Original Message 1/19                 Date: 14-Mar-05  @  09:57 AM   -   phasin' hell- im outta my depth.....

monkeybasket2001

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Hi all,

i'm currently having a phasing issue i need to correct- my drums and bass are all going into a subgroup- with that subgroup going out as mono into a filter/eq/comp and back into a channel on my mixer filtered to buggery- now all is good when the channel is played on its own or when the original is played on its own but obviously when they mix i get phasing issues at certain frequencies, im not playing the two at the same volume- the filtered version sits under the main- so im thinking the only way to correct this is change the phase of the mono lead coming outta the group and feeding the filter- but i dontr how to change the phase- is it case of swapping the two internal wires over at one side of the lead- as you can see im outta my depth but want to know how to solve this...

recap
HARDWARE- stereo signal->subgroup->mono out->filter->back into channel of mixer= huge phase- help!

Greg

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Message 2/19                 Date: 14-Mar-05  @  01:14 PM   -   RE: phasin' hell- im outta my depth.....

k

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i'm a tad confused cos subgroups are usualy stereo - so why the mono send out?

also sending thru that chain and back is probably adding a Millisecond or two delay to that signal, hence the phasing when added to the original - why are you adding it back to original, wouldnt it be better to just use filtered signal only for that effect?

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Message 3/19                 Date: 14-Mar-05  @  01:25 PM   -   RE: phasin' hell- im outta my depth.....

monkeybasket2001

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ah because my frostwave is only in modo so to retain the bass, bd and bongos i needed to run the mono from the stereo to get the sum of both sides-

the reason im tying to do this is that at some points i want the meat of the groove there with its highs and lows but with some quick sweeps across the mids with resonance- why? it sounded pretty cool despite the phasing....also at another point everything but the bass stops going through the filter which again needs to be layered over the original bass so i can realtime tweak it...

i could just not use it that way but i was sure i could get round this somehow...

greg

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Message 4/19                 Date: 14-Mar-05  @  03:28 PM   -   RE: phasin' hell- im outta my depth.....

psylichon

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if any of your send/return cables are TRS balanced, you could pop them halfway out of the jack. It would basically act as a TS cable this way, but your signal will be flipped 180 outta phase which could work in this situation. Won't work with unbalanced interconnects though.

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Message 5/19                 Date: 14-Mar-05  @  03:48 PM   -   RE: phasin' hell- im outta my depth.....

monkeybasket2001

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cheers psy....bugger it!! i need inserts on my subgroups- bah!!

thanks anyways...

greg

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Message 6/19                 Date: 14-Mar-05  @  04:00 PM   -   RE: phasin' hell- im outta my depth.....

psylichon

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I know they also make analog boxes that allow you to "dial in" your phase shift. Other than awareness of their existence, I know nothing else about em.

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Message 7/19                 Date: 14-Mar-05  @  04:06 PM   -   RE: phasin' hell- im outta my depth.....

monkeybasket2001

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ok, in terms of theory do you know if it should work- if it shouldn't ill stop worrying

inverted mono version of stereo loop mixed with stereo loop at -3db- will this phase?

greg

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Message 8/19                 Date: 14-Mar-05  @  04:23 PM   -   RE: phasin' hell- im outta my depth.....

psylichon

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I don't think it's a matter of IF it will phase (all parallel processing will induce phase issues unless delays are properly compensated), but whether the phasing will be audible enough to be a problem. Only you can tell us.

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Message 9/19                 Date: 14-Mar-05  @  04:28 PM   -   RE: phasin' hell- im outta my depth.....

monkeybasket2001

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yeah i agree with that- i guess what im saying is i dont understand phase when you mix mono and stereo- believe me if it sounds good ill keep it but i dont want to go to the trouble of building a reversed phase mono jack if it wont crack the problem-

greg

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Message 10/19                 Date: 14-Mar-05  @  05:58 PM   -   RE: phasin' hell- im outta my depth.....

milan

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ya... its quite possible that just reversing the signal by 180° wont solve the problem. theoreticaly you could use an analog phase shifter, but AFAIK those things are a) expensive and b) not very common i believe.

building a phase reverse cable aint all that complicated. just take a ballanced cable and re-wire the 2 pins on one side.

the perfect solution would be to record the dry and wet signals separately into the pc and line them up in a sequencer... but if you aint using one then you're stuck i'm afraid :/

regards, m.

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