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Subject: guns


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Original Message 1/147                 Date: 17-Oct-02  @  04:59 AM   -   guns

psylichon

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Just saw a trailer for Michael Moore's new movie "Bowling for Columbine." It's all about guns in America and it got me thinking. Why are guns such a problem in America? How 'sacred' is the second amendment?

Personally, I don't think guns serve any purpose but to kill. You can target shoot without lethal potential and you can kill animals without firepower. I don't like the government telling us what we can and cannot own, but I really don't see the need for guns in any society.

I'm curious what you guys think. Do we need guns? Would it make a noticeable social impact to outlaw guns? I think it may... more than waiting for the average American psyche to evolve.

Quoting Linda Richomond, "Twalk amongst yahselves"

I love the smell of stirred shit.

psylichon



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Message 2/147                 Date: 17-Oct-02  @  05:32 AM   -   RE: guns

Pongoid

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When all of mankind puts down its guns, I will put mine down, but until the time that people everwhere, not just civilians, but ALL humans can get past killing one another, PERIOD, then I will keep mine, and if Michael Moore came through my front door with his cameraman without asking, I'd shoot him too. Yes there are things worth dying for and killing over.


Is anybody here telling me that if they came home and found their spouse or child being raped and tortured that they would not shoot their assailant/s if they had the option? Rather would they just forgive and forget and hope the cops caught up with them later with stun sticks and goop guns, or hope that these evil bastards just had karma catch up with them and got hit by a bus?
Let someone who has been raped or kidnapped tell you the answer to that question before you even think about trying to answer that one yourself. I've lived with victims of both circumstances, and I'll tell, you right now humans are fucking animals in a really good disguise, and when that changes, then I will lay mine down.

Errata, you have been programmed by Moore's ideology. His facts are not always accurate and his views do not reflect much beyond flaming liberalism and idealistic bullshit in a world of fucked up, scared and weak creatures. The cops carry guns. The military of the world carry guns, and I trust neither of those groups to be comprised of individuals with the intelligence to properly assume the responsibilities and power they are given. Nor are humans sufficiently civilized in their behaviour towards one another to not need those tools. Moore has never been raped or kidnapped to my knowledge, maybe mugged.

I've been shot myself, and I can tell you that it REALLY sucks, and I didn't even deserve it, it was an accident.

I'd say that humanity would be a lot better off with a lot less farming of animals for meat consumption, rather more land dedicated to wilderness and hunting, with more people being forced to take their own animals and cleaning them and learning the gravity of killing another creature rather than this illusion that meat grows in grocery stores and comes in plastic packages and is very good for you that way.


Moore makes compelling arguments, and he is very charismatic, but his goal is fucked up and fantastic, and won't work with humanity the way it is. It's easy to manipulate films and situations to say ANYTHING you want, but in this case it's just really strong spin from a very good psychological programmer to which many will fall victim. I am disappointed and disgusted, and hope that people can snap out of this and see that laws do not take guns away from anybody but law-abiding citizens, and societies, especially ones of this size, proportion, and competitive mentality will not function correctly without these kinds of tools at their disposal. Know who functioned well without guns in their civilians hands? The Nazis. The Maoists. Feudal Japan (and then they were just hacking each other to death with swords over dirty looks and some behavioral template of their idea of honor).

You can count me the fuck out. I'm keeping mine, and that's that.

Ape



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Message 3/147                 Date: 17-Oct-02  @  05:35 AM   -   RE: guns

influx

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you fucker. why do you insist on making me think god dammit?

first: outlawing things does not remedy them as a problem. This has been proven time and again.

second: the average american simply does NOT need a gun. How many of us have ever been or will ever be faced with a violent situation. Would a gun alter (past tense) the outcome? Would we USE the thing?

Ive had a fairly violent past, and have seen guns used in many ways that I didnt agree with. Frightening.

thing is...the crap that goes on..those arent legal guns anyway! You think CRIP buys guns at the ma and pa? no. they buy stolen guns on the street. Blood, too.

now...the military...now THOSE guns scare me, the level that theyre at.

and I think the 2nd was supposed to be regarding the rights of the citizens to arm themselves against an oppressive system (AHEM!) but not to just fucking walk around carrying one.



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Message 4/147                 Date: 17-Oct-02  @  08:29 AM     Edit: 17-Oct-02  |  08:29 AM   -   RE: guns

Maarten

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.



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Message 5/147                 Date: 17-Oct-02  @  08:29 AM   -   RE: guns

Maarten

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Yeah, and where do those stolen guns often come from at first? right.



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Message 6/147                 Date: 17-Oct-02  @  10:49 AM   -   RE: guns

k

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fear is the great controller...



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Message 7/147                 Date: 17-Oct-02  @  12:19 PM   -   RE: guns

Zazza

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At some point video games and remote warfare will converge and 'joining the army' will consist of being good at quake VII or unreal tournament 2008.

Head shot!

sigh...



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Message 8/147                 Date: 17-Oct-02  @  12:43 PM   -   RE: guns

steef

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it's all a load of bollocks anyway - I would've
thought A.I.M. were exercising their
constitutional rights at wounded knee but it
never did them any good, did it?



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Message 9/147                 Date: 17-Oct-02  @  02:17 PM   -   RE: guns

milan

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"At some point video games and remote warfare will converge"- ever played America´s Army? free 3D game of highest quality free to download, promoted by US Army and ministry of defense. in order to run it you must obtain codes directly from us army, and game features training and schools for special units, if thats what you want to play in the game. insane. i actually downloaded and applied for a permit, but it wouldnt run without a hi-end video card. check it out if you´re curious.



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Message 10/147                 Date: 17-Oct-02  @  07:11 PM   -   RE: guns

errata

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Wow, Pongoid... you rebuffed me before I responded! Were you thinking of me when you were writing that? Could you feel me out in the illogical, spiritual ether grinding my teeth and thinking, "It's you what's the problem?" I was really surprised to see my name there.

I've not been brain washed by anyone. Gun control is one of the few places where I still come down like a libertarian. As you say Pongoid, in a perfect world we wouldn't need 'em. I personaly prefer to live as an altruist, and wouldn't own a gun myself. But i wouldn't dream of demanding that others MUST give there's up. There's a lot of truth in the sentiment that illegalizing guns would mean that only criminals would have them!

So, uh... no, I wouldn't say that people should have their guns taken away. It's just like nukes really. It's a terrible f*ckin' shame they're there. But now that we've got them, who thinks it's smart to disarm and give all the power to the one's who don't? Terrible bitch of a situation, but here we are.

I love reading Michael Moore. I think he's great, and I agree with him a LOT! But not so often that I'm incapable of thinking for myself. It's a little unfair that I've been accused otherwise!

e



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