Original Message                 Date: 06-Jul-00  @  02:29 AM   -   What the f&é

Pongoid

Posts: 2003

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What's with these DJs coming into the music theory forum, spouting blasphemy all of a sudden? People ask why musicians hate DJs, and I think I'm starting to figure out a solid answer. Starting to.

It's in part because they are getting a huge chunk of the musician's cake/respect without knowing shit about music, and without doing shit to get the musicians the respect the deserve. Instead, they are just keeping the kids ignorant, and feeding on them.

Another reason is that they treat music like a commodity, each track or sound, being just another asset for them to whip out during a set. I'm sure part of this is because of musicians making DJ tools as well. But there are a few of us out there trying to make pieces that stand on their own and are still danceable. A perfect example is the guy in the Vocal samples thread, wanting prepackaged lyrics for what is obviously going to be a prepackaged piece, rather than trying to find a musician to do the right job, and support that musician as an individual pro, and as a part of the musician community. Read the post, and you'll see so clearly what a little skiver this bastard is. The saddest part is that he doesn't even realize the lack of respect he has. Just sheer ignorance, like the drunk who staggers into church and pisses in the holy water by the door, then feels up the statue of Mary and asks her for a 'just a little kiss,...hun-urp-hunnyhhh' in his blinded state. How would the priest feel seeing that? Music is my religion, and I can tell you, it bothers me seeing the equivalent of that kind of ignorant behavior. Okay laugh, cuz at first it is funny, but it's not funny after a while, and after years it becomes obvious as a symptom of a very large problem of misunderstanding and coersion, combined with ignorance and apathy, thus not being very funny at all.

What can we do about this? What are YOU going to do about this, cuz you're either part of the solution or part of the problem.



Ape

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Message 21/24                 Date: 13-Jul-00  @  09:41 AM   -   RE: What the f&é

ggehiere

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I'm not that fond of this scam DJs are running either,
I was just making a point about some DJs possessing
some very useful skills that can benefit musicians who
tap into it. PPK, one of the top trance artists on
Mp3.com (trance haters please don't flame me over this
example) are made up of a producer and a DJ, and I
think the DJs input on arrangement and so forth is
evident (though I have no proof of his input).

And when I go to parties, I really love Live PAs, but
they seem like a bitch to set up, and things often go
wrong (I saw Art of Trance a few months ago, and they
went to McDonald's instead of the warehouse where the
party was, so they were 3 hours late, then the montiors
and most of the board blew so they put a DJ back on for
another 1 1/2 hours while they tried to fix it).

And lastly, I've heard alot of really shitty electronic
artisits that I don't like, and wouldn't want to listen
to for a 2-4hr. set. At least with DJs I can be pretty
sure that one of the next few tracks I'll actually
like. If it was all just live acts I think we'd see
more shows where everyone shows up to hear their
favourite then leaves, and it's back to the whole rock
n' roll think of super stars and other bullshit,
instead of beaing about the most import people at the
whole party - the audience.

This is just an opinion, so don't shoot me over it. I
don't like seeing all those jokers making my money
either. I feel like jumping over the decks and
throttling some of these guys yelling 'Give me back

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Message 22/24                 Date: 15-Jul-00  @  11:34 AM   -   RE: What the f&é

r-tek

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sheesh. I can both mix and produce, and I`ve spoken out against DJs thinking they`re at least the equal of producers before because they`re nowhere near. DJing is practice and knowing your records which forms a skill, producing is practice,practice,practice and talent which forms and artform. It also sucks that they seem to make such a decent living out of this while the peole that actually make the records havta spend 9-5 hod-carrying.































