Original Message                 Date: 12-Jan-04  @  04:17 PM   -   Why are there no single-hit CDs?

craig

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How come all I can ever find when I go hunting for sample CDs is acid loops?!? I can never find any decent single-hit drum CDs. All I want are a bunch of different kits, in Akai format, ready to go. That's it.

So, does anybody have any suggestions for real drums? I need rock kits, I'm totally covered on electronic drums. No loops, but I guess they'd be OK if they came on the CDs with the regular kits   I prefer Akai format, but also Emu will work, or I could deal with .wav and build my own program I guess, but I'd prefer Akai or Emu.

I'm also looking for a CD of pads and orchestral instruments. The key with the orchestral instruments is that I don't want to spend a ton of money on a big orchestra set, but I also don't want the samples to sound like doo doo either.

Any suggestions?!?

-Craig

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Message 11/39                 Date: 13-Jan-04  @  11:32 PM   -   RE: Why are there no single-hit CDs?

Broken Silence

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EDIROL Orchestral is great- i use it in every one of my tracks for strings, pianos, violins etcetc..I love it

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Message 12/39                 Date: 14-Jan-04  @  02:05 PM   -   RE: Why are there no single-hit CDs?

craig

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I looked at the Clearmountain drums. The Akai versions seem to be going out of print or something, 'cause it's difficult to find in Akai format. I also noticed that while it goes for like 80 euros or so, it's like $150 over here

There was another called "mega giga drums" or something like that. The demos sounded OK, maybe I'll pick it up later on down the line. This Cd plus what I've already got should get me through my current stuff.

-Craig

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Message 13/39                 Date: 15-Jan-04  @  05:34 PM   -   RE: Why are there no single-hit CDs?

digital dave

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Why do you want to stick with an Akai? That means midi leads, which means 15-20ms midi delay, which means ya drums ain't tight. Go for a soft sampler and have access to faster programming, much better fx than in the inbuilt Akai FX, sample accurate timing and a big screen to see what ya doing.

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Message 14/39                 Date: 15-Jan-04  @  06:44 PM   -   RE: Why are there no single-hit CDs?

craig

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Listen, I don't believe all that crap about the drums not being tight. I've been programming over 5 years on hardware and I don't have the kind of slop people complain about. And I play, so there's always going to be MIDI connecting the controller to the PC. Even drums, I use an electronic kit and I'll be using a live drummer on triggers for this project.

And do not trust computers on stage. Probably never will.

-Craig

PS - I dare you to measure 15-20ms timing slop in my MIDI rig.

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Message 15/39                 Date: 15-Jan-04  @  09:37 PM   -   RE: Why are there no single-hit CDs?

Yonce N Mild

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Ha Ha
Craig, from your total distrust of computers I'm guessing you and me are in a similar line of work. I remember you mentioning you had a computer science degree but I could be wrong. So what do ya do Net Admin ? Tech support ?


I'm in tech support myself, my official title is Corporate IT Support specialist, but that makes sound alot cooler than it really is

I do all the tech support for the corporate headquarters of a medium sized company (600 employees worldwide about 150 here) So I spend my work days fixing computers.

I agree I would NEVER trust a computer live on stage at least not with a setup I could afford. besides the risk of the computer crashing on you there are about a hundred other things that could go wrong (has your computer ever locked up on you in the middle of playing a cd or a track from your DAW remember that horrible noise imagine that pumping through a club system) and you risk your laptop getting stolen/stepped on or filled with beer

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Message 16/39                 Date: 15-Jan-04  @  10:11 PM   -   RE: Why are there no single-hit CDs?

Stuff

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I don't believe all that midi timing delay crap. If it was that horrible every dance track made before year 2000 (or something) would flam. And as far as i remember the drums were f*cking tight even before then.
Maybe if you daisy-chain all the equipment you'll notice a (huuuuge) delay.

Btw, if everything in a track is midi (h/w) - every sound in the track will have the same timing issue, 15-20 ms or whatever digital dave said. So whats the deal if the instruments are synced to each other..

