Original Message                 Date: 20-Jun-99  @  07:15 AM   -   Drug Addicts...

NOTEVEN

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Not too be a freak but has anyone noticed that alot of influential musicians,
were drug addicts. I'm not going to go on the long list of artists that were or
are drug addicts that made some good shit. But i just think its kinda funy.
Thats it.


out...

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Message 81/113                 Date: 17-Jul-99  @  05:23 PM   -   RE: Drug Addicts...

Pongoid

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Ahh....The Curse of the True Artiste....Actually, that is a pretty good reason to get fucked up. Now has anybody seen my rig around? Know I left it around here somewhere....


Ape

Influx, We'll have to see see about room on the bus or wherever for travel/sleeping purposes, but you're definately welcome at the parties, and after hearing your stuff, we can figure out a time for you to go on, but beware, kid. This ain't no fuckin' picnic. We live hard.

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Message 82/113                 Date: 18-Jul-99  @  02:24 AM   -   RE: Drug Addicts...

NOTEVEN

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What up Influx.
Here in the states(in case you arent from here) we have an ever incresing population of excessive teenage drug use at these "all night events". I tend to think that these kids posess "addictive personalities" because of their
lack of knowing better, and from being caught up in the "scene". I am a firm believer in the "addictive personality" theory, judging from the before and after effects of drug use on several of my closest friends.
Given the excessive teenage drug use issue, do you think they choose to be addicted, or they have addictive personalities?
I am not trying to start any shit, but i have seen many of my closest friends go through it all(including myself)
and i could see it coming a mile away.

out...

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Message 83/113                 Date: 18-Jul-99  @  04:25 AM   -   RE: Drug Addicts...

influx

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"and i could see it coming a mile away."

My point exactly...
I think kids are stupid sometimes (I was) but still make the choice...again..all this peer pressure shit...its all apologetic bullshit that takes responsibility away from the individual...

I am sorry if you got fucked up on drugs...same for your friends, but I firmly believe that the act of becoming addicted is a conscious one..no one shoves that needle in your arm or tooter up your nose...the reason folks get caught up in the shit is that they simply arent paying attention like I said earlier

now with the rave scene...most of these kids are just plain followers...5 years ago they were into "grunge" (or woulda been if they werent shitting their pants)..and before that? SO, their lemming like behavior leads them to do all this stupid shit like drinking that GHB crap or taking too much X. But no matter what they choose to do that shit...

I am definitely over-simplifying the whole deal..Ill be the first to admit it.

But it comes down to personal responsibility. ALL OF IT. Everything we do is by choice...and the thing is, most people just may not have been taught to be self-aware, or self-analytical...if we're taught to look at ourselves and our behavior from the outside we are far less likely to fuck up...and if we are self aware..cognizant of our internal workings and strong enough to act (or not) based on them, then we are far less likely to fall.

This ties into the initial topic, too...drugs put you a little more in touch with your inner workings..even speed and shit like that (at first..before you get all fucked up) allow you to go a little further inside than most of us are capable. So isnt it possible that part of the reason that a lot of musicians/artists/writers etc have been known to partake is that:

1)They, as Emersons Poets, see more than the rest of the numb-minded lemmings; FEEL more than them, and are hence forced to find some means to explore the complicated workings of themselves?

2)Since they see and feel more (arguably) perhaps they also find the need to medicate against the turmoil that this causes? One who lacks any extensive self-knowledge may tend to be "happier" or at least unaware of theyre unhappiness...but those with a third eye (even partial) in the form of any sort of expressive ability are in touch with all that marginal territory, and may be overwhelmed.


OK>>>enough of that shit! Man am I on a rambling trip lately or what? Sorry folks..but this is something I find totally fascinating and cant help but go on and on about...

HEY "NOTEVEN" feel free to "start shit" man...if your opinion differs from mine (which it obviously does) it certainly doesnt offend me (or matter even really..your you, Im me..and never the twain shall meet ). Please pardon my callous dismissal of you and your friends experiences with addiction 

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Message 84/113                 Date: 18-Jul-99  @  04:26 AM   -   RE: Drug Addicts...

influx

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"and i could see it coming a mile away."

My point exactly...
I think kids are stupid sometimes (I was) but still make the choice...again..all this peer pressure shit...its all apologetic bullshit that takes responsibility away from the individual...

