Original Message                 Date: 11-Oct-04  @  10:21 AM   -   the final stage

Dominic

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I'm having difficulty understanding something. If I am choosing to have my drum sample VST samples to be 32 bit on load and am bouncing down my soft synths to WAV's at 24 bit, then do I choose to record (on my CDR 2 track) at 16 bit or 24 bit and can people I send a 24 bit CDR to, play it on a standard system. Sorry if this is a crap, basic question.

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Message 31/60                 Date: 19-Oct-04  @  07:54 AM   -   RE: the final stage

psylichon

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hey, I still keep my PCM-M1 around just in case I want to sample a hi-fi fart in stereo sometime, and our studio keeps some dusty old Tascams around to roll in the occasional archive that comes in, but the subject at hand is mixdown medium. I do not consider DAT a viable option any more.

But it will live on. people cut to VHS still. hehe, i said "cut"

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Message 32/60                 Date: 19-Oct-04  @  04:03 PM   -   RE: the final stage

Dominic

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Yea, I wanna use a decent 24 bit cd recorder to:-

1. Master in 24 bit
2. Record through decent a/d converters
3. Use a medium that I can send out straight to DJ's
4. Use a bit of kit that can take the same sorts of levels as my DAT machine.

When I try and record straight into one of my delta 410's, I have to have the master fader right down by -25 db to not overload the PC. I've tried using the -10db and the +4 db inputs on my mixmaster but this makes no difference to the input levels. As previously said I get a mush better signal when I use the +4db XLR inputs on my mixmaster compared to the -10db inputs (which I believe to be for consumer gear like keyboards or dat machines) and know that my main metres levels are good cos the input knob on the DAT machine is in the same place it used to be when I used to record from a neve vr legend (with flying faders - heheheheh) in a pro studio. So I'm thinking that the alesis masterlink will be able to handle the "proper" signal from the mackie desk and I won't have to pull my master fader (that is post main sub inserts if anyone's wondering) all the way down to -25 db. I can't find an "input level" option in the audio menus of Logic and the control panels of my 410 deltas only deal with outputs, ie -10db consumer or full. I'm kinda thinking that my gain structure is cool cos of the same DAT machine being in the pro studio and the input knob is exactly in the same place for a decent level that peaks at 0db. Phew!

Am I missing something vital here fellas?

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Message 33/60                 Date: 19-Oct-04  @  07:45 PM   -   RE: the final stage

Influx

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cant tell without bein there in person, but something is clearly wrong as you shouldnt have to do that.

0dBfs is theoretically the same across the board. I think there are fluctuations, but not 25dB.

so...if you can sort it out, its gonna be more economical to use your PC. Where are you? Im thinkin england, in which case I cant help you.

I do, however, wonder if it has to do with what youre strapping across the main buss. maybe youre simply cranking that too high, and the outputs of your mackie are actually distorting? Im sure youre watching the meters on the mackie?

anyway...the masterlink is a damn fine piece of equipment. Dont know if the converters are anything but better than average. The only experience I have with one was using an Apogee PSX100 and then digital out from that, so...

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Message 34/60                 Date: 19-Oct-04  @  09:36 PM   -   RE: the final stage

milan

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Drop, you nutter...

look... a Neve VR will have output of about +26dbU or something, so no wonder you have to pull the fader to -25db while recording to a lowly Midiman Delta card. can that be it??

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Message 35/60                 Date: 20-Oct-04  @  12:26 AM   -   RE: the final stage

Influx

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dominic is "drop?"

and...whats a Neve got to do with it

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Message 36/60                 Date: 20-Oct-04  @  04:49 AM   -   RE: the final stage

psylichon

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I still don't fully understand your mastering chain or production style, but I think there is a misunderstanding here about CD burning and 24-bit.

A 24-bit CD burner (like the masterlink) burns data disks that can only be read by another masterlink or a computer. An audio CD is always 16bit/44.1khz. Also 24-bit recording does not indicate a higher input level capacity. This may be obvious, but from the way you were goin there I thought I'd make that clear.

I am of the opinion that if your productions originate and are mixed in a computer, they should be mastered there for highest fidelity. Your analog stage sounds a bit unnecessary to me.

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Message 37/60                 Date: 20-Oct-04  @  10:34 AM   -   RE: the final stage

Dominic

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No, Perhaps I haven't made myself clear. I don't mix inside the computer. I mix through 3 delrta 410 soundacrds running down a mackie 32:8:8.

The kick and bass

They each go through a compunder via the channel insert via jack to jack plummed into the +4db inputs.

The snare and the rest of the drums

They get eq'ed and sent to a sub group which in turn goes through a compunder at +4db inputs.

Soft synths

These get compressed with Logics native compressors and then all sent, via another sub group, to a compunder with +4db inputs.

The whole mix

The whole mix gets 3db of compression and eq'ed at 120hz, 5-7khz and 12khz around +3db on the eq section through a mixmaster using the main sub inserts and the +4db inputs.


Plus the makie manual says that there is +25 db output aswell so I'm confused. My question is why does my DAT machine accept a nice hot input level but my delta 410 doesn't. The mackie manual says that there is loads of headroom on this desk and to make sure that the main metres only flick into the yellow occasionally (which I am making sure of). What the hell am I doing wrong here?

Surely I can't be mixing with my channel faders all at -10. Everything is set at unity gain on my mackie including the channels, the gain pots are completely anti clockwise and the master fader is at 0db. Where am I going wrong here?

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Message 38/60                 Date: 20-Oct-04  @  07:45 PM   -   RE: the final stage

Influx

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so you do all the level adjusting in the PC then?

honestly, to me..it sounds like youre overcompressing shit, but that might not be the source of this problem...

I cant for the life of me figure out what exactly that problem is though. If youre doing the levels in the PC, and leaving the gain on the mixer with no boost, and the channels at unity...

jeez. confusing

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Message 39/60                 Date: 21-Oct-04  @  03:43 PM   -   RE: the final stage

Dominic

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Yer, not mixing in the PC. Pure mackie desk mixing Influx. Usually I can think and sort out the studio problems but this ones got me flumuxed.

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Message 40/60                 Date: 21-Oct-04  @  05:47 PM   -   RE: the final stage

k

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what happens using a test tone plumbed into the mixer rather than programme material ?

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