but hell, how much exposure are you all really gonna get without the DJ? Sure, if you play live thats one dancefloor a night maximum and most people, myself included dont wanna hear people playing live, it bores the shit out of me and there always seems to be far less people dancing than if someone was just spinning tunes. If you can get the DJs playing you tunes, then you`ve got thousands of people hearing your shit, thousands of people that may well go hunt the track down afterwards. Another thing is, generally speaking, people that haven`t/don`t mix have no fucking clue how to structure their records, no fucking idea. Which means ir aint gonna get played out cos the dynamics are all wrong for mixing with. I`m not having a go, but some of you seem real bitter right now, real bitter. You hate em? Sure, see how far you get without em. Thats a fact of life, I`m not bigging them up, but they`re necessary, they play at the parties, they spread the nessage on the pirates, they take your music abroad and open up whole new markets for your music. How far out of Detriot would techno have got without the DJs?






















































Sure, some parity is need, and the general public need to learn that they`re not the creative force behind the music that they think they are but is that their fault? They`re the frontline of the scenem they`re the ones that take it out of your studio so maybe you should recognise that.

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Message 23/24                 Date: 20-Jul-00  @  07:05 AM   -   RE: What the f&é

amiga303

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good discussion!

some mental stuff around...(special awards to: pongoid, pict and casparproject)
i think you shouldn't consider a dj as a musician, like somebody said above he's an entertainer. there is nothing bad about to be an entertainer, probably djs are pretty good compared with others (tv ot whatever).
i reckon it is not very fair the djs making all the money, while the creators of the stuff they are spinning haven't got a swimming pool where loads of bitches show up their brown skin.
it is allright though...
make up your mind: most of the people who have got some money you can try to get by selling them music or whatever ARE stupid. of course you are not really dumb if you buy a record like britney spears or the golden polka-hits, you are just a victim of our beloved (?) system ("democracy" (in fact ruled by mass medias and therefore by the money).
if you are a musician you are an artist i guess. an artist reflects his surroundings and stands "aside" the mass-people. it is fuckin' true. it might seem to you a bit intolerant to say all the people out there is so crap, and you may consider me as bloody arrogant to obviously define me as a "super-human", or a "reborn incarnarion of the REAL artist, exremely high brained and god-like or whatever...nope! i am just a mass-fucker as well i reckon but i am still a super-artist tough. i am the both. you are (perhaps) the both.
there are no classifications in reality, only grey-zones (it is my fuckin german, don't know if you understand what i mean).
back to the topic: when the first djs came up nobody thought they are musicians, yet they were doing something new, interesting, playing (sometimes) weird music. there was something going on. from the underground...
the djs became famous cause only a very few knew about the music. i believe there are still thousands of dumbheads out there who think it is all coming from the decks. they are not interested in where the music comes from, what the real source is, cause this way would lead into the underground where it is nasty and dirty. and dangerous! it doesn't fit the clean barbie-land, you know?
good artists don't give a shit on promoting their personality or selling themselves as a toy-like, money-making fuck. the dj represents the good values, like being well dressed or having lots of cool equipement. he is the toy the mass want to have on stage. the fact that many djs are quite far out and have a "politically uncorrect" lifestyle is a proof for my theory. cause there is the opposite movement, always...

dj-ing means business. your records are not so important as long the crowd recognizes something about (yeah! that is what all this dam mass-production music is about! if the hear a "nice" sample and a "nice" melody the song is OK unless it has been copied 45545454545 times. because their minds are shut down, no lateral thinking at all. they have a quite superficial meaning of what frequencies are music).

don't want to write more.

lfo@gmx.ch
roh-man

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Message 24/24                 Date: 20-Jul-00  @  10:27 AM   -   RE: What the f&é

Pongoid

Posts: 2003

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Good observations. I think a lot of it started with that mixed CD that Keoki put out, and Sony, at madonna's behest pushed the fuck out of. It all went way downhill from there. I'm sure it really started much earlier, but that's what made it really evident for me. Seeing that punk with the leopard spot hairdo, sitting there trying to look all spiritual and iconic, slpashed all over every music mag and billboard made me sick. Know the pic? Still, there's hope. The underground grows stronger. A new generation is emerging. You all are in for a treat in the near future. You will see. All these years I have been posting, I've also been on the inside, looking out, and helping the other freaks progress. Keep your eyes peeled. There is hope yet.  


Ape

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