to lawyers and judges and landlords, bankers, insurance swindlers. It's all happening right in front of you and because you are so intrigued by the little box that lets you watch, and do nothing but get interested in wasting more of your energy, that you just sit there and take it, completely disempowering yourself, until, as xoxos so aptly explained, you crack. You !pop! lose your shit and turn into a soon to die malfunctioning unit, another statistic. Normal shit and it happens EVERY SINGLE DAY, all over the place. You watch the box, and think "oh that can't happen here, won't happen to me...". Mark my words, you do one of a few things: You'll wake up and start trying to fight off the yoke in any and every way you can, you'll drug/fix yourself into denial, you'll snap, or you'll die before you have a chance to do one of the other three. Chances are, you're already doing one of the three, unless of course, you're doing the last and worst possible, that being that you just finally throw up your hands and say "If you can't beat them, join them." then keeping your head in the sand and happily going along with things to fuck it up for nearly ALL organic life on this planet, and possibly for others if things continue along this path, and we don't wipe out the entire biosphere before we successfully achieve interstellar travel.

You want to worry about Russia? Get your shots and your passport and go there. See the realites, and make a difference. Otherwise, worry about your own shit in front of you. You have WAY more control over it, and the fact is that actions you take right in front of you will probably have a far greater effect on things far away than you can ever realize or foresee. Worry about the shit you CAN change. As for the labels and spins folks put on things to generate sympathy or hostility towards others? Fuck'em. I have my friends, and just because somebody wearing a nice suit down the street says that my friends are bad, and did this and said that, and still these, and killed them, and wants so-and-so, and will blablabla if____ doesn't ****** doesn NOT make it real and does NOT stop my friends from being friends. What it does mean is that the folks down the street want others to look at my friends and not the folks down the street. That's all it means.

"Hey! Look over there, a seagull!!" and the snatch more off of your plate. You gonna be happy about it? Gonna keep letting them?

Ape



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Message 45/88                 Date: 14-Sep-04  @  03:02 AM   -   RE: russia

mcc>

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everything starts at home...surely.
it's where i make my music.

but like i told my customer after completing this last gruelling project>
and it came time to settle our accounts.....i said...tony....i remember
you telling me i was always fair when it came time to billing you for additional work required to do the job.....(we're both sitting at his kitchen table in his VERY nice house)......

and i said well...i think it's time you joined me and humanity in this endeavor towards fairness to our fellow men.....and so this is what i'm requesting from you.
needless to say.....he let out a small explosion.....and then smiled and payed.
sometimes...for some of us at least...it's all about how much we allow ourselves to get screwed in our regular transactions.
anyway...i'll make less of a difference in russia than i would here.....so i'll pass on that but i'll continue to occasionally think and talk about it....it's people and troubles
just i imagine russians occasionally think and talk about our little empire to the....
are we east or west of russia anyways?



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Message 46/88                 Date: 14-Sep-04  @  06:47 AM   -   RE: russia

mcc>

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at some point.....we're no more than what we can imagine.
and even then we're only imagining.



it's reality's way to only get in the way.



once all of those are gone who imagined these things having happened to us.....
those things will no longer have ever happened.

til then we cry.



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Message 47/88                 Date: 14-Sep-04  @  05:00 PM   -   RE: russia

xoxos

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have the talk after you get paid :D



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Message 48/88                 Date: 14-Sep-04  @  10:51 PM   -   RE: russia

mcc>

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where's the risk...fun...in that?


funny....it's been 15 years since i wrote stuff on a cutomer's walls while i was working on them but.....
the week of the RNC convention.....
they came home to this:

STUPID PEOPLE START WARS!
COOL FOLKS MARCH AGAINST THEM>
i LUV NY.



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Message 49/88                 Date: 15-Sep-04  @  12:16 AM   -   RE: russia

Influx

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you write graffiti in people's homes? heh. thats pretty fckin funny really



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Message 50/88                 Date: 15-Sep-04  @  06:05 AM   -   RE: russia

mcc>

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it was a special occasion.....you might say.

and it was funny....

but the wall looks much better in stone.

about 15 years ago we were working for a huge weapon's contactor here in sd....and
we scrawled anti-war slogans where the baseboard went.
usually you label them 1a..or south wall 1..south wall 2...etc...but we used these slogans as our labelling system.
my boss was a quaker pacifist and was raised anti-war so he wouldn't fire us.....but he did have to assure our customer that no one would see the slogans once the baseboard went back up!!!!!!
LOL!!!!



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