Original Message                 Date: 28-Feb-02  @  09:02 PM   -   Why is digital less warm than....

Mindspawn

Posts: 659

Link?:  Link
File?:  No file

Hey folks, just some food for thought...

We all hear things like, digital isn't as warm as analog, and while I'm not here to argue that specifically, did you ever think about why that is? Outside of some of the basic physical properties, you'd think the two mediums wouldn't be that divergent.... and in some sense, maybe they're not. Now I'm gonna try a little heresy...

Maybe the reason mixes from analog sounds warmer, more musical, whatever, is: our techniques for recording, mixing, etc., are mostly built and modeled on analog experience. We've learned techniques for, say mic placement, that were establised in the analog realm... maybe we should be evaluating new ways of doing things....?

I mean think about one of the most basic differences between the two mediums, the level meter... Many of us that came from the analog world were sorely surprised to find out we couldn't push the LEDs "past the red" on a digital board... Now once I learned how to use digital LEDs, mt life, and my mixes, sounded better...

I'm not really trying to lay out new "rules" of digital recording/mixing, but just bouncing the idea off you all. If you have any experience with what I'm on about here, by all means share it. If you got a "warm sound" from all digital equipment, what was your methodology? Why do you think it worked that way? If you captured a digital take of a vocalist that just simply shimmers, did you do it the "traditional" (i.e., basically as it's always been done on analog equipment) way, or did you find a technique that is exclusive to digital?

Anyhoos, just some thoughts....

Peace All

[ back to forum ]                           [quote]

Message 41/157                 Date: 06-Mar-02  @  08:22 PM   -   RE: Why is digital less warm than....

sitar

Posts: 3872

Link?:  Link

File?:  No file

Just jumping in. I did get a plugin that was talked about in the tech forums that warm things up a lot. It has various tape settings and other things. Can't recall the name of it but I'll post it when I get home. Maybe not like analog. I'm still really getting started with it.

Alright, I'm out.

[ back to forum ]               [quote]

Message 42/157                 Date: 06-Mar-02  @  09:31 PM   -   RE: Why is digital less warm than....

damballah

Posts: 1675

Link?: Link

File?:  No file

the PSP one? vintage warmer?

[ back to forum ]               [quote]

Message 43/157                 Date: 06-Mar-02  @  10:52 PM   -   RE: Why is digital less warm than....

Brett B

Posts:

Link?:  No link

File?:  No file

yes Milan, in actuality, I am moving toward my own pro projest studio cabable of doing comercail 5.1 mixing and mastering for dvd-a and video, or digital television. I am going to the Conservatory of recording arts and sciece in Tempe and I want to have my own set up to do projects while I work my way into the business. I interviewed with a couple of good employers this week, and either way I should be making enough money to put together the system I described and still pay for my tution. I live at home and my bills are reasonable. So 90% of what I clear goes to the studio fund. Everything I mentioned would bring me in under $20k. Dealers have garanteed used street price on mixplus at $3500 by december. And mac prices are droping too.

so
control24&cable = 7000
PT mixplus = 3500
888 i/o = 1400
distressor = 2500
mac + 15krpmHD's= 3800
used ilok with various plugs, virus etc
= 0600
TC-powercore = 1200
total cost =20000

this is all subject to change and may even be cheaper in a year. If I have more I may get an apogee track two as well.
I hope to have everything by next summer so I will have some time to get up to speed. I have been using Protoolsfree. It's great way to learn the app for free.

and that is just my two American Express Traveler's Check cents.

[ back to forum ]               [quote]

Message 44/157                 Date: 07-Mar-02  @  02:51 AM   -   RE: Why is digital less warm than....

sitarsong

Posts: 3872

Link?: Link

File?:  No file

Yea Damballah

[ back to forum ]               [quote]

Message 45/157                 Date: 07-Mar-02  @  01:41 PM   -   RE: Why is digital less warm than....

milan

Posts: 5701

Link?: Link

File?:  No file

hmm. i´m sure i mentioned that PSP thing about 10 times in this thread   its lovely, innit? i just started using it recently, so i cant yet tell what is it that it does, but i know i love the sound.

as one producer told me "why mix when you have the plugins"!  )

[ back to forum ]               [quote]

Message 46/157                 Date: 07-Mar-02  @  04:09 PM   -   RE: Why is digital less warm than....

sitarsong

Posts: 3872

Link?: Link

File?:  No file

Sorry Milan. I jumped in at this point and didn't read everything. I'll leave the premises immediately.

[ back to forum ]               [quote]

Message 47/157                 Date: 07-Mar-02  @  10:17 PM   -   RE: Why is digital less warm than....

Brett B

Posts: 781

Link?: Link

File?:  No file

right! I am definatly guilty of that sometimes.
Anyway this PSP thing. Is it an enhacer?

[ back to forum ]               [quote]

Message 48/157                 Date: 08-Mar-02  @  02:23 PM   -   RE: Why is digital less warm than....

Pongoid

Posts: 2003

Link?: Link

File?:  No file

spawn, too right about the 'mayhem mix' concept, with it sounding so much more alive than the studio stuff. I find myself at a loss quite often when trying to recreate the dynamics of a live set for extracting bits and pieces to stick into tracks. Saturation can work wonders for a sound. Somebody told me once that a lot of analog gear actually doesn't reproduce certain frequencies well, and your ears tend to 'fill in the holes' in the sound with the ideal frequencies, thus creating an illusion that the listener finds more pleasing than 'digital perfection'. I don't know that this is necessarily true in any case, but it sounded like a good line at the time. People can go on for hours about the significance of bit-rate, and interpolation of smooth curves, as well as inaudible frequencies, uncaptured in the digital medium affecting the listener, but more and more I'm finding audiophiles tend to spend more time making science than art. Most of the studio wizards I've run into (not all, mind you) that can really 'get the sound' tend to turn a blind eye to talent, or rather the lack thereof. While standards in sound quality seem to be on the rise, the standards of talent and innovation seem to be going through the floor, especially in the commercial market. Most bands these days suck ass. No talent or innovation next groups twenty, even ten years ago. Same old rehash shit, who cares if it's got less than .0001% thd? The guys in band can't play for shit, and if it wasn't for pro-tools, backing tapes for the stage, and heavy promotion, most bands in the commercial market would be null and void. Not that I don't love good sound, cuz I do, but I make a concerted effort to not let it take priority over the creative/exploratory aspect of whatever project I'm involved in. Learn the rules, then learn how to break them. Dirt, noise, saturation, clips, glitches, pops, hums, aliasing, brittle sound, all that shit can be used to great effect if you take the time to learn how. Everything in context.


Ape

[ back to forum ]               [quote]

Message 49/157                 Date: 08-Mar-02  @  07:23 PM   -   RE: Why is digital less warm than....

bedwyr

Posts: 2890

Link?: Link

File?:  No file

vintage warmer link

[ back to forum ]               [quote]

Message 50/157                 Date: 08-Mar-02  @  08:45 PM   -   RE: Why is digital less warm than....

Brett B

Posts: 781

Link?: Link

File?:  No file

I know, I got a kick out of that Ben Folds track "Rocking the Suburbs" or somthing like that. and the line where he say "then some producer with computers fixes all my F..ing tracks..." making fun of the non-musicians. I am myself not well endowed with performance tallent, but I try anyway. That is why I have a computer, to fix all my f..ing tracks.

[ back to forum ]               [quote]