Original Message                 Date: 01-Nov-02  @  06:54 PM   -   Human Rights Watch

GT

Posts:

Link?:  Link
File?:  No file

We're starting to get somewhere now...let justice be served on those knots in societies bowels.

[ back to forum ]                           [quote]

Message 31/79                 Date: 04-Nov-02  @  10:40 PM   -   RE: Human Rights Watch

xoxos

Posts: 6231

Link?: Link

File?:  No file

aah but this is a complex issue, isn't it?

[ back to forum ]               [quote]

Message 32/79                 Date: 04-Nov-02  @  10:40 PM     Edit: 04-Nov-02  |  10:42 PM   -   RE: Human Rights Watch

Zazza

Posts: 1502

Link?:  No link

File?:  No file

I see your point, but unfortunately it isn't in the past it is a fact of life in the present..

and the reason i know it is is because half my family is black and i have to deal with them being physically and verbally abused because of their skin color.. sad but true..

racism is endemic in society... just is.. sorry.. i see it with my own eyes on a daily basis.. and believe if it happened to you you wouldn't stand there and grin about it, you'd probably slug someone.. but then that makes you the violent one doesn't it? So you have to take the abuse and move on... with as much dignity as you can muster..

[ back to forum ]               [quote]

Message 33/79                 Date: 05-Nov-02  @  09:50 AM   -   RE: Human Rights Watch

cheddar

Posts: 673

Link?:  Link

File?:  No file

its a diversion - play and pay,

divide and rule

[ back to forum ]               [quote]

Message 34/79                 Date: 05-Nov-02  @  09:53 AM   -   RE: Human Rights Watch

loopy

Posts:

Link?:  No link

File?:  No file

Well, yes it is a very complex issue, but where does it stop? Throughout history ppl have persecuted, enslaved, killed, raped, pillaged eachother etc - its what ppl do. As is now known to be true it all began in Africa, humans originated in Africa. So in essence all the rednex, racists, vikings etc etc have their roots in Africa albeit a very long time ago. Similarly racism exists among black ppl directed at other black ppl, I know of Jamacians that hate Africans for example, also do ppl realise that the slave trade was started by blacks? Contraversial stuff, sure, but it is little documented, so how does that sit? I am mixed race and I do not categorise myself into a little pigeon hole, I'm a human and that is all. The longer we hold up banners stating what we are the longer it will take to reach a true civilised society. To my mind so called "PC" ppl are as bad as DJs who say "well I only play Tribal progressive intelligent two step junglist hardcore techno house ragga trance from Germany" i.e its a closed mind and a narrow view. It just serves to create more barriers not tear them down, why do ppl feel that everything has to have a clearcut label? BTW I am not trolling, I am expressing my views and if that is not welcome here then tell me and I will not come back.

[ back to forum ]               [quote]

Message 35/79                 Date: 05-Nov-02  @  09:57 AM   -   RE: Human Rights Watch

psylichon

Posts: 4573

Link?: Link

File?:  No file

hate to say it, but I kinda agree with ol' loopy here. When it comes down to it, this whole idea of you being one color and me being another is just this wonderful grand illusion we've built up anyway. Hell, I can't even tell you that you're you and I'm me. I really don't believe that, at the deepest roots of reality, those distinctions apply at all.

And history, well don't even get me started on time...

psylichon

[ back to forum ]               [quote]

Message 36/79                 Date: 05-Nov-02  @  10:01 AM   -   RE: Human Rights Watch

loopy

Posts:

Link?:  No link

File?:  No file

Oh, and back to the Irish thing, if you look at a map can you see where Ireland was connected to? Oh yeah Britan, funny that. See what I mean.

[ back to forum ]               [quote]

Message 37/79                 Date: 05-Nov-02  @  11:25 AM   -   RE: Human Rights Watch

Zazza

Posts: 1502

Link?:  No link

File?:  No file

loopy: yup, I agree with a lot of what you say... but as I said, the racism thing is here, now, so what should we do, shut up and pretend it's not happening?

And slavery isn't new, right, there was already a healthy slave trade going on in africa when the europeans started turning up and buying slaves from other africans. Although in africa slaves were part of society much as slaves in Greece, the roman empire etc.. were.. the europeans introduced new levels of degradation and brutality into the process..

To give an example... the portuguese worked out how much it cost to feed, keep and clothe a slave for a year and realised that it was cheaper to buy new ones... so they literally worked their slaves to death on a loincloth/minimum diet basis and bought new ones..

anyhow.. yes it's time people dropped the them and us crap on so many levels and playing fields..

I don't think this means pretending that predjudice and injustice doesnt exist tho... cos that just stores up trouble for ever..

ironically, slavery is still going on in africa, eastern europe and asia.. in fact some of our great western corporations have slaves working for them in third world factories..

it's a sad world..

[ back to forum ]               [quote]

Message 38/79                 Date: 05-Nov-02  @  11:55 AM   -   RE: Human Rights Watch

GT

Posts:

Link?:  No link

File?:  No file

It's not all gloom and doom really


Outlooks are like cups of water being half full or half empty

[ back to forum ]               [quote]

Message 39/79                 Date: 05-Nov-02  @  12:14 PM   -   RE: Human Rights Watch

pict

Posts: 1005

Link?:  No link

File?:  No file

Loopy if it was just a case of things happening back in the times of James the 6th/1st that would be one thing but the fact is the Brits and their adherents(the Ulster prods)have been behaving badly in Ireland up until modern times should people simply sweep away the fact that they have been terrorised by a very powerful foreign nation and forget about past atrocities how far back should those atrocities be before we forget about them?I've got family in South Armagh a nice rural spot with Brit Army watchtowers watching over the general population getting rid of all of them would go someway to creating dialogue as for Ireland at one time having been geologically joined to Britain so fucking what France is geologically joined to Germany should the French simply give up being French and become German the fact is Ireland has had a very different culture from Britain for the best part of 1500 years I've had members of my family killed and raped by the Brits ever heard of the Black and Tans and the B specials how about the Paras never heard of Bloody sunday?.In the same vein in America a few years back a couple of rednecks dragged a black guy behind their car until his head came off this shit is still happening now fucksake look at Rwanda and Yugoslavia. I'm sorry but I don't look at the world through multiculturally tinted spectacles and history isn't always something that happened a thousand years ago in a far away place.

[ back to forum ]               [quote]

Message 40/79                 Date: 05-Nov-02  @  01:44 PM   -   RE: Human Rights Watch

k

Posts:

Link?:  No link

File?:  No file

yeah loopy - i think no-one here deines that everyone has had a turn at being a bastard, white people were the first slaves, ask any Rasta... but I think what people are suggesting is that to MOVE FORWARD, we firast need to collectively AKNOWLEDGE the hugely negative aspect of humans behavious in this scenario... if some of the people live in denial of this it cant ever be eradicated.

I dont think your attitude helps, even tho you claim if eveyone had it like you it'd be better.

I mean it's a classic right... like with drug addicts or alchoholics or people with any type of 'problem'. They cant fix it until they admit that it is there in the first place, admitting there is a problem is the first step to fixing it surely??

[ back to forum ]               [quote]