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Subject: iraqi oil


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Original Message                 Date: 10-Feb-03  @  06:39 PM   -   iraqi oil

formant

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came across this:

"At present, oil companies from France, Russia, and China have contracts to help develop Iraqi oil fields. Europe depends far more upon oil from Iraq than America (only a tiny fraction of U.S. oil comes from Iraq, about six percent). Oil from Iraq, indeed oil from the entire Middle East, ranks higher among European national interests than American. For some years, the United States has been moving to draw the preponderance of its oil from our own hemisphere, mostly from Canada, Mexico, and Venezuela, and to cut back steadily on its use of Middle Eastern oil, to the level now of 26 percent of its annual. Europe is far more dependent on Iraqi oil, and far more involved with the Iraqi oil industry. I believe the U.S. should form a consortium of nations currently under contract to develop Iraq's oil fields, prominently including Italy, France, Russia, and China."

from http://www.nationalreview.com/novak/novak021003.asp

and my reason for posting it is to ask, if oil were not a factor, what would people say it would be?

its easy to say the US "wants the oil" but if we only get 6% from iraq and only 25% from the mideast in general it seems europe has a much larger interest in iraqi oil than the usa...

i am not trying to sway anyone one way or the other, just curious as to what the "2nd" reason would be...

should this be in the "bush is a *****" thread? :-)

jamey



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Message 31/40                 Date: 14-Feb-03  @  11:49 PM   -   RE: iraqi oil

Pongoid

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Ya know, there's something more to this that I don't believe I've seen mentioned, and that is the CURRENCY. Please don't be so fuckin naive to think that Europe is just protesting the war effort out of altruism, and humanitarian desires. See one of the things that one realises traveling quite a bit is that nothing is ever as it seems, especially in the media. Europe could actually give a shit about humanitarianism, but they don't. Not one bit. It's just another card to play to get something else that they want. Did France ever protest Stalin's massacre of his own people? Never heard Germany say too much about the gassing of the Kurds, and as for Russia...HAH! let's just leave that one aside for the moment.

Something that needs to be addressed here is the European nations' desire for the change in the denomination of OIL CURRENCY. It has been and remains for the moment: DOLLARS PER BARREL OF SWEET CRUDE. This is the denomination by which all oil is sold. From there it goes through conversions, exchanges, etc., but that is where it starts. The Europeans want to change that. Britain doesn't because it's not part of the EEC's banking system, and still uses Pounds Sterling. Just a quick note so make sure that you don't get suckered into thinking that the US is currently the ONLY Satan on the planet. We are not alone in the least. It doesn't mitigate the actions of the US government at all, but it does serve to remind us that one must be wary of anybody who would call themself "Leader" anywhere. Altruism is not in the nature of leadership. Not in economic, not in religious, not in military, none. Think about it. It's all about self interest for these nations' leaders, no matter what the messages they tell the press. Think about this hard, when casting judgement on who is right and wrong.

I'm not saying Yay War!! at all. I think the idea is appalling in this case, I just don't want this nations coming out as heros in the end either, because the real heroes are the folks that are willing to sacrifice their very lives in trying to stop this war. If Germany, France, or Russia are so opposed, let their Presidents/Prime Ministers walk the streets of Baghdad and stand upon the front lines when the US and its accomplices start throwing death around. Let their oil ministers, Energy Commissioners, and Secrataries of their respective Treasuries, State and Press accompany them in this as the bullets fly and the bombs drop. Then they may be regarded as heroes. Until then, it's just fucking spin, so don't buy any of it as anything but. When they put their asses where their mouths are, you'll see very clearly how much of their words they mean not to eat. Armchair warrior scumbag rat-fuck pieces of mange-ridden dogshit, all of them.


Ape



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Message 32/40                 Date: 15-Feb-03  @  01:51 AM   -   RE: iraqi oil

milan

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hey, you know what... i went out and partied tonight... how about you guys? (ok, i can guess what ape did, but the rest of you?)



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Message 33/40                 Date: 15-Feb-03  @  02:12 AM   -   RE: iraqi oil

psylichon

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Bottle of champagne, some veal, and a fatty. And now we go out  

I feel ya Ape... all the way, very fair assessment.

psy



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Message 34/40                 Date: 15-Feb-03  @  02:21 AM   -   RE: iraqi oil

milan

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"Armchair warrior scumbag rat-fuck pieces of mange-ridden dogshit, all of them" indeed. i agree, no matter where they are from.



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Message 35/40                 Date: 15-Feb-03  @  10:41 AM   -   RE: iraqi oil

DT Regular

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That zazza bloke is on fry short of a happy meal



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Message 36/40                 Date: 15-Feb-03  @  12:39 PM   -   RE: iraqi oil

Zazza

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DT Regular : 'That zazza bloke is on fry short of a happy meal '

Let me see; wit, relevance, incisiveness,.. you must be an american!



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Message 37/40                 Date: 15-Feb-03  @  12:45 PM     Edit: 15-Feb-03  |  12:49 PM   -   RE: iraqi oil

Zazza

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Pongoid:

Yup, the French governments have their own agenda as does Germany and Russia, and the UK and the US and.. o rite.. everyone does..

The people on the streets in Europe tho are generally poeple who don't want their tax dollars spent on slaughtering innocent people...

We are supposed to be BETTER than Al Quaeda ... if we (UK/US) go into Iraq without UN mandate then we are worse, at least they're being honest when they say 'We want to kil the Great Satan'..

Hohum.. plus of course Osama and crew WANT the US/UK to go in, which they hope will cause the people of Egypt, Saudi Arabia etc to rise up, overthrow their own governments, throw out the US/UK troops and establish Islamic governments..

Way to go..



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Message 38/40                 Date: 16-Feb-03  @  02:25 PM   -   RE: iraqi oil

Conscience

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There is a very interesting cover story on Business Week this week addressing what the US can do to ease their need for oil of ANY sort.



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Message 39/40                 Date: 18-Feb-03  @  10:57 PM   -   RE: iraqi oil

Pongoid

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Zazza,
Who do you think trained Bin Laden and sent him on his happy way to do just what he's doing now?

Now please stop trying to paint the American sheeple as the villains, they're just doing what those in control program them to do. Waking up is not an easy thing to do for anybody, and let me tell you that the US has some amazing tools for keeping its people asleep.

It's a shame that folks anywhere are intent on killing the civilian population of another country, when it's usually just the political and economic leaders who have and create the differences. The more I travel, the less I see people in any one place having any sort of position of superiority, and more just folks trying to get by in the game of life, with the aforementioned exceptions.

Eat the RICH.


Ape



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Message 40/40                 Date: 20-Feb-03  @  09:45 PM     Edit: 20-Feb-03  |  09:46 PM   -   RE: iraqi oil

Zazza

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Pongoid...

The CIA paid the Pakistani secret service to fund anyone who would give the russians pain in afghanistan..

The Pakistanis decided they'd like a nice islamic afghanistan and so said they'd funnel the money and weapons into afghanistan ONLY if they got to choose who got the money and ONLY if the CIA agreed to stay OUT of afghanistan..

So the Pakistanis funded Osama etc,, and made the CIA look like fools..

Sort of poetic justice in there somewhere.. of particularly nasty sort.. the CIA tried to cause the Russians pain and the karma came right back at the WTC...

Same in Iraq... dance with the devil...

BTW, I've got nothing against the american people whatsoever, nor the iraqi people, nor the afghani people.. just the fuckwits who think that causing pain to anyone is going to put you in a better place..

Will they never learn?



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