Original Message                 Date: 03-Jul-00  @  07:24 AM   -   No more theory?

Pongoid

Posts: 2003

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Okay, I said that learning theory is something you have to do yourself, and it takes time, and there are rules, but you can't really write them down cuz the rules are very contextual, and constantly being changed, and rewritten, but that doesn't meean there's nothing to talk about. For example, I'd love to hear some theories on sonscapes and adding ambience to an otherwise dry, square driving track. I like this forum, and don't want to see it turn into a cemetary. I'd also like to hear people's theories on how they approach A alive gig. What goes through YOUR head as you're about to play, or when you get to the space, etc?


Ape

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Message 11/20                 Date: 06-Jul-00  @  01:37 PM   -   RE: No more theory?

Pongoid

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Some of you have the answers I was looking for. Igues I'm asking what goes through peoples' heads emotionally when they play, and before, and after?


Ape

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Message 12/20                 Date: 06-Jul-00  @  06:19 PM   -   RE: No more theory?

Marc

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Before: pure terror !! I get bad stage fright (and suffer from a slight stutter sometimes) makes me wonder why I do it (must be the adoration  

After: Bliss, it's like a weight has been lifted from my shoulders.

I've never taken the dance stuff out live though

Marc.

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Message 13/20                 Date: 07-Jul-00  @  10:20 PM   -   RE: No more theory?

deltasleep

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a while back i bought the leftfield album "leftism" just because it was marked as "widely acknowledged as the best dance album ever" Its full of every dirty trick in the dance music book. But it is well produced, punchy. The cheapest trick they used was on that one song that got rather popular, it was on the Wipeout XL sndtrk, it was a very average sounding track, and extremely monotonous, but theres the dude babbling in whatever-ish and it draws attention away from the monotony, they used it a couple times later in the album.
I tripped across how cool pitched down cymbals mix with sounds just this morning, damn i thought i had my own little trick. I've been at this since i was 13, and i was all excited about being able to finally get some hardware this summer, and the trans and clutch decide to go out on the saab and screw my budget......argh.

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Message 14/20                 Date: 08-Jul-00  @  03:22 AM   -   RE: No more theory?

captnnrg

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I have a couple production tips if anyone is interested. These may be simple but for any beginners these might be handy. One interesting effect you can implement with just a simple wave editor is preverb - just reverse your audio file, add reverb - and reverse it again, sounds like the words or sounds are being sucked in instead of pushed out... Also works with delays, some cool effects can be achieved using only preverb...
To thicken a thin vocal track use the original track center panned, then put the same vocals at 50% volume hard panned left detuned -3 cents and the same vocals at 50% volume hard panned right at +3cents... Sounds nice!
Hope these help!

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Message 15/20                 Date: 08-Jul-00  @  10:35 AM   -   RE: No more theory?

sitar

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Nice tips guys. They'll all be used in my first major release :P

I probably said this in the past but here goes. Music used to be more departmentalized. I learned 16th century counterpoint and harmony in school, or was it 17th century. That is the basis for western classical music. Composers had to know that stuff. Players of musical instruments had to know how to read the notes and produce the best sound from their instruments. Conductors had to know how to make the ensemble sound like one unit on the same page with feeling. Instrument makers had to know the dynamics that go into building an instrument that made the sounds that came out. Then when recording came into play, the engineering thing kicked in. And the performance hall designers had to know about acoustics. Can't forget them.

We have people making gear with all that goes into that. But apart from that, those of us making this music today are trying our darndest to do all of the above. And there are some crazys who won't feel satisfied until they've built their own synths. There is theory to all of the components but music has gone into less defined areas where you can't necessarily say where each component starts and begins. You have to create a sound that fits the melody you've written or more likely visa versa. You have to start mixing the minute you add the second track because you can hear the tracks played back at you a split second after you write them. You have to create the type of room ambience you want to fit the mood. Tell the virtual musicians how to swing and I could go on but you get the point. Lots of stuff to do. Sometimes we even press our own cds. I gotta stop. I'm scaring myself.

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Message 16/20                 Date: 08-Jul-00  @  08:38 PM   -   RE: No more theory?

Mindspawn

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Greets All, very cool topic.