I am sorry if you got fucked up on drugs...same for your friends, but I firmly believe that the act of becoming addicted is a conscious one..no one shoves that needle in your arm or tooter up your nose...the reason folks get caught up in the shit is that they simply arent paying attention like I said earlier

now with the rave scene...most of these kids are just plain followers...5 years ago they were into "grunge" (or woulda been if they werent shitting their pants)..and before that? SO, their lemming like behavior leads them to do all this stupid shit like drinking that GHB crap or taking too much X. But no matter what they choose to do that shit...

I am definitely over-simplifying the whole deal..Ill be the first to admit it.

But it comes down to personal responsibility. ALL OF IT. Everything we do is by choice...and the thing is, most people just may not have been taught to be self-aware, or self-analytical...if we're taught to look at ourselves and our behavior from the outside we are far less likely to fuck up...and if we are self aware..cognizant of our internal workings and strong enough to act (or not) based on them, then we are far less likely to fall.

This ties into the initial topic, too...drugs put you a little more in touch with your inner workings..even speed and shit like that (at first..before you get all fucked up) allow you to go a little further inside than most of us are capable. So isnt it possible that part of the reason that a lot of musicians/artists/writers etc have been known to partake is that:

1)They, as Emersons Poets, see more than the rest of the numb-minded lemmings; FEEL more than them, and are hence forced to find some means to explore the complicated workings of themselves?

2)Since they see and feel more (arguably) perhaps they also find the need to medicate against the turmoil that this causes? One who lacks any extensive self-knowledge may tend to be "happier" or at least unaware of theyre unhappiness...but those with a third eye (even partial) in the form of any sort of expressive ability are in touch with all that marginal territory, and may be overwhelmed.


OK>>>enough of that shit! Man am I on a rambling trip lately or what? Sorry folks..but this is something I find totally fascinating and cant help but go on and on about...

HEY "NOTEVEN" feel free to "start shit" man...if your opinion differs from mine (which it obviously does) it certainly doesnt offend me (or matter even really..your you, Im me..and never the twain shall meet ). Please pardon my callous dismissal of you and your friends experiences with addiction 

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Message 85/113                 Date: 18-Jul-99  @  08:02 AM   -   RE: Drug Addicts...

NOTEVEN

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"and i could see it coming a mile away"
The point i was making with this comment was the predictability of the personalities that were involved in these situations. I have done my fair share of drugs(and probably alot more than a "Fair"share) but, i was never addicted to anything. I have lost several friends and seen many lives changed by their experiences, but i am still challenged to determine whether they knew what they were doing. I cant for a second see my friends getting fucked up with the intent to die. So this is probably why i see it the way that i do, and i definately understand where you are coming from. But i dont think %95 of people in the drug culture understand what their actions can/will react in.
Even though given the invitation to "Start Shit" i dont feel the need 
Especially if you are one of the %5.


out...

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Message 86/113                 Date: 18-Jul-99  @  06:22 PM   -   RE: Drug Addicts...

influx

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Like I said, I have compassion for people..only because I care...
but even what you are saying now involves a lack of self-awareness...
if someone who was close to you got messed up on drugs, or died for that matter, you have my sympathy...

my whole point is simply that the situation could have been avoided for (IMO OF COURSE) the majority of these people had they been more introspective...but like I said, Im oversimplifying the whole thing

Peace

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Message 87/113                 Date: 19-Jul-99  @  02:25 PM   -   RE: Drug Addicts...

Rez

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Hey NOTEVEN, although I agree with influx, Mindspawn, Pongoid, 99Devils, Sedusa etc..., I do see your point of view. There are too many people who have "addictive personalities". BUT, I would have to say that this is probably due to the FACT that society does a damn good job of brainwashing most everyone into thinking that how everyone else perceives them, is all important. It tends to kill off those who see themselves in a different light and those of us who reject society's norms. What I mean by "different light" is those of us who focus on building themselves in the way they want to see themselves instead of working on how society sees them. Society hasn't prepared most people for drug experimentation. Society is more concerned with image or more to the point how everyone else sees you. As a result I think that MOST people wind up looking at themselves in a very shallow sense instead of focusing on what makes them feel good.

