Original Message                 Date: 09-Jun-00  @  05:38 PM   -   Electronic Music Theory

deltasleep

Posts: 1

Link?:  Link
File?:  No file

I understand that most if not all electronica implicates SOME sort of established music theory. But is there a hidden theory to some styles? I can understand stuff like house music having a very noticable theory behind it. Or is it just cliches, thats the question.
I think that most electronic musicians have a definite sense of theory when they make music. They just don't ever write it down.
Or is this a Zen sort of thing. Perhaps "a theory of no theory"?

[ back to forum ]                           [quote]

Message 11/26                 Date: 12-Jun-00  @  12:04 AM   -   RE: Electronic Music Theory

casparproject

Posts:

Link?: Link

File?:  No file

you mean on acoustic instruments right? i've heard some pretty phat bass playing on a few D'n B albums. virtuosity is not really something that is revered in minimalism though, which is essentially what most electronic music is. i don't think that the history of western music is pointing us in the direction of increased tonal complexity. in fact, i'd be more inclined to say that it's leading us towards a total reversal of western tonality. in 200 years, I wouldn't be surprised if the reaction to a major 5th is the same as the current reaction to a minor 9th and vice-versa.

Peaceout,

Peter

[ back to forum ]               [quote]

Message 12/26                 Date: 12-Jun-00  @  07:49 AM   -   RE: Electronic Music Theory

Pongoid

Posts: 2003

Link?:  Link

File?:  No file

hmm... Theories of electronic music? Yeah, I guess you have to know them to break them, and some things work, and some don't, but to put that to paper certainly would stagnate some. Half of the art is how you make discoveries in getting sounds to things that they didn't previously. See, essentially what we've done is make science of art, and now we're taking that science and making art of it again, by pushing it in enexpected directions. So, by writing this stuff down, you give definate points to leap from, which again turns into cliche. How many tracks start off with a 4-on-the-floor bore kick, or the off set hats? Some actually take you good places from there, others don't, but it's a vaery familar cliche that serves as a refence point. Many's the idea I've put together, usng that as a starting point, then removed the straight kick, and the upbeat open hats, and the idea just didn't make any sense to a listener at all. Now, try applying that to some more abstract stuff like (I hate to use them as an example but none comes to mind as quickly) Autechre, that stuff just doesn't apply at all except by inference. I guess for me, it is kind of a Zen thing, and I know when the good stuff is happening live, but don't ask me to describe what's going through my head, if I'm thinking of rules or anything else, cuz I'm not thinking about anything in particular, just being there. Maybe others could come and analyze it. The same applies for plying good Jazz. Players don't think 'I'll try this mode to these changes' usually, and if they do, it sounds calculated. Just making scince out of art, and taking it no further. The best advice I can give is to practice and practice some more, particularly to practice playing, not practice practicing. That is how you learn this stuff, not through some fucking book! Good luck.

Ape

[ back to forum ]               [quote]

Message 13/26                 Date: 12-Jun-00  @  02:58 PM   -   RE: Electronic Music Theory

swanofnever

Posts:

Link?:  No link

File?:  No file

this is something that i think we're all aware of... well, maybe just me. it's like sitar said -- it's all about knowing what your gear does. genres/cliches and all that are invariably the product of a few inspired minds and a truck-load of second-rate hacks... i really think it's all about mood. you wouldn't drop a crazy ripping 303 line down in the middle of a smooth house track, and you wouldn't have some diva crooning in an acid track... okay, not wouldn't, i don't want people jumping at my throat for being uninventive...

what i mean is that all music (at least popular/western music) has always had an overarching definition/theory -- look at all the bands that use guitar, bass, drum set: metal, punk, the beatles, hayden... the only real difference is production values. it'a all about sound/feel, and that's what i love about electronic music -- the available palette is virtually unlimited. but since electronic music doesn't have vocals (well, the good stuff...)/isn't politically motivated (usually), the production values are even more "in the spotlight" because that's essentially all the music is -- feel. there's no message... well, i've always thought that every good techno choon's message should be "this is going to blow your mind"...

anyway, i'm sorry for all of my terribly long-winded posts, but this is one of the things i like hearing/thinking about the most, because this is the first truly abstract form of music that's been popular in centuries -- it operates on a purely subconcious level, and therefore we can only have the rough, working definitions that we do have, because our insights are all intuitive... i don't mean to be talking out of my ass here, all i'm really trying to say is I LOVE THIS SHIT, pure ideas and induced feelings... of course there's some sort of actually purely "musical" theory at work (i.e dark tunes generally do NOT happen when the bassline's in a major key) etc.
okay i'll shut up now, but i really want to here as much as everyone has to say, cause i'm really, really interested in this, and i think it's a fairly important thing to be aware of.