First, what goes through me head before a performance: I get the 'tech' parts set. Like Peter, I get those details set, make sure all the bits are working, etc. Then an hour or so before 'showtime' I'll sit down behind me gear and 'commune' with the electronics. Sounds flaky, but it makes me feel connected. A few folks usually ask my techs what the hell I'm doing up there sitting behind my kit (I don't like to be interuppted during my 'meditation' so I have me techs keep folk away...), but I dunna let it bother me. I get too much out of doing it. I'll hang like that for thirty minutes to an hour, then away we go...

About adding atmosphere to a driving track: check the link above for a simple example of how 'I' might handle that. The track is butt simple, mostly samples and some live playing, and me and me guitarist friend did it in an evening. However, it does have a sense of 'space' in certain parts. There's so many approaches to how this might be done, and I use several on that track. I'm gonna sit down and describe some of it later tonight, and I'll post it to a new 'atmospheres' thread.

Peace

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Message 17/20                 Date: 09-Jul-00  @  10:12 AM   -   RE: No more theory?

Pongoid

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Right on, all. Keep this good stuff comin. Mindspawn, I am totally with you on the communion before the sermon thing, although I spend most of that 'before' period listening to, and watching everything that's going on, where people are at, what the DJ or live act is playing, how the frequency response is on the system, the air temperature, and humidity, what the air smells like,....basically just heightening my awareness as much as possible, then closing my eyes for a moment or two, and delving into the depths of the insanity that creates the noises in my head, which I then try to translate into sounds in meatspace. I'll usually do this three or four times before I play, sometimes to the chagrin of the other artists and DJs. It's actually kind of funny to watch folks sweat when you get onstage. I find the competitive attitudes of others amusing, because, it's not like that at all for me. I'm just there to do what I do, and people seem to like it, so that's cool. As for trying to blow somebody else off the stage or whatever? Never tried to intentionally make a set of music to shame someone else. That's small egotistical crap, not what I'm into. It's just hilarious, though, when I'm standing there behind the gear, dialling upa sound, or quickly programming another groove, and I can see the DJ looking over, watching, studying, and I look over at him after lighting up a butt, and the guy suddenly looks down and starts fumbling through records clumsily like he just caught with his pants down, and his track is running out. Tee-hee. Anyhow, that's a little bit of what I go through most times I play. Very happy to see others responses. Big ups, people.



Ape

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Message 18/20                 Date: 10-Jul-00  @  07:20 AM   -   RE: No more theory?

Marc

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I think the closest I've ever got to communing with my gear was headbutting my guitar in a rather frenzied moment (Blood, Broken Strings . . . . Not nice but it looked cool !) :o)

I think a lot of Pongoid's tips would work just as well in the studio, knowledge of where your heads at is always a good starting point in any musical endeavour.

Next easy tip - Get hold of Bram Bos's Moonfish, it's got the greatest lame timestretch feature that really adds spice to samples and stuff (used sparingly)

Marc.

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Message 19/20                 Date: 10-Jul-00  @  10:37 AM   -   RE: No more theory?

ggehiere

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As for writing tracks, it used be a sand-box experience
for me, playing out whatever was going through my mind
with my toys. Othertimes, it's just emotional
expression, and the technique and technical is added
lastly. Write at night, mix in the morning...

Cheer

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Message 20/20                 Date: 11-Jul-00  @  01:19 AM   -   RE: No more theory?

casparproject

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Beforehand I'm usually not feeling too much emotionally to tell the truth. It's kind of weird, and this goes for non-electronic performances too. I've trained myself to go into basically a disconnected analytical state right up until the moment the first notes come out. It keeps me from freakin out, and makes it easier for me to observe what other ppl there are doing and feeling. During playing it's totally different. My body switches over to a pretty much automatic state where it is totally controlled by the music. My emotions generally reflect what I felt when I first wrote each individual piece, but it is combined with an immense sense of power and control. If the audience responds well, there's usually a great amount of physical pleasure involved too. It's like an intense self knowledge is attained by your presenting your emotions to others, and your body rewards you by releasing all kinds of friendly chems into your brain. Afterwards, exhaustion, combined with a very similar feeling to that which you would feel after the most satisfying sex you've ever had. This is of course a description of how I feel at a good gig. Bad ones I just feel like puking the whole time, and one of em I actually did when I got home. Not a nice time.

Peaceout,

Peter

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