Original Message                 Date: 12-Jan-04  @  04:17 PM   -   Why are there no single-hit CDs?

craig

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How come all I can ever find when I go hunting for sample CDs is acid loops?!? I can never find any decent single-hit drum CDs. All I want are a bunch of different kits, in Akai format, ready to go. That's it.

So, does anybody have any suggestions for real drums? I need rock kits, I'm totally covered on electronic drums. No loops, but I guess they'd be OK if they came on the CDs with the regular kits   I prefer Akai format, but also Emu will work, or I could deal with .wav and build my own program I guess, but I'd prefer Akai or Emu.

I'm also looking for a CD of pads and orchestral instruments. The key with the orchestral instruments is that I don't want to spend a ton of money on a big orchestra set, but I also don't want the samples to sound like doo doo either.

Any suggestions?!?

-Craig

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Message 21/39                 Date: 20-Jan-04  @  02:33 PM   -   RE: Why are there no single-hit CDs?

craig

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Man, you're talking about like .0001 seconds vs .00015 seconds. It's really not that noticable. And besides - does it sound BETTER? Personally, I don't care. And if you read about how I work, you'll realize that there's no way to eliminate MIDI in a system in which you actually play the instruments. You can't sit a drummer down in front of a software sampler.

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Message 22/39                 Date: 20-Jan-04  @  06:37 PM   -   RE: Why are there no single-hit CDs?

psylichon

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yeah dave, I think you're missing the point here. And you obviously didn't read my link or else you wouldn't still be citing latency times in milliseconds

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Message 23/39                 Date: 27-Jan-04  @  02:49 PM   -   RE: Why are there no single-hit CDs?

craig

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As a quick followup: The Drumkit from Hell rocks. But it's kind of a specific purpose tool. First off, I'd have to say it's the most realistic sampled drum kit I've ever used. It sounds incredible. But there are some caveats. First off, it's huge. For those of you using gigasampler or one of the computer based formats, this won't concern you. But if you're on a hardware machine, it's 250MB... So you'll need to fully expand your memory in an Akai S5/6000. Secondly, if you don't have the effects board, all you're really getting are the raw samples - you'll have to be a decent mixer to get the best out of the kit. These aren't ready-to-use prefab drums. This is obviously an advantage and a disadvantage. If you DO have the FX, then there are some really nice sounding "produced" drum kits included on the CD.

My major complaints are the fact that these kits basically eat your entire sampler. They use almost all the available memory and your entire effects board. This is cool in the studio, but what happens when I want to take those great drum sounds on the road? Well, I'm going to have a few hours of programming ahead of me so I can open up enough room for the rest of my set   It'd be great if they'd provide 128MB versions of their kits like Akai does with their sampled pianos. Maybe after I've programmed them I'll share so they can be included on the CD or provided as a free download.

As a studio tool though, these drums are awesome. I was able to create a patch on my DTX to control the kit on the sampler quite easily (thanks to a nifty little keymap diagram that was included in the CD sleeve). Having access to a kit this realistic has transformed the usually cheesy-sounding DTX into a really nice sounding kit. I'll be having a real drummer around at some point soon who can give a better impression on the feel but the sound is really great and the velocity switching is incredibly smooth and realistic.

At around $120 US, the CD is a bit pricey for what amounts to one drumkit. But, these are probably the best sounding rock drums you're going to get out of a sampler. Highly recommended if you need one high quality, versatile drum kit.

-Craig

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Message 24/39                 Date: 27-Jan-04  @  05:13 PM   -   RE: Why are there no single-hit CDs?

queasy00

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thanks for the followup

-j

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Message 25/39                 Date: 27-Jan-04  @  06:33 PM   -   RE: Why are there no single-hit CDs?

Stuff

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Yeah, thanks. Seriously.
Some threads just seem to fade away into oblivion though many unanswered questions remains (i've followed many old and archived DT-topics with this problem).
The information Craig shared about 'Drumkit from Hell' is very useful especially for a hardware user like me.   tho maybe i can forget to use it on my s3kXL (32 mb RAM) ;-)

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Message 26/39                 Date: 27-Jan-04  @  06:47 PM   -   RE: Why are there no single-hit CDs?

craig

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Well, yes. It's in S5/6000 format, so the multis programs and samples are all in the wrong format.

K could use this as a review. I can add some additional thoughts when I have the time.

One really cool thing I think Psy metioned before is that for each multi you get three versions of the samples - one close miked, one close miked gated, and one room mike. So you can mix your ambiences to suit your needs. Really great stuff for studio.

-Craig

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Message 27/39                 Date: 28-Jan-04  @  03:22 AM   -   RE: Why are there no single-hit CDs?

psylichon

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My biggest beef with the DFH is the lack of hihat dynamics. The hat needs at LEAST if not MORE attention to detail than the snare, imo.

I love how they map out the kit.... I actually play my drum parts, fills and all, pretty much live on the keys. Something I've picked up from waiting for downloads all my life, I guess, but I can hold my own on a keyboard kit. The left/right hand mappings are perfect for people like me... and the velocity on the snare really is top notch.

It's a shame they don't give you a smaller versions in the akai version... that's kinda silly. I mean, some of those single hits ring out for 10+ seconds... that's unnecessary.

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Message 28/39                 Date: 28-Jan-04  @  04:36 PM   -   RE: Why are there no single-hit CDs?

IntoxicatingSounds

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Midi transmission data rate is approximately 30000 bits/sec. A midi “note on” message consists of three bytes, (status, note value and velocity value) each byte needs 10 bits of data, so that’s 30 bits. Divide 30000 by 30 and you get 1000. That’s 1ms to transmit a note on message. So if your sequencer tries to transmit two simultaneous note on messages on the same midi port they will be at least 1ms apart when received by the sound source. To this will be added the delay between the synth receiving the message and triggering the sound. No musician could play with timing accuracy of 1ms and I don’t believe anyone could hear the delay between two different sounds played 1ms or even 10ms apart. But what you can hear in sample based instruments are phase differences. If you play a sample of a 500Hz sine wave and then trigger it again 1ms later you will hear nothing! The second note will be 180 degrees out of phase and will completely cancel out the first one. Increase the delay to 2ms and you will hear the sound loud and clear again. So very small timing differences can make a huge difference to the sound. I’ve noticed this effect on layered kick drums. You’ve got two kicks at the start of a bar and they sound fine together, then as you bring more sounds in you notice that the thump is getting weaker sometimes as the timing is pushed out by the additional midi data and certain frequencies start to cancel out. Conversely you may notice a loud peak that overloads your recorder input occasionally as certain frequencies come into phase and reinforce each other.

Of course all this is academic. The delays are so unpredictable that you cannot hope to work out how to fix it so it all comes down to “use your ears”. If you think it sounds wrong then fiddle with things until it sounds right. But I suppose it helps to know why it may sound wrong.

Deano

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Message 29/39                 Date: 28-Jan-04  @  04:42 PM   -   RE: Why are there no single-hit CDs?

IntoxicatingSounds

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And where audiomidi get the idea of nanosecond latency I don't know but it's just nonsense. Maybe they are refering to the time taken for the sequencer to instruct the midi port to transmit the data.

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Message 30/39                 Date: 28-Jan-04  @  05:52 PM   -   RE: Why are there no single-hit CDs?

craig

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Three bytes is 24 bits, not 30.

-Craig

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