Original Message 1/38                 Date: 21-Aug-03  @  10:15 AM   -   human animals

cheddar

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so are humans just another animal or are we separate from the rest of the 'beasts'

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Message 2/38                 Date: 21-Aug-03  @  12:08 PM   -   RE: human animals

dubmunkey

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both

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Message 3/38                 Date: 21-Aug-03  @  12:15 PM   -   RE: human animals

spot

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we are animals, my missus is a cow and she says i'm a pig

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Message 4/38                 Date: 21-Aug-03  @  12:33 PM   -   RE: human animals

§ï†ÅR

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you dog

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Message 5/38                 Date: 21-Aug-03  @  01:45 PM   -   RE: human animals

spot

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you cvnt....no wait, thats not an animal....oh well ;)

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Message 6/38                 Date: 21-Aug-03  @  05:54 PM   -   RE: human animals

errata

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Both is a good answer...

I think in the end we are different, to an extent... in that we are sentient. People look at tails and thumbs for the difference... I say it's the brain. Our ability to think abstractly... to recognize, "This shit sucks, the way we're doing it is wrong". Animals don't really have this, yeah if you kick a cat it thinks, "Thi shit sucks!" but it doesn't change (or even consider changing) the fundamental way in which it goes about things... very few animals can do this, some cephalopods and humans.. it think that's it.

Anyway, that's my serious answer,...

e

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Message 7/38                 Date: 21-Aug-03  @  06:07 PM   -   RE: human animals

pict

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We are animals of the genus:Homo,species:sapien we interact with our environment in a different way to other species of animals that's all.The idea that we are anything but animals is purely human conceit.

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Message 8/38                 Date: 21-Aug-03  @  06:12 PM   -   RE: human animals

errata

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It's true, but Pict... there is no conceit in other animals (that we can recognize, I'll grant).

I think the idea that all animals have a way of doing this and humans are the only ones who do it differently points to something. Of course that something may well be a load of crap, eh?

I'm not saying we're superior. And I'm not suggesting that we should view ourselves as seperate from this natural order of the planet... frankly I think that's what's gotten us into ALL of the trouble we seem to have. But again, the idea that we see ourselves in this light contrasts with other species...

e

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Message 9/38                 Date: 21-Aug-03  @  06:26 PM   -   RE: human animals

pict

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I think think that a dog(for example)is as absorbed with being a dog as we are with being human we can imagine what it's like to be a dog but the act of imagining is us being human making use of our ability to imagine,we don't know for sure that a dog doesn't imagine what it's like to be a human and just as a dog can't know what it's like to be human we can't really know,for all our imagination what it's like to be a dog we could be totally off the mark and they might simply be letting us do all the work getting a relatively cushy life by absolving responsiblity for their own lives onto us.We're quite good at getting food together so it's only intelligent behaviour to be on our good side so that they can get a share of the grub and thus survive more easily.

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Message 10/38                 Date: 21-Aug-03  @  08:28 PM     Edit: 21-Aug-03  |  08:31 PM   -   RE: human animals

Steve Roughley

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"there is no conceit in other animals (that we can recognize, I'll grant)."

Do you have a cat E? Or a horse?

It allways comes down to things like the opposable thumb and the articulate tongue. These are part of the reason that we have become so... erm... eccentric. But the fact remains that we are animals. All animals are different to some extent, but are all so much the same. We share two thirds of our DNA with the fruit fly. And we feature so many functional similarities such as neuroses, which we are allways using to identify the human species apart from the others, which is just plain silly.

Steve.

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Message 11/38                 Date: 21-Aug-03  @  08:50 PM   -   RE: human animals

xoxos

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animus = spirit.. animated.. mexican people say 'animal!' to describe something done with gusto.. (i think that's it) thinking of k's speed freak/plasticine creatures story

dogs are too much like humans for good comparison.. perhaps commonality due to capacity for harm

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Message 12/38                 Date: 21-Aug-03  @  08:51 PM   -   RE: human animals

k

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"Animals don't really have this, yeah if you kick a cat it thinks, "Thi shit sucks!" but it doesn't change (or even consider changing) the fundamental way in which it goes about things"

but how are humans behaving any different now compared to when they were cavepeople?

all that's changed is the technology - not their fundamental behaviour

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Message 13/38                 Date: 21-Aug-03  @  09:00 PM   -   RE: human animals

milan

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you homos!

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Message 14/38                 Date: 21-Aug-03  @  09:10 PM   -   RE: human animals

errata

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No it hasn't changed, but.. I'd say that animals do not have the capacity to recognize a need for change beyond a particular experience (back to the cat knowing it needs to dodge the foot). Humans have not changed, but many see that change is needed. That what we're doing isn't working. Of course it's a matter of opinion on that one... but just that we see a fundamental BIG PICTURE that other animals do not sets us apart.

Are we animals, YES! But I also think we are unique insofar as anything is unique (speaking relativisticaly here of course... as I hold that uniqueness in truth is a myth at all). Humans (as far as i can see) can recognize a fundamental disatisfaction with reality... not just causes and conditions, but with the very nature of the life experience.