[ back to forum ]               [quote]

Message 14/26                 Date: 13-Jun-00  @  01:16 AM   -   RE: Electronic Music Theory

tjader

Posts:

Link?:  No link

File?:  No file

about the playing in eletronic music not being up 2 scratch...true lots of it is utter twod.but some aint.i think you can learn loads by listening to jazz....take stuff like fela kuti,wicked keyboarding if you listen and learn to play like that...and you have the right beat you have serious....house music

[ back to forum ]               [quote]

Message 15/26                 Date: 13-Jun-00  @  08:22 AM   -   RE: Electronic Music Theory

swanofnever

Posts:

Link?:  No link

File?:  No file

well, i'm sorry to continue my rant, but as good as jazz is (there's an annual festival here, quite good... live jazz is so much better) i really can't beleive the whole "technical proficiency" thing... like rage against the machine and their "we didn't use any samples, etc" bullshit... would anyone think of criticizing jazz based on the fact that the production/sounds aren't new? no, because that's not what jazz is about -- likewise, i really think all those damn guitar-wanking fools should realize that all they're doing is limiting themselves if they think being a good musician consists of being able to solo as fast as yngwie malmstein. writing a good song will always outshine playing a good song, at least in my eyes...

[ back to forum ]               [quote]

Message 16/26                 Date: 14-Jun-00  @  01:55 AM   -   RE: Electronic Music Theory

itjader

Posts:

Link?:  No link

File?:  No file

i dont understand your rant....i think the pallette of sounds idea is great ,comination of colours.i dont understand,as good as jazz is ..crap,i live in london is..GReAt!we have a good attitude to tunes a dj could actually get away with playing jazz next to a house tune...wow just think of that.

[ back to forum ]               [quote]

Message 17/26                 Date: 14-Jun-00  @  02:54 AM   -   RE: Electronic Music Theory

kales

Posts:

Link?:  No link

File?:  No file

I think the only theory that needs application
here is the theory of studying different styles of
music. Just listen to whatever you want and absorb
the aspects of that music you enjoy. Fit it together to create your own style. My background includes nothing but pure technical work: midi, sequencing, circuit design etc. etc.

All music today is electronic in some form, but taking dance music for example, if you talk to a lot of artists their background comes from a huge range of listening to other music and absorbing the styles they liked.

[ back to forum ]               [quote]

Message 18/26                 Date: 14-Jun-00  @  10:57 AM   -   RE: Electronic Music Theory

damballah

Posts: 1675

Link?:  Link

File?:  No file

The whole point of the "technical proficiency" thing is not as an end in itself -- music that focuses on that alone usually sucks no matter what the genre (it got really bad in the 70s with people like Yes and Return to Forever). The point is to break down the barriers between what you want to express and your ability to express it -- also no matter what the genre. As far as virtuosity being not revered in minimalism, take the blues -- very minimal in almost every regard -- it's not what is played, it's how it's played. I don't know that we should be getting so self-congratulatory about creating music as disposable as a lot of electronic music is, although that is the young man's game -- to believe he's reinventing the world in a way no previous generation has. The 12-tone guys did it, the ragtime guys did it, the be-bop guys did it, the rock 'n' roll guys did it, the punk guys did it, the hip hop guys did it. And everyone of 'em was right, in a way. Now its the synth guys turn. OK then.

[ back to forum ]               [quote]

Message 19/26                 Date: 14-Jun-00  @  07:19 PM   -   RE: Electronic Music Theory

deltasleep

Posts:

Link?:  No link

File?:  No file

blues is an exscuse for bad guitar playing bad guitar...ugh
what truly makes a good guitar player is CHORDWORK, when i was young, johnny smith and and my father were still good friends, he flew in from colorado springs, yikes, now that man is a good guitar player.....
but thats another story altogether....
you guys with the whole 'reinvent this or that idea" really shoudl try to work out of it, as long as you see it all as a trap it will be.
perhaps thats why so much electronic is percieved as a novelty, we're all too caught up in the "this is gonna knock your socks off" mentality

[ back to forum ]               [quote]

Message 20/26                 Date: 14-Jun-00  @  08:25 PM   -   RE: Electronic Music Theory

damballah

Posts: 1675

Link?:  Link

File?:  No file

Admitted, there's an awful lot of bad geee-tar passed off as blues by white guys trying to keep the idiom alive after all the black guys have moved on to other things or got old and died. And I'm not a fan of the form, generally. In fact, most of it's shit. However, I mixed a Son Seals show several years ago and hearing a master at work is a revelation.

[ back to forum ]               [quote]