Original Message                 Date: 06-Jul-00  @  02:29 AM   -   What the f&é

Pongoid

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What's with these DJs coming into the music theory forum, spouting blasphemy all of a sudden? People ask why musicians hate DJs, and I think I'm starting to figure out a solid answer. Starting to.

It's in part because they are getting a huge chunk of the musician's cake/respect without knowing shit about music, and without doing shit to get the musicians the respect the deserve. Instead, they are just keeping the kids ignorant, and feeding on them.

Another reason is that they treat music like a commodity, each track or sound, being just another asset for them to whip out during a set. I'm sure part of this is because of musicians making DJ tools as well. But there are a few of us out there trying to make pieces that stand on their own and are still danceable. A perfect example is the guy in the Vocal samples thread, wanting prepackaged lyrics for what is obviously going to be a prepackaged piece, rather than trying to find a musician to do the right job, and support that musician as an individual pro, and as a part of the musician community. Read the post, and you'll see so clearly what a little skiver this bastard is. The saddest part is that he doesn't even realize the lack of respect he has. Just sheer ignorance, like the drunk who staggers into church and pisses in the holy water by the door, then feels up the statue of Mary and asks her for a 'just a little kiss,...hun-urp-hunnyhhh' in his blinded state. How would the priest feel seeing that? Music is my religion, and I can tell you, it bothers me seeing the equivalent of that kind of ignorant behavior. Okay laugh, cuz at first it is funny, but it's not funny after a while, and after years it becomes obvious as a symptom of a very large problem of misunderstanding and coersion, combined with ignorance and apathy, thus not being very funny at all.

What can we do about this? What are YOU going to do about this, cuz you're either part of the solution or part of the problem.



Ape

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Message 11/24                 Date: 07-Jul-00  @  01:23 PM   -   RE: What the f&é

pict

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I should add that I come from a generation that considered it anathema to scratch an LP.I would immediately tape my albums to avoid scratches and would be pretty anal about lending them out,there was nothing better than listening to a scratch free album so when all this scratching stuff came out I just found it to be irritating(as well as the waste of a good record)as did I'm sure many others.

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Message 12/24                 Date: 07-Jul-00  @  03:02 PM   -   RE: What the f&é

pongoid

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Okay, Pict. I feel you. Q-bert is Peter Erskine, and will never be, but he's as close as you get with decks (which really isn't very close). Okay, DJ's have been measured and in the balance found wanting.



Ape

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Message 13/24                 Date: 07-Jul-00  @  03:08 PM   -   RE: What the f&é

influx

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pongoid..that first post..man..

well said.

I dont have beef necessarily because Im not in the loop..but the way you put that..theres NO arguing against it.

especially the part about treating music as a commodity. the DJs I know..they want to get the new hot recors FIRST..so they can play this COOL NEW track..

and I say..what about the beautiful old ones? what about the ones that arent COOL (someone in a record pool didnt say "THIS IS COOL BUY IT"?)

right on, man. youve made me more aware

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Message 14/24                 Date: 07-Jul-00  @  06:25 PM   -   RE: What the f&é

Marc

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I was thinking about this DJ/Musician thing today and came up with a good analogy (IMHO) :

Last time you went to the cinema did you applaud the projectionist ??


Marc.

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Message 15/24                 Date: 07-Jul-00  @  10:36 PM   -   RE: What the f&é

deltasleep

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this is coming across a problem i have faced many many many times, and one that has taken me years of my long 17 year life. The bottom line is this:

music does not mean the same thing to the DJ's and the public as it does to us.

music is not the center of everyone's lives, nor can we expect it to be. This is like being a dairy farmer, and ranting about people eating margarine thats bad for them instead of butter. That can be the center of a person's life. But the people eating it don't care, they're just trotting along through their lives, and its just 15 min at breakfast, at most, for them. You know? My father(a breadline jazz guitarist) has ranted about this as long as can remember, and he still doesn't get it. Its not something you can sweat, your time can be better spent.

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Message 16/24                 Date: 08-Jul-00  @  10:43 AM   -   RE: What the f&é

sitar

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Yea Pongoid. That day we met in Thompkins Square Park I had myself a good time, but the music was enjoyable because of what was happening around it. You pointed that out that day. I wouldn't have gone out and bought a cd of anything I heard on that day.

I just have to keep workin at stuff until it starts to really come together for me. That's where I'm at right now. And I always slept on the floor until I got married. I hate making a bed every day. Real musicians don't sleep in beds....until they get married.

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Message 17/24                 Date: 08-Jul-00  @  03:18 PM   -   RE: What the f&é

Pongoid

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Delta,
Okay, music certainly does not mean the same thing to us, as we live this stuff, but it does make some sort of difference as it people invest billions in it. It has power, and we are simply too stupid, and not associated with the right people to take the energies we harness, and steer them in the right direction. What I think it really takes is a couple of smart hedz who really know business, like managers but with something other than just money in mind to put things back on track.


I have no qualms with prospering from good music, however I believe it can do so much more. I've fed a thousand people with the money I raised in a benefit on more than one occasion, and I see a big lack of this type of thing from others. When's the last time any of you got involved with a benefit? Good shit.

This shit ain't just butter for your bread, this is power; the ability to alter moods, sway belief, start or stop fights, raise or quell awareness. You're just forgetting or ignoring this. I can put a smile on peoples' faces in seconds, make them forget their fatigue and frustration with life just by communicating an inexplicable feeling to them. I'm not alone in this. People just don't realize how powerful this meduim is. Picture life without music, and tell me it means little to people. Your pop has good reason to be pissed off. I am too.

So, I guess we gotta start scouting for folks who don't make music, but understand its importance, and have the right philosophies in life, and are wiling to help. Where to start?
Ape

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Message 18/24                 Date: 11-Jul-00  @  08:17 AM   -   RE: What the f&é

ggehiere

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I agree with pongoid... music is a bigger part of many
people's lives that some may think. Music is the
catalyst for events and moods, and the trigger for so
many memories.

I would like to mention that DJs (good DJs) make
excellent arrangers. When I was in grunge rock bands 12
years ago, the drummer always worked out the
arrangements. I always spot drummers with arrangement
credits on traditional music CD sleeves, and I think
it's because the drummer is listening to everything,
not just himself. And I think that's why so many DJs
can't write to save their souls, but they sure are good
at arranging or 'producing' (in the strictest sense)
other people's music. They're the one's really
listening, really getting into the music, just like
drummers.

My friends who are DJs have given me lots of good
advice - 'you should make this 2 bars instead of 4, add
sub-bass to the bass drum right here, add a quiet snare
hit miming the claps, move this part ahead 8 bars, etc.
etc.' But most can't write at all..

My favourite quote of the week - 'A critic is someone
who knows the way, but doesn't know how

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Message 19/24                 Date: 11-Jul-00  @  11:29 PM   -   RE: What the f&é

siva

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Thats why I hate most DJ's.

Justin

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Message 20/24                 Date: 12-Jul-00  @  04:29 PM   -   RE: What the f&é

casparproject

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fuck'em all. there's nothin we can do about it. i hate 'em. lets just hope the public wakes up eventually and realizes that DJ's don't do shit. any of you seen that new Sting video (that guy actually had a lot of my respect until I saw this piece of cinematic fecal matter) with all the electronic crap in it, and not a single synth in the video, just a fuckin DJ pretending to actually be doing somethin. FUCK 'EM ALL!!!!!

Peter

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