Cat's, Horses.. that's not what I'm talking about... they display a form of conceit in that they are Self Absorbed... i"m referring to the human reaction to phenomena that sees the self as a seperate entity and evaluates itself in comparison to other seperate intities it identifies...

It's true we have no way of knowing what a cat/dog/horse is really thinking, but I do not believe (based on my understanding of their behavioral patterns) that they evaluate their behavior based on their interactions with other species... sure, they are aware of other species as being different from them, but do they ask, "Are humans animals too?" I doubt it.. I don't think they conceptualize to that extent.

DNA... hmmmm, i do not except the modern scientific convention that everything I am is based on the roadmap that determined my physical characteristics. There is "something" else that determines who/what I am, or at least plays a role... so, while an interesting point, I'm not sure I think it makes much of a difference. A child born with only 1/4 of a brain has 99.9% identical DNA with a brother born fully cognizant... yet, for purposes of this argument they are inteirely different in every appreciable way!

e

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Message 15/38                 Date: 21-Aug-03  @  11:09 PM     Edit: 21-Aug-03  |  11:10 PM   -   RE: human animals

Steve Roughley

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"Cat's, Horses.. that's not what I'm talking about... they display a form of conceit in that they are Self Absorbed... i"m referring to the human reaction to phenomena that sees the self as a seperate entity and evaluates itself in comparison to other seperate intities it identifies... "

Again... Do you have a cat?

No offence E, but you really are putting far too much into this. Without our complex language there would be no difference. Unless, of course, armadillos could communicate as intensely, in which case, we would be slaughtered for being a threat to the ant populations.

As K said, nothing has changed at all, save our technology. We still operate on the exact same drives and behaviours, whether they be social or personal, as we allways have, since before we were homosapiens. These drives have allways been complex beyond our understanding, but only recently has language given us the ability to confuse ourselves with the subject.

Steve.

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Message 16/38                 Date: 22-Aug-03  @  12:10 AM   -   RE: human animals

errata

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yeah, I do have a cat... already stated my point on that...

I can dig what you're on about. I'm not selling this idea as we're seperate from or superior to animals... but I do "believe" that we are fortunate to be humans in that we have the opportunity to go beyond that programing. I don't think animals do... on the individual level (insofar as there is one) this happens sometimes, as a species??? well there's a lot of room for growth, right?

p

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Message 17/38                 Date: 22-Aug-03  @  01:58 AM   -   RE: human animals

cheddar

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"... in that we are sentient." " Animals don't really have this," "Anyway, that's my serious answer,... " I think this fails cos it doesnot take into account the other patry

"do it differently " is monogamy

" ...as seperate from this natural order of the planet... " is virus

"...se of our ability to imagine" OUR

pict your organisation to make weevil from fog

"has changed . - " getting to know you..."

levers labels

"...see that change is needed" we

"...or at least plays a role" rou8nd again. architecture

cant copy quote but duplicality is a matter of where you are standin. Mining is a together action sport

"Im not selling...etc" - sorry cut an paste is furched

"we are fortunate" is a bit of a special school isnt it

"so i SAID to HIM and stoppped, i had everything right there

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Message 18/38                 Date: 22-Aug-03  @  01:58 AM   -   RE: human animals

cheddar

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"... in that we are sentient." " Animals don't really have this," "Anyway, that's my serious answer,... " I think this fails cos it doesnot take into account the other patry

"do it differently " is monogamy

" ...as seperate from this natural order of the planet... " is virus

"...se of our ability to imagine" OUR

pict your organisation to make weevil from fog

"has changed . - " getting to know you..."

levers labels

"...see that change is needed" we

"...or at least plays a role" rou8nd again. architecture

cant copy quote but duplicality is a matter of where you are standin. Mining is a together action sport

"Im not selling...etc" - sorry cut an paste is furched

"we are fortunate" is a bit of a special school isnt it

"so i SAID to HIM and stoppped, i had everything right there

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Message 19/38                 Date: 22-Aug-03  @  02:06 AM   -   RE: human animals

Broken Silence

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kermie, now this is deep

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Message 20/38                 Date: 22-Aug-03  @  02:07 AM   -   RE: human animals

FUCK

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That was a up there

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Message 21/38                 Date: 22-Aug-03  @  02:46 AM   -   RE: human animals

xoxos

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cat/horse conceit is pure responsivity to human stimulus.. responding to the praise we offer in association with quality treatment.. in order to perpetuate communication, they will act out the part of being on a pedestal.

generally animals have advanced biotechnology which liberates them from circumstantial dependence ie. a cat can go almost anywhere and catch something to eat, it's not going to worry about planning a world w/o feet, ergo your observed lack of long term projection.

to animals, the world is a big place because they do not have the same limits on their needs. not so to humans.. we build social, economic et c. prisons/containers for ourselves.. or rather.. 'you' do so for me..

the legendary time when all creatures could communicate freely is a perception 'we' have removed ourselves from.. as i say, many woodpeckers are particularly enthusiastic about being messengers.. a ground squirrel will happily accomodate human presence and communicate what is safe to eat.. many flying insects have a notorious sense of mischief due to their size and speed, displaying the friendliest aesthetogenic sensibilities. animals tend to take their roles in the interspecies community due to form, but this is far off the calibre of programming we experience from advertisements... i'd say interspecies networking is a superlative condition of long term projection by explicit understanding the condition of life. cultured humans trick themselves into false perception of the condition so that we are easily exploited. if anything, we're the programmed morons. well i put the if anyhting there to be nice.

