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Subject: EQ, RECORDING AUDIO AN' ALL THAT BOLLOCKS


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Original Message                 Date: 17-Dec-00  @  11:01 PM   -   EQ, RECORDING AUDIO AN' ALL THAT BOLLOCKS

DIGITAL CHICKEN

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hello everyone....!

right, here goes - i have a decent set-up here at home; akai, nova, 101, couple of synths, drumstation, etc. i sequence and record audio on my beloved (but sometimes HIGHLY BASTARD IRRITATING) pc.

here's my problem. as anyone out there using audio and plug ins, etc, will know, it's amazingly inspiring in terms of creativity, but i have trouble with eq and getting mixes sounding decent on more than a few systems. there i am, getting the drum track chugging along happily, then - bam! - i know, i'll record this into audio, and put this effect on it, etc. the problem is that i'm very often reluctant to record things because my eq'ing and final mix skills are minimal. i'm always thinking yeah, sounds shit-hot through my krk monitors (i know, i know, piss ant bass response, etc, stop fucking shouting, will you?) but play it through anything else, and hey - IT'S A TOTALLY NEW REMIX BY A DEAF SOUND ENGINEER!

SO........

i worry that much about making commitments to recording stuff that i find it extremely hindering to creativity. i ususally set the levels of what i want to record as high as possible, record it flat and go from there. but then, if the sound needs this freq. rolling off, and this one added, it means eq'ing individual sounds on the pc which is Pain-in-the-arseville, Tenessee.

maybe my main problem is a total lack of understanding when it comes to recording through nearfields, keeping everything flat and so on. i actually managed to get a track sounding good on a lot of systems not too long ago, but the method i used to achieve this was fucking ludicrous!! it involved recording what sounded good in my 'studio' onto dat, taking the dat into my bedroom and running it through my hi-fi to see what adjustments needed to be made. TOO MUCH BASS!! ok, roll some off....try again. MORE TOP END!! do that, for fuck's sakes - NOT ENOUGH BASS, TOO MUCH LOW MIDDLE!! etc, etc.

i really don't want to continue with this way of working, i even tried lugging my hi-fi in here and mixing through it. surprise, surprise, it sounded shite in my car!

i'm not expecting to have instant results or anything, but it's just always in the back of my mind that when i'm recording this and that into audio, that i might be just creating extra work for myself later.

also, some people say 'have every sound in it's own frequency range, so it has it's own space', others say this is nonsense and to just trust your ears! well, i haven't got a clue about frequency ranges and how to get things sounding spatial and balanced through the sole use of eq, but on the other hand, if i trusted my ears (when it comes to these monitors, at least) on this system alone, i'd be fucked!!

guys, help me - please.

i have an amazing passion for electronic music but i ALWAYS get seriously depressed when i record a track, it sounds shit, and i feel like i've wasted a lot of time and energy. as you all know, this kind of music (dance, etc) is totally sound dependant; fair enough with guitars and more natural instruments...it's going to be the same song on someone elses guitar, piano, etc, but if i sample THAT sound, that's the one i want to hear!

perhaps i should stop crying like a little girl and just write a tune, take a cdr with all the individual audio tracks to a pro-end studio, bung 'em some cash and hope they can save the day.

:-(

yours, dc!

(p.s. how fucking long is this message??!? sorry!)



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Message 11/17                 Date: 30-Dec-00  @  11:44 PM   -   RE: EQ, RECORDING AUDIO AN' ALL THAT BOLLOCKS

Defector Z

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Well, I will disagree politely with one thing that stephen said above. Personally, it wasn't until I really went WHACK on my mixer that I discovered ways to mix better. Personally, I do ALOT of stuff on the mixer, and I don't think that is necessarily a bad thing. I say, learn to play your mixer like it was another instrument. Because truly, it is. you can shape and sculpt sounds on it like you do with any other piece of gear you have. If you get a sound that doesn't need tweaking, fine. Keep it. If you have a sound that needs a little punch, you can certainly add it on the mixer. Especially if your gear can't provide it.

Otherwise, I agree with Stephen.



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Message 12/17                 Date: 10-Jan-01  @  11:00 PM   -   RE: EQ, RECORDING AUDIO AN' ALL THAT BOLLOCKS

stephen

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Yes you are right Defector Z you can use the desk as a device to enhance sounds, and every producer has a slightly different approach to how he/she mixers their material. However, if you`re using an `analogue` desk, at the budget end of the market (say under 2 grands worth), then I would be inclined to say that too much eq will mess with your signal and can put some nasty colouration on your sounds. This is not really noticable to the untrained ear, but when you get to the mastering stage of a track and are referencing against other material you will find that the use of too much `cheap` eq will create harsh overtones in the mid range and top and unbalanced bass at the bottom.
However, if you are using a high spec desk it really is a different ballgame, the eq then becomes a real tool to mess with.
All too often people blame the desk and monitors for dodgy mixes, but if the sounds arn`t spot in the first place, then no amount of eq is gonna sort it (this is something that took me years to work out!)
On the other hand, a bit of harsh eqing can sometimes create some great results, if that`s what your after. (rules are made to be broken, but you have to learn the rules before they can be broken)



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Message 13/17                 Date: 11-Jan-01  @  07:24 AM   -   RE: EQ, RECORDING AUDIO AN' ALL THAT BOLLOCKS

teemu

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If you got a cheap desk you should mostly cut with eq, as boosting sounds sounds crap in most cases. Especially because the eq on cheap desks never has a Q knob so you can't boost anything accurately. The question is why don't they make cheap-ish desks with Q? It would probably not make the desk THAT much more expensive but it would make it a lot more versatile.

You should buy a good external parametric eq in any case though and use that for most sounds, it can really make a difference.



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Message 14/17                 Date: 11-Jan-01  @  08:28 PM   -   RE: EQ, RECORDING AUDIO AN' ALL THAT BOLLOCKS

stephen

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The Q function is used to broaden and narrow the bandwidth of the frequency you are eqing and yes it is a very useful function for very precise eqing of a signal. However, my point was more to do with the general lack of quality of the signal path on cheaper desks. Over eqing a sound through these cheaper components can have adverse affects on your sound and create a nasty harshness to certain frequency areas.
The reason why manufactures do not incorporate this into their design is because there are other functions which are more important on smaller desks, like input channels, busses, no. of eq bands, and aux sends and returns.
You can survive without parametrics, but none of the above really.



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Message 15/17                 Date: 12-Jan-01  @  06:51 AM   -   RE: EQ, RECORDING AUDIO AN' ALL THAT BOLLOCKS

influx

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hence the reason I pointed out the Alesis. Parametric mid. with a Q knob 



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Message 16/17                 Date: 15-Jan-01  @  04:49 PM   -   RE: EQ, RECORDING AUDIO AN' ALL THAT BOLLOCKS

ville

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great thread...



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Message 17/17                 Date: 15-Jan-01  @  09:37 PM   -   RE: EQ, RECORDING AUDIO AN' ALL THAT BOLLOCKS

phunkytek

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anyone know how to do a good job mastering a dance track in wavelab or other software platform. Do you eg first then multiband then peak limit? I need a frame of referance. I can't find any books on the subject either.



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