Original Message                 Date: 06-Nov-02  @  01:21 PM   -   why i am happy about the elections

formant

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this probably fits into the category K doesn't want posted here.

so fair warning... if you are offended by the topic of abortion quit reading. and take this point: i am not telling you what to believe, i am telling you what i believe so take it for what it is, an opinion.















ok i think that the republicans gaining control of the senate is the absolute most important thing to ever happen in the past 30 years.

this means that bush gets to appoint judges without having them blocked left and right. so just as clinton did before him, bush can put people into positions of power who are anti-abortion.

i think that abortion is the biggest travesty against human life in america since slavery.

just as the white slave owners of the blacks said that they were not human and thereby justified thier actions in pursuit of wealth i see the same thing happening today.

then it was 'these slaves are not humans therefore to gain wealth and happiness we will abuse them and do as we please with them... since they are not humans they have no rights'

today i see people saying the same thing:

'it doesn't matter that i have created a baby because it isn't a human being. i need to go to college/work/whatever so that i can be happy and prosperous. i will therefore do what i like with this nonhuman so that i can persue wealth and an easy life unhindered'

what exactly is the difference between the slave owners and the current people who choose to take human life in order to serve themselves?

i believe that *should* roe v wade get overturned in this country it will be a great stride forward for all humanity.

extremely inflammatory comment here: if bush gets abortion outlawed or at a minimum pushed back to a states right to choose america will be standing in defense of the helpless and needy.

i am aware many do not agree with me but that is fine. many people were against lincoln when he tried to abolish slavery, afterall they weren't humans.

you guys can slam me if you want (used to it) but this has to be the most important civil rights issue since the MLK days and it affects people of all colors and nationalities indiscriminately.

i hope that justice comes for the innocent lives that are lost every day in the name of greed and selfishness.

jamey

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Message 51/122                 Date: 07-Nov-02  @  02:29 PM   -   RE: why i am happy about the elections

cheddar

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Re. the stem cell debate - to be fair Bush is caught between the blue rinses being all 'sanctity of life' and the amazingly profitable biotech sector screaming not to be handcuffed when there are major profits out there.

Really, someone come back to me on Ford covertly sterilizing 3rd world women. WTF. Why. What benefit for the average Ford customer? No observable benefit so i figure it is gov sanctioned - in which case this is pure humbug, wind to fill the pastel shaded sails of butterfly minded voters who don't give a (automatically removed word here) about anything except their "complete this weeks sanctity theme here" -

Sorry Jamey, I am happy that you are happy and I am more happy that I don't live in the US, but then I am more unhappy than you can possibly conceive that your fat TV remote population has licensed a warmonger to tear and divide in the world where I live - but don't worry sweet concerned Jamey, Bush's daddy made sure that "Changing the US lifestyle is not on the table"

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Message 52/122                 Date: 07-Nov-02  @  02:52 PM   -   RE: why i am happy about the elections

99devils

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Jamey said:
so there is not a single person on here who thinks that a fetus (as you call them) has rights that superscede the mother aside from me?

and no one on here seems to care that abortion was legalized through a non-populace method even though you guys keep talking about mandates etc?


----------------

Make sure you don't suck your chair up your ass, but...

I agree on these points, believe it or not.

-Craig

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Message 53/122                 Date: 07-Nov-02  @  04:51 PM   -   RE: why i am happy about the elections

d

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while a fertilized egg is alive, it isn't a person. I
don't believe fetuses attain personhood until
they develop nervous systems and would be
viable outside the womb, and I'm not talking
about requiring extraordinary cutting-edge
medical science. they're potential people, not
people.

of course, let's not bring up the story of the
college girlfriend that dubya got pregnant and
arranged an abortion for in 1970, pre-Roe v.
Wade, when abortions were illegal. the rules
are different for the rich and powerful.

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Message 54/122                 Date: 07-Nov-02  @  05:10 PM   -   RE: why i am happy about the elections

hypocrite

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yes..you'd be amazed. seriousel y

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Message 55/122                 Date: 07-Nov-02  @  05:16 PM   -   RE: why i am happy about the elections

Zazza

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George w bush, champion of all that is moral and right arranged an ABORTION for his girlfriend???

Ford is sterilising women? Where, when?

o, what a sick world..

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Message 56/122                 Date: 07-Nov-02  @  05:41 PM   -   RE: why i am happy about the elections

errata

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Funny, being taken to task for not engaging in a "debate" that can have no result! He did name the forum incorrectly, not a big deal, but he was whinning about no one taking up the abortion conversation.

Having an open mind does not mean changing it regularly. I feel this is a discussion that CANNOT go any where. It is a moral argument! How can you argue about morality? I think for most people the abortion issue comes down to when is life viable...

Is the possibility of life equal to the definition? My answer is yes! But I also think that the possibility of anything is equal to it's definition... (open minded?) so I feel that the abortion issue is a grey water issue, those who see it in black and white cannot have a reasoned discussion on the subject, from my point of view!

e

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Message 57/122                 Date: 07-Nov-02  @  05:59 PM   -   RE: why i am happy about the elections

psylichon

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well you guys just don't understand the point of debate then. We're not changing anything by talking here, including other people's minds. But walking around day after day with only one idea of how things should be is bad for your damn health. Debate is the opportunity to, perhaps, learn something or at least see something from a point of view other than your own. It may not change your stance on an issue, but it may show you how to be more tolerant towards others who don't share your opinion (now that you can see where they're coming from)

you just have to give it a chance. and don't be so anti-christian, it's really rude and ignorant especially becuase they have so few numbers on here. respect.

psylichon

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Message 58/122                 Date: 07-Nov-02  @  06:17 PM   -   RE: why i am happy about the elections

psylichon

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a couple other things to consider:

who here believes in a soul? if you do, when and from where do you think that comes about?

personal responsibility: we love talking about it. doesn't it apply to the mother? taking responsibility for one's actions? if given an out for consequences, responsibility perhaps can never take hold.

personally, I call myself pro-choice because I don't think this kind of thing can be legislated much like any moral issue. i couldn't tell a woman, even my own wife, what she can and can't do to her body. i would much prefer people have open honest discussions about abortion much like we're doing here and reach the conclusion that it's wrong on their own. idealist epitomized, i know, but that's the only way it would work I think.

basically, i think it's easy to justify legal abortion with a number of economic, political, and social data. philosophically and viscerally however, I hope that most of us would disagree with taking an unborn life and wouldn't do it if we were in that position. agreed?

psylichon

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Message 59/122                 Date: 07-Nov-02  @  06:19 PM   -   RE: why i am happy about the elections

formant

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heh heh i love that song 'every sperm is sacred' and now it will be in my head for three days :-)

zazza i am not ignoring you... you can zap an email at me formant@bellsouth.net and i promise not to try and convert you but will answer your questions. the quick summary is i am not as consistant as catholics are on this topic but i would be thinking anything that limits abortions even if its something small like banning partial birth abortions is a step in the right direction.

yes i have kids, another one due soon. i have also lost a child at 4.5 months pregnant and grieved every bit as much as if i had lost one of my first kids. no i am not catholic but yes i am trying to outbreed you lot!!! :-)

everyone think about what kilo wrote, now imagine i had posted it instead of him. most here would have had a different response.

jamey

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Message 60/122                 Date: 07-Nov-02  @  06:22 PM     Edit: 07-Nov-02  |  06:23 PM   -   RE: why i am happy about the elections

Zazza

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formant: why can't you just answer questions here?

You are welcome to try and convert me though 

Always up for a giggle.  

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