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Message 22/38                 Date: 22-Aug-03  @  03:22 AM   -   RE: human animals

psylichon

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well i'm glad I waited to reply this long, because that was much more well-stated than anything I could have mustered. Right on, x...

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Message 23/38                 Date: 22-Aug-03  @  08:33 AM   -   RE: human animals

spot

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i read a few of the replies then got bored....you people are nerds...NERDS I tells ya

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Message 24/38                 Date: 22-Aug-03  @  05:50 PM   -   RE: human animals

errata

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your mom's a nerd!

e

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Message 25/38                 Date: 22-Aug-03  @  06:23 PM   -   RE: human animals

psylichon

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Mmmm... nerdy sluts. Now we're talkin my language!

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Message 26/38                 Date: 23-Aug-03  @  07:00 AM   -   RE: human animals

mcc>

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doing a little research of my own....i left out...near an ant-nest....2 items. 1) a book on how to be an effective leader.....
and 2) a fairly-spent can of dog food.
the ants went straight past the book and swarmed the dog-food.
i performed the test again with hesse's siddartha in place of the leadership book....and the ants went straight for the old roy beef, bacon, and liver flavor.
a third time with a copy of hustler. same.

i'm not sure what this means but ants will not eat books.....

this much is certain.

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Message 27/38                 Date: 23-Aug-03  @  11:23 AM   -   RE: human animals

k

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but animals have other skills... could you find your way 10,000 miles with no signs or maps back to the place you were born having only been there once at birth?

Termites build their mounds as a thin narrow construction which is built along the exact arc of the sun's tradjectory so as the mound receives as little direct sunlight as possible to any of it's flat facing exterior, then they build a fully operational air-conditioning system into it. Hot air rises up thru the center pulling cool air in thru the vents along the bottom which rises up and cools the mound. Then they carefuly harvest food which they grow in managed farms in the basement. They have a very strict society with individuals devided into groups with roles which all support each other 'department' of the colony.

They are 'only termites' in our perspective though

That's pretty intelligent I think.

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Message 28/38                 Date: 23-Aug-03  @  04:02 PM   -   RE: human animals

mcc>

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and they didn't need to read a bunch of books to know this. and they don't fight over the old roy's.
they share and share alike. everyone gets some.

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Message 29/38                 Date: 23-Aug-03  @  04:06 PM   -   RE: human animals

d

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hmmm, how do said subjects respond to magnifying glass/sun stimulus while dining on old roys? and while we're at it how does the leadership do with said stimulus? hmmm.

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Message 30/38                 Date: 23-Aug-03  @  04:07 PM   -   RE: human animals

d

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oops, leadership book.

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Message 31/38                 Date: 23-Aug-03  @  07:24 PM   -   RE: human animals

mcc>

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made it up d...you jerk.  

but plenty of my customers and ex-bosses actually have these things.

it's like...hey who's the boss?

the mosquito...that's who!

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Message 32/38                 Date: 23-Aug-03  @  08:31 PM   -   RE: human animals

mcc>

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but in all serious...i do feed my ants old roy.
they don't care what flavor.

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Message 33/38                 Date: 23-Aug-03  @  10:29 PM   -   RE: human animals

d

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oh, and I suppose you made up the "copy of Hustler" part, too  

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Message 34/38                 Date: 23-Aug-03  @  11:12 PM   -   RE: human animals

pálposztai

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how about shared experience or the air (I always said the land of the beautiful girls has wonderful air)

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Message 35/38                 Date: 24-Aug-03  @  03:20 AM   -   RE: human animals

mcc>

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well....a couple of the ants started to take an interest in a pair of buttocks but some large warrior-queen came and ate them and so everybody else got busily back to work.

i don't think ants are that big on having fun.

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Message 36/38                 Date: 24-Aug-03  @  11:08 PM   -   RE: human animals

marianimal

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Bacteria communicate with one another too. And those ants, damn. They must be able to read the Grant's Kills Ants box cos they're just not going for the stuff. They ate all the baited borax and it possibly made them stronger.

Sure, humans have technology but we got that from the technoids who designed us. ;-)

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Message 37/38                 Date: 26-Aug-03  @  10:31 AM   -   RE: human animals

spot

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again....nerds

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Message 38/38                 Date: 26-Aug-03  @  12:27 PM   -   RE: human animals

cheddar

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and what if all this complexity is just some defence against boredom

i told the 'parrots in the savanah' story about Reading town centre, the paul smith collar logo'd t-shirt and the pringle sweater. Divide and rule

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