All of this rambling may seem to come across as "Society is to blame, not the individual". This is not the point I want to make. What I'm trying to say is that society IS a powerful influence. This I believe is the viewpoint that NOTEVEN is coming from.

Where I think everyone else is coming from is that on a base level, YOU have the choice and YOU make the choice. Quote influx here: "but I firmly believe that the act of becoming addicted is a conscious one... no one shoves that needle in your arm or tooter up your nose..." EXACTLY. FUCKING EXACTLY!! No one did it to you. It was a CHOICE THAT YOU MADE, NO ONE ELSE. Don't blame anyone but yourself. However, I do have sympathy for those who have been taken advantage of (ie: getting a seemingly innocent drink that has been laced with something without their knowledge) but that is a very small percentage of the overall drug use in the world. But in the MOST BASIC sense, YOU MAKE THE CHOICE. Most people just don't realize it for what it is (the choice that is, not the drug...) so they dive right in. Then it's time to either sink or swim...

Also, (since I've apparently borrowed that soapbox from influx and I've climbed aboard) not everyone uses drugs for recreational SOCIAL use. Opening the "third eye" has been a long quest for me and the more it opens, the more I realize that it is a very personal, very spiritual journey. This would negate the social side of my drug use more and more in the future. So I've been doing it in smaller and smaller groups with a probably culmination of self. Does this make me an addict? No. It isn't something that I can do everyday, nor even every month. This is a choice I make. However, all my life I've know I'm not like most people, but overall, THIS IS A CHOICE I MAKE.

What it comes down to is being responsible for your own actions. Most people find someone or something else to blame. Only you are responsible for your own actions. Step up and move on, get over it. If you cannot, *shrug* so sad.

I'll climb down now. Here influx, here's your soapbox back...

-Rez

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Message 88/113                 Date: 19-Jul-99  @  07:14 PM   -   RE: Drug Addicts...

skul

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regarding organics vs. synthetics: just because a "synthetic" compound isn't currently known to exist in nature doesn't mean that it hasn't, doesn't, or won't someday. what if somebody genetically engineers a plant that as part of it's biochemical processes produces MDMA?

furthermore the part about organics being tuned to receptor sites in the brain is bullshit. just because an organic compound binds to a receptor doesn't mean a synthetic won't do it, or won't do a better job of it for that matter. poison? there are as many organic poisons as synthetics. all drugs are poisonous given the correct dosage (careful with that tylenol, kids).

the government has no business legislating morality.

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Message 89/113                 Date: 19-Jul-99  @  08:14 PM   -   RE: Drug Addicts...

99devils

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I'm glad to see others feel the same way as I do... As Influx (well said, BTW) said, it all comes down to RESPONSABILITY!!! Addiction is a choice, and not paying attention isn't an excuse... People need to learn to accept responsability for the choices they've made. And society needs to learn to not scapegoat... Ever watch a story (like Dateline or 20/20) on TV about an addict? All they do (not the addict, the show) is him and haw about this factor or that factor that lead to the addiction... Never once mentioning that the addict could have chosen to take Kung Fu to get his negative energy. I also think most people who become addicts start for the wrong reasons... They start to numb pain (or the perception of pain), and of course everyone uses for a bit of escape sometimes... But that's different (IMHO) than people who start because they are looking for answers about themselves, or even people who just want a kick on a Friday night. If that particular person had had enough presence of mind to find out a bit about the options, perhaps they wouldn't be shooting speedballs...

I also VERY STRONGLY agree with the theory that government should not legislate morality. I'm pretty sure that Ben Franklin, George Washington et al for all you Americans out there felt the same way. I'm sure Ben Franklin would puke on the Oval Office carpet if he spent 10 minutes with today's law books...

I hope I haven't stolen anyone's soapbox!

-Craig

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Message 90/113                 Date: 19-Jul-99  @  09:51 PM   -   RE: Drug Addicts...

Ison

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I can imagine no worse situation than being imprisoned for somebody elses drug crazed legislation.
The real problem is not Drugs but Americas constitution which enables any crazy to own a gun.
If you watch any US film with drugs as part of the plot you will see that it is always the gun that actually kills anyone.
And because the USA is always in the right their own principles must be implimented worldwide.
So remove the Gun and you have no drugs problem.
I hope that this makes it plain that the drugs issue is just a front so that the gun issue is not resolved.

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