And a sampler is rock solid for live performance. I read someone found unbelievable things (like beer, cigarettes etc.) inside his Akai's when being on tour. And the machines were working as usual.

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Message 17/39                 Date: 16-Jan-04  @  07:28 AM   -   RE: Why are there no single-hit CDs?

psylichon

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15-20 ms, eh? oooookaaaaaaay, bucko, whatever you say...

I know that I cannot play live MIDI drums with more than 10-12 ms delay, which I have only experienced through software (on an older card with bad drivers). I know for a fact that my hardware timing has always been better than even my best software performance (which is 1.5 ms)

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Message 18/39                 Date: 16-Jan-04  @  07:34 AM     Edit: 16-Jan-04  |  07:35 AM   -   RE: Why are there no single-hit CDs?

psylichon

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Ok, I've heard this enough times to force me into a quick Google search. First result:

http://www.audiomidi.com/classroom/midi/midi_latency.cfm

"There has been much confusion regarding MIDI latency and it all can be traced back to a misprint about MIDI timing in an old article of Keyboard Magazine.

With all electronic instruments there is a measurable degree of latency, a delay between when you tell the instrument to do something and when it actually does it. That measurement, however, is incredibly small. While Audio latency is measured in term of Milliseconds, MIDI latency is usually measured in terms of nanoseconds.

Now that's not to say that there can not be any delay in using a MIDI setup. Some synthesizers are inherently slower than others in producing sound. Some synthesizers patches are designed with a slow attack, as well."

15-20 ns is more like it.

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Message 19/39                 Date: 16-Jan-04  @  02:09 PM     Edit: 16-Jan-04  |  02:16 PM   -   RE: Why are there no single-hit CDs?

craig

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Thanks for the backup guys. I think people who experience lots of MIDI timing difficulties are probably chaining a lot of MIDI gear off of a little USB MIDI interface. My rig uses a MOTU MIDI Timepiece for the synths and every device has its own dedicated port. I don't have any timing problems at all.

Yonce - I do hold a computer science degree. I am a Senior Programmer/Analyst for University Business Services at the State Univeristy of New York at Buffalo. That was a mouthful, wasn't it? I develop applications for human resources, financials, and procurement. Cold Fusion against Oracle with a little Flash, and legacy apps in Microsoft Visual Foxpro. The university has about 28,000 faculty, staff, and students. Directly I probably work with about 300 people or so, but I do produce applications for the university community at large. All 28,000 of 'em.

All the information you could ever want about my job

My background definately influences my decisions on whether or not to trust PCs and what to trust them with. On one hand, we know that computers go down (usually with catastrophic consequences and at the worst time). On the other hand they're sometimes the best tool for the job - ie recording and mixing.

The other way to look at it is that when you're builiding a large-scale system, you use dedicated pieces designed for specific functions to get the maximum performance from your system.

Either way, I still think PCs lose to hardware, at least in terms stability and latency and user interface. Software is more flexible and sounds just as good.

-Craig

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Message 20/39                 Date: 19-Jan-04  @  12:39 PM   -   RE: Why are there no single-hit CDs?

digital dave

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You lot are mad! You seriously telling me that music made in 1995, on a Akai sampler sounds as tight as music made in 2002 on a soft sampler. Crazy and not true. You take jungle as an example, now its not my bag but if you look at a tune like Origin Unknown - valley of the shadows and compare that drum sound to an Andy C tune today, the drums sound sooooo much tighter. Its exactly the same with tech house. Listen to a Bushwacka! record of his label plank from 1998 and compare that to the sound of his tunes today and the drums are much, much tighter. You lot telling me that every different manufactorers synths and samples plugged in through a midi interface are ALL going to have exactly the same midi delay? No their not, your JV2080 might have a 15ms delay, your Akai sampler mayne a 20ms, your nore lead might have a 12ms, etc. This is going to make a difference. Alright, punters on the dancefloor aren't going to stop dancing, stroke the chin and go "nah, his bass is coming 10ms later than the drums" but MY POINT is that I can notice a difference, there is a difference and soft sampler drums sound tighter than any hardware samplers drums (apart from a MPC 3000 used soley on its own).

Just my opinion.

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