Original Message                 Date: 23-Feb-01  @  07:17 PM   -   EQ'ing bass drum and basslines

dance, rummy!

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once again, for the benefit of all, I'd like to hear some thoughts about Eq'ing the bass drum with sub-bass.....
this is geared towards songs with 2 basslines that are working together...



I've heard before that the part of the BD that hits you in the chest is between 100 and 200Hz. Even-handed guy that I am, I usually put a medium-size notch on the sub-bassline at 150Hz, with a cut of 3-5dB, to make room for the bass drum



Also, since I want the sub to come through, I usually roll-off any sub freq's from the bass drum starting about 100Hz using a HPF.



I remain unsatisfied with this approach. It seems too simple, and most times it doesn't get the definition I would like. There has to be something more (better) I can do to increase the definition on the bottom end...




I am hesitant to boost the mids on anything because I'm trying to use another bassline sound above the kick, with little or no sub in it.... d&b heads know what I mean -- that growling HPF'd bassline that keeps whacking your ear while the lower line moves the air....



any comments are welcome.....

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Message 11/26                 Date: 02-Mar-01  @  07:48 AM   -   RE: EQ'ing bass drum and basslines

teemu

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You could get a set of headphones... speakers that go down to 20hz are expensive (and need to be very large). My 150$ headphones go down to 14hz and you can hear the really low basses rather well. I sometimes work with _really_ low basses that the monitors just can't re-produce. The meters on the mixer are pumping like crazy but you can't hear anything. That's when the phones come in.

Usually, the really low basses get cut in the mastering, though. A hi-pass filter on 40-60 hz with a low Q cuts away most of the unnecessary low-frequency information without introducing any artifacts.

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Message 12/26                 Date: 03-Mar-01  @  02:29 AM   -   RE: EQ'ing bass drum and basslines

influx

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uh...we cant HEAR below what, 20hz? I think your headphones are lying.

I dont know of any systems that can reproduce 14hz anyway..can they?

Id think that anything below 30 is just eating up headroom. am I wrong?

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Message 13/26                 Date: 03-Mar-01  @  11:32 AM   -   RE: EQ'ing bass drum and basslines

johnny

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you can't 'hear' that far down (i.e. discerning pitch), but you can definitely feel it.

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Message 14/26                 Date: 03-Mar-01  @  07:22 PM   -   RE: EQ'ing bass drum and basslines

influx

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right...but can you FEEL it from headphones?

and is there any point in trying to get that much bass in your sounds unless youre going to be played on the most massive and powerful systems?

all this talk about 14hz...just seems so funny to me

30hz would make you puke at huge levels anyway, no?

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Message 15/26                 Date: 04-Mar-01  @  02:00 AM   -   RE: EQ'ing bass drum and basslines

nobody

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i think 7hz at 150db will make you shit yourself

or is that a complete lie

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Message 16/26                 Date: 04-Mar-01  @  04:27 AM   -   RE: EQ'ing bass drum and basslines

influx

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damn that low?

brown noise is a reality

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Message 17/26                 Date: 04-Mar-01  @  06:58 AM   -   RE: EQ'ing bass drum and basslines

damballah

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oh, systems can produce 1 hz if you want them to, but it's just cone motion at that point. usually in speaker specs there's an acceptable level of flatness stated, like 60-16k +/- 3 dB (to pull some numbers out o' me ass). that's not saying nothing under 60 hz isn't coming out of the box. speaker's responses get real unlinear at lower frequencies. and you're not going to impress anybody if you state your response is 20-20k +/- 12 dB. in fact, they'll point at you and snicker.

for reference, low E on a bass guitar is around 42 hz. most people hear the note in the overtones, though.

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Message 18/26                 Date: 04-Mar-01  @  05:02 PM   -   RE: EQ'ing bass drum and basslines

influx

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low E is 42 hertz?

doesnt seem that low. hmmm. damballah with the sound knowledge

guess that happens when you get old

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Message 19/26                 Date: 04-Mar-01  @  05:21 PM   -   RE: EQ'ing bass drum and basslines

damballah

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I don't remember exactly, 42 point something. that's the fundamental tone. it doesn't produce a pure sine wave, though. there's all kinds of harmonics, like 84, 168, etc, plus some odd little ones. try rolling off the treble and mids, then stand in front of a 2x15 cab and play that low E. mmmmmmm.

one of the things that happens when you deal with really low tones, is you need to put in some of those upper-harmonics so that people with merely mortal speakers can hear what's going on. I like running subby stuff out into a speaker (and I've got a few crap ones, crap ones are good for this) and miking it. that gives you some speaker compression and new harmonics. roll the low end off the speaker channel, bring it up so you can hear the bassline, then bring in the sub stuff just enough so there's some feel going on.

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Message 20/26                 Date: 04-Mar-01  @  07:31 PM   -   RE: EQ'ing bass drum and basslines

teemu

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Well, it says 14hz in the manual. Probably not a lie since they aren't exacly some 5$ Wal-Mart phones. They do go _really_ low though. Sometimes I can't hear anything on the monitors (that go down to 57hz at +-3dB, don't know how low frequencies they really can reproduce) but I can hear the bass on the phones. Of course it's not the same as actually hearing and feeling the vibrations in the air but it's good to have something that can actually reproduce the sounds that come from the synthesizers. The ultra-low frequencies will of course be cut in the mastering but still, it's good to know that they are there, eating away the headroom.

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