Original Message                 Date: 11-Oct-04  @  10:21 AM   -   the final stage

Dominic

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I'm having difficulty understanding something. If I am choosing to have my drum sample VST samples to be 32 bit on load and am bouncing down my soft synths to WAV's at 24 bit, then do I choose to record (on my CDR 2 track) at 16 bit or 24 bit and can people I send a 24 bit CDR to, play it on a standard system. Sorry if this is a crap, basic question.

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Message 21/60                 Date: 14-Oct-04  @  08:08 PM   -   RE: the final stage

Influx

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yup. check the gain structure.

BUT...if you DO choose to get an outboard recorder, the masterlink is a damn fine option

record to disk at 24bit, then burn a red book CD (standard audio, should play anywhere) AND burn a 24bit master backup (a copy of which can be sent to master) AND still have a copy on your HD (the masterlink will take up to a 40g drive, but only utilizes 32). You can do playlists with it, etc. Its a solid unit no doubt

but...your statements bring up another question...if youre doing all this gnarly compression, including a multiband on the main buss...well...the mastering thing is gonna be a waste of money possibly, as odds are youve already squashed the shit so bad no one can do anything with it.

If youre gonna send something off to a real premaster engineer, ya otta lay off the main buss comp unless youre only hittin it just a little

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Message 22/60                 Date: 14-Oct-04  @  11:51 PM   -   RE: the final stage

SignalRunners - BLU

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' If youre gonna send something off to a real premaster engineer, ya otta lay off the main buss comp unless youre only hittin it just a little '


yeah dom, we were discussing this in another thread innit? Always good advice from ^^^ these guys, they know whats going on

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Message 23/60                 Date: 15-Oct-04  @  09:24 AM   -   RE: the final stage

Dominic

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A focusrite Mixmaster over the main inserts of a Mackie desk using a Y cable Jack to XLR plugged into the -10db inputs of the focusrite. My PC runs delta 410 soundcards.

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Message 24/60                 Date: 15-Oct-04  @  10:05 AM   -   RE: the final stage

psylichon

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Honestly, if you're getting into any kind of mix compression, you should probably run a "self-masetered" version for yourself, then run a mix without any buss FX on the master out... that way you cover your ass down the road when a mastering engineer complains your mix is too squashed. Can never have enough versions of a mix...

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Message 25/60                 Date: 15-Oct-04  @  11:50 AM   -   RE: the final stage

Dominic

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S'true. I've found that there are much better dynamics in my tracks if I just kiss the mix with 3db of compression cross th elo, mid and hi freq. It aslo makes it pump a bit which is a sound I like. Its hard to stay off the eq section on the mixmaster though as a 1.5 db increase in the 120hz, 5-7khz and 12k helps sooo much. I saw an engineer master a mix in the studio once through a blue focusrite and he eq'd 120hz, 7khz and 12khz so there the kinda guidlines I'm using.

Thanks for all the advise guys -its really helping.

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Message 26/60                 Date: 16-Oct-04  @  04:51 AM     Edit: 16-Oct-04  |  07:21 AM   -   RE: the final stage

psylichon

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"It aslo makes it pump a bit which is a sound I like."

Then you're using it for exactly the right reason in a mix context...as long as it's for a "sound." Just be wary that it doesn't sound better to you just because it's louder. A difference of much less than 1 dB can make something sound much better, no matter how much you think you're compensating with your head. Often times when i'm mastering, I'll stick something on that initially sounds great... bass is enhanced and everything is clearer. Then I run an analog-domain, level-matched A/B switch between the original and the mastering chain. When you match apparent levels (not peak) and compare apples to apples, you see thast compressors can often really diminish your low end, high end... pretty much any end if used improperly. But the end result of improper use is, yes, it may be louder, but it doesn't really sound as good. There are ways to get average level up without percievable dynamic distortion or changes in the frequency spectrum.

Not to harp on you, it's just something I've found out lately myself that's really helped my consistency in the studio. Nothing is more depressing than doing all this work getting a track's level up... and all along yer thinking it sounds great. Then you compare it to the unmastered version with a little turn of the volume knob in between, and you realize that you killed it. Always give a proper A/B. Find a way to make it easy.... i got it down to a keystroke in PT  

And that's basically the "holy grail" of mastering. Not fucking up what the mix engineer did. It's not easy, given the levels clients are expecting their masters to be at nowadays. At the end of the day, given good mixes (which i'm usually given from my boss... he's good), my job is simply to get them louder and to match them in level and spectrum. But more importantly my job is to fuck them up as little as possible.


But yeah, use that compressor if it truly makes it sound better.

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Message 27/60                 Date: 18-Oct-04  @  09:51 PM   -   RE: the final stage

Pongoid

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While the advice psyl has given is pretty well on, I would not say that DAT is dead at all. I'm not trying to wallow in the past, but it's important to remind ourselves the yesterday's technology is still functional today. While many high tech studios use at least 24/96 if not 32/192, especially for cinematic releases, even 8-bit and 12-bit have their uses. You use what you've got and do the best you can. Too many folks get hung up on the medium instead of the message. Get the best you can and use it the best you can. Record in the highest resolution possible, and if that's on a DAT then so fucking be it. A professional studio is either going to have the tools to handle your custom or rent them, if needs be. They don't like to encourage it, and some will be hard-asses, but at the end of the day, it's a job, and a pro studio is in business to make money performing its service for others. Money talks and bullshit walks.


Ape

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Message 28/60                 Date: 18-Oct-04  @  11:02 PM   -   RE: the final stage

Influx

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Pongoid...while thats true...theres no real reason to search out a DAT machine. It doesnt offer any unique sound really, and while SOME studios might have one, ALL have either a CD player or a computer. If they dont, theyre quite behind the times, and might be lacking in other areas as well, no?

a 24bit data CD is gonna be the most likely candidate for universal medium right now wouldnt you agree?

also...if one has a decently spec'd PC, then one can simply record 2track back into it. No need for an external recorder?

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Message 29/60                 Date: 19-Oct-04  @  05:09 AM   -   RE: the final stage

Pongoid

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Sure, I concur for the "modern American" studio they will be so equipped, but what about when somebody takes a live mix, right off the board? Or somebody that does a lot of field recordings and works exclusively on hardware uses what they have? There are a lot of folks out there still doing just that, and making perfectly legitimate, highly musical creations. Behind the times is a relative term, bro. Not everyone runs on the same clock, or is about the newest being necessarily the best. I know a lot of folks using some backwater shit for doing their things, but they are still making good stuff. Personally I'm going to start recording stuff on a 2" Studer, shortly. You gonna call that behind the times too? I'm sure we'll dump it to DVD at the end, if not a 1/4" half-track, but not everyone uses the same tools or has access to them. Not everyone lives in a high-tech metropolitan area, or records there. You use what you can get your hands on easiest or already have that still works. If that's only 16-bit, or even analog, so be it. A properly equipped studio should be prepared for all of it.

Ape

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Message 30/60                 Date: 19-Oct-04  @  07:15 AM   -   RE: the final stage

Influx

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youre creating a situation that this guy isnt in, tho 

the field recording thing is the most relative argument, for sure...there arent portable CD recorders yet, are there?

but there are portable DATS, portable HD recorders (quite expensive still)

anyway...I wasnt dismissing things that werent as technologically advanced as inferior. I dont think anyone was, actually!

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