Original Message 1/13                 Date: 05-Jun-00  @  12:35 PM   -   Trance Drums

raver

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I hate to ask about this by calling them "trance drums" but I've heard this in a lot of trance/progressive house tracks. It's the snare drum. In a groove some how the snare sounds like it off from the 2 and 4 beat by a little and it makes the whole thing groove so well. I've tried bumping the snares off beat a little but when I do it, it just sounds like my seq. is pissed. Can anyone help. If you need an example just listen to a digweed or sasha comp. cd. Actually I think heaven scents drums are like this not sure. Any help would be great.

Steve

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Message 2/13                 Date: 09-Jun-00  @  07:06 AM   -   RE: Trance Drums

JAWA

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Simple its just down to clever sample management

The snares are layered snares, you have the initial 909 type punch snare at the begining then the tail has the extra length that gives the snare its drive, oh shit this makes no sense, it sounded good in my head right?

Basically try and make snares that no "Dsh" at the beginning then an extra "shh" at the end, they can also be compressed (ratio 5, attack 5, release 80-100)to give them the sort of breathing effect......

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Message 3/13                 Date: 09-Jun-00  @  07:09 AM   -   RE: Trance Drums

JAWA

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That should read (attack 80, release 5) oops

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Message 4/13                 Date: 09-Jun-00  @  09:44 AM   -   RE: Trance Drums

k

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ofbeat swing on the snares (and hats) to get that commercial-trance swing you mean?

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Message 5/13                 Date: 09-Jun-00  @  09:52 AM   -   RE: Trance Drums

raver

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I'm sorta new to this type of beat(as far as swinging and stuff). I'm using Cubase, a AKAI S3000XL, and a Drumstation for the drum stuff. I have a nanoverb and a zoom 1201. Can someone explain how i do this in the seq. Go easy on me, I am kinda new to it 

steve

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Message 6/13                 Date: 09-Jun-00  @  06:51 PM   -   RE: Trance Drums

CK

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Its very heavy swing quantise that moves the snare from the off beat to very close to beats 2 and 4. In Logic Audio it's the 8F swing quantise level. By the way without looking in Logic I can't remember whether its and 8F or a 16F, but it's obvious if you try it.

In Cubase I think it would be a heay shuffle, basically it's the classic house pattern, but used in Progressive House/Euro Trance at a slightly faster Tempo.

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Message 7/13                 Date: 10-Jun-00  @  07:40 AM   -   RE: Trance Drums

JAWA

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I dunno its not that much to quantisation, cos some rocking trance tunes are straight 16th note, the thing that really gives a trance tune its drive, is the long decay on the open hat, by adjusting this so that it brings anticipation to the snare drum (one which has that two stage dp-shh sound i mentioned above) should really give a kicking drum groove.......

Also don't forget delay, try having subtle rhythmic delays on bass sounds (subtle as in its not prominent but you know it's there)

Thirdly and finally its all down to percussion.

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Message 8/13                 Date: 13-Jun-00  @  09:18 PM   -   RE: Trance Drums

k

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took some time out to analyse some of their comp stuff...

do you really mean the snare is actually off on the 2,4.. or that there is some other grace snare notes before or after the 2/4 beats?, like a shuffle or swing or something to the beats ??.., they use lots of different beats, a real braod cross section with lots of different fx on tracks, and there's sometimes rimshots and claps layered in eq's underpatterns reinforcing the kis and snares, plus other samples, with reverb fx on sometimes, delay feedback fx , layered beats like on 'Superstring' which has got like a layered samba-type pattern etc, there's delays at work sometimes subtley on kiks....

but if you mean the snares are just dropped on the 2 and 4 behind the beat, i cant hear that on any sasha/digweed comps ive heard it's smak on the beat to me...

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Message 9/13                 Date: 15-Jun-00  @  05:35 PM   -   RE: Trance Drums

CK

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The snare is just in front of beats 2 and 4, which is typical of house and of course what they are playing is better called progressive house or in fact anything except trance. If you have a very heavy swing the snare comes in so late that it is just before the kick which gives that distinctive house feel.

I think the point about Sasha and Digweed's style is that it sort of has a groove, whereas trance tends to be more mechanical.

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Message 10/13                 Date: 16-Jun-00  @  02:20 AM   -   RE: Trance Drums

gs

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you got me confused CK. if the kick comes in "so late".. wouldn't it come after the kick, rather than just before? a 16F quantise will keep the snare exactly on the kick, not sure about the 8F.


house/trance grooves often have a snare/clap on the beat, as well as a little clap/rim/snare/whatever juuust before the beat. you get use a 16F for that (i think, will have to try it). sounds almost like a flam.

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