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Subject: what scale is this?


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Original Message                 Date: 05-Apr-00  @  11:46 PM   -   what scale is this?

kid dik

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I know nothing of scales or notes even. As much as I read, it passes over me every time. Help a bone head out, won't cha?



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Message 41/46                 Date: 17-Apr-00  @  04:03 AM   -   RE: what scale is this?

arska

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... i read a book by Colin Wilson where he told how he was asked to give classes or a course in "creative writing", and how he was then somewhat hesitating because he felt that "writing instruction" is like throwing fertilizers on garden full of weed (not hemp, but useless plants)... so the moral was, if u need instruction to create, u maybe should't be doing it in the first place.

Theory is no substitute for talent, but i think you can get ideas - not rules -from what you read and discuss. And i just happen to like to read about music, perverse or not. "Talking about music is like talkin about fucking". The music press writes more about sex and drugs than music. I think it's dead boring.

Some comments, correct me if i'm writing bollocks.
Traditionally the minor and major scales have this "leading note", a note half step below the scale root, or tonic note. But somehow i feel that this leading note should be avoided like plague, unless u wish to write traditional songs, or cheese (too broad generalization probably). Consider following bass lines:

1) C3() G2 () C3 G2 A2 B2 etc
2) C3 C3 G2 Bb etc

both have been heard millions of times, but which one is groovier? if you prefer the first one, you probably dug Rednex.

so, instead of standard major scale, if you flat the seventh you get "mixolydian mode". I personally prefer it over the standard scale. It ssounds nice for instance with that device mentioned by k, anchoring the root, - pedal point bass (?) ... so you keep playing for instance c in the bass, and play gm or gm7 over it etc

couple years ago apparently there was a craze taking old hit songs and trying to make them hits once again by sticking pedal point bass and 4/4 drums on them, usually it was crap. Tradionally built songs can have pedal point passages, but something else is too needed.

i hope i wasn't talking too much bollocks, because these things i've had pretty much figure out on my own, because curiously, there seem to be no musicological resources illuminating things that have boggled me...








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Message 42/46                 Date: 17-Apr-00  @  04:54 AM   -   RE: what scale is this?

kid dik

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thats what dt is for. what is pedal point again?

and btw, this thread has moved on to part 2, check it.



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Message 43/46                 Date: 17-Apr-00  @  06:33 AM   -   RE: what scale is this?

Harmony

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AAAAAHHHHHHHHHH! K, pls change what u last wrote, u copied it wrong!! (u dont av 2 keep this message-maybe it'd b less confusing if u change the error & got rid of this 1...) Do CUT/COPY/PAST this time 2 b shure....

This is how the major scale is constructed (AGAIN!):

TONE-TONE-SEMITONE-TONE-TONE-TONE-SEMITONE

Ok, maybe this is where u're going wrong: immagine u're starting on C, the 1'st step u take is to D:TONE....so picture it this way, (can u format it so the note name is under the "step"?)

C>D (TONE) D>E (TONE) E>F (SEMITONE) F>G (TONE) G>A (TONE) A>B (TOME) B>C (SEMITONE)

I think u were immagining the 1st "tone" 2b C instead of it bein the 1st step....



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Message 44/46                 Date: 17-Apr-00  @  06:55 AM   -   RE: what scale is this?

arska

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pedal point = bass keeps on playing the same note or line while the chords change



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Message 45/46                 Date: 17-Apr-00  @  09:00 AM   -   RE: what scale is this?

Harmony

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"... so the moral was, if u need instruction to create, u maybe should't be doing it in the first place."
Heh, he obviously didnt like sharing his secrets. The reason I think a bit of theory wont go amiss is that if we want 2 share our views on dance music compostiton, the musical side, that is, we all need at least some basic knouledge of how music works. True, u can only realy get in2 it with a lot of background knowledge but if we all put our heads together I'm sure we could come up with some valid arguments.

"i hope i wasn't talking too much bollocks, because these things i've had pretty much figure out on my own, because curiously, there seem to be no musicological resources illuminating things that have boggled me..."

The study of music in a contemporary framework is very new concept and is only touched on by certain establishments. Have u read Nicholas Cook's veiws? Very, very interestin (comin from me, & u all know what I can b like bout doin my work ;)... ) Well, 4 £5 u can get: "Music, a Very Short Introduction" Oxford Univercity Press. It's "short" and covers the main issue of what music is, what it has inevitably become....

Now, take the books on the rave culture, dance music in general....historical chronologies.... "Thatcherism...." yes, all of'em mention flippin' Thatcherism....interesting from a sociological perspective but absolutely no use 2 our followers, people making music. The exception being the "Rough Guide to....(cant remember if it was Drumm&Base or summink)" had a look at it-naf as fuck! I looked up Omni Trio as an example and the fella was descrivin the piano part "like some blissfull mouthfull of notes being struck in the style of a funeral march" or somesuch toss-when I read the words "Vagnerian like Leit Motifs" I put the book back on the shelf....So what I mean 2 say is there isnt a corossover between the sociological/MIDI/classical perspectives. Each approach on it's oun cant fully explain what's goin on in the dance genre-that's why I think there's so much confution goin round.

(by the way, it's raining so I'm afraid everythng's gona get the long winded explanation 2day...coz I'm not leavin the house)

As 4 the leading note bizznizz, I think u're definitely right 2 experiment with the modal system aswell. We're told in composion lecture 2 "take a field day from tonality", as in the lecturer is trying 2 emphasise 2 the "noteheads" that u dont have 2 use a standard Western harmonic system...on the other hand, they dont take 2 wormly 2 my happy hardcore..."save that sort of work 4 your studio modules".....tut tut...

Looking more closely at the 2 basslines u can c that they r both simple, catchy and extreemly cliche'd. In context, they r both sequences, as in the same pattern is then repeated at at different pitch. Take the baseball 1, if I remember correctly it raises by a semitone each time, this creates tention 4 it's never resolivng anywhere. U must remember that music written specificaly 4 pirposes such as the media (TV/sports jingles....) has a whole new dimention and purpose so u wouldnt tend 2 opt 4 preffering such music (I know what u mean though...). The second bassline is funckyer, fair enuf, but wouldnt u then play:

F3 F3 C3 Eb....?

Blues scales...12 bar blues....cliche/formula?

When I'm writing choons I try all sorts of different modes, not only the major/minor scales. It goes 4 a lot though, not just harmony...think of rythm and form-that's why lost of pop/rock music boares me, it;s because people simply arent experimenting with all the resources we have.

(Pedal note: bass note that is held below changing harmonies)



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Message 46/46                 Date: 17-Apr-00  @  09:04 AM   -   RE: what scale is this?

Harmony

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Heh, u must've posted whilst I was jibbering....

Well, better it's explained twice then not at all...



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