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Subject: jungle beats


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Original Message 1/42                 Date: 11-Aug-99  @  04:15 PM   -   jungle beats

phlow

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lo.. could someone please post a d&b or jungle beat for me to learn from?
thanks
ian



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Message 2/42                 Date: 14-Aug-99  @  12:13 AM   -   RE: jungle beats

k

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12time.mid


BEATS 1 0 0 0  |  2 0 0 0  |  3 0 0 0  |  4 0 0 0
kik 1 0 0 0  |  0 0 1 0  |  0 0 0 0  |  1 0 0 0
drum 1 0 1 0  |  1 0 1 0  |  1 0 1 0  |  1 0 1 0
accent 1 0 0 0  |  0 0 1 0  |  0 0 0 0  |  1 0 1 0
raga+kik 0 0 0 0  |  0 0 0 0  |  1 0 0 0  |  0 0 0 0

well, the thing is this... alot of jungle now uses straight drumbeats... but, the KEY to jungle is 3 time.... like, in reggae, you get a 3 time break... this eveloved into ragga, which was 3 time accented thruout... so the key is... you need to count...123-123-12 - 123-123-12....

thing is, a huge amount of african music is 3 time, and this carried over into music like Blues.. a typical old blues riff has a 3 time beat on the ride or hats, while the kik and snare use a 4 time... same in flamenco... which is again influenced by arab music... it all binds together, cos 3 & 4 are all devisible and work out as long as you accent it right and add in some 1/2 beats of 2 to round it up to 4, 8, 16 etc...... as in 3+3+2=8 or 3+3+3+3+2+2=16

flamenco uses this beat: 123-123-123-12-12...it is a 12 time derivative.. but again, the key is 3 time.. most african & arabic persian, egyptian etc music uses 3 time...

in your typical reggea 3 time break, it is an 8 beat break in triplets over a single bar at double-time.... so... to make a full bar of 4/4 - 3time break... you get...:

123-123-12.. makes 8 total... in reggea, as a drummer, you'll bust 8 of those in succession with a roll out at the end, and a small roll possibly between each set of 4... you roll out into the drop beat again at which point, the tempo halves again.... when you roll out into the beat, the trplet is the feel for the hats.. and the kik & snare then double-up...

like, you know in jungle alot of the time the bassline is half the tempo of the beat.... hence jungle is tempo's at 2 x the standard reggea average tempo (around 80bpm)...

so... first you need the 3 time break.... this is the whole basis for the jungle feel.... here's a file above of a 3 time break over 2 bars...
understand that.. and you have jungle... all you do is fill in the spaces between snare beats to make faster roll variation... ITS ALL DOWN TO THE ACCENTED OFFBEATS WHICH MAKE IT ... also, add-in extra kik-drums... just open the file in your sequencer, then try adding in ONE extra kik-drum in different places to get different variations... try the extra kiks and when you get the idea, you'll be sailing...

in one Ghanaian riddim this beat is sung as something like:

can-i-have-some-more-please


can-i-have-some-more-please


yes---you-------can


yes---you-------can
or...

123-123-12


123-123-12


1---2----3


1---2----3

listen to the file, and all will be clear...

the pattern below needs accents to make it work... accent on the second drum is added in the grid

notice how the kik drum accents the 3 time beats... and also remember, the second key is the bassline, which is played at half the tempo...

all in all, i reckon this is die to the creation of jungle as being from a DJ playing on one deck an old bub-line, and on the other, a breakbeat played at doubletime from an album played at 45rpm... from there, you simply 'Push' the break beat or fast-fade it in the traditional dub-style to get the breakbeat accent...

fast-fading is the origin of the threetime break in dub... in the old days, you'd get a dub running on the mixer, grab the master fader, and 'PUMP' it.. in that riddim...

fade-2-3 / fade-2-3 / fade-2


fade-2-3 / fade-2-3 / fade-2

... like that... then drummers started doing it live... and this became ragga....

anyways... listen to the file, and you'll get it ok....

ive added in the old Mighty-Diamonds bassline from 'Pass-the-kootchie' (or however the hell you spell it), just to give you an idea of the bassline tempo... (well, it's pretty close to the bassline from that song anyways)...



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Message 3/42                 Date: 14-Aug-99  @  12:29 AM   -   RE: jungle beats

k

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by the way.... triplet delay is a MUST to give a rolling feel.... also you can grab an old funky drumloop (any old crap)... and chop it up in cake/logic/vst etc... then copy/drag the chopped parts around so that the accents above are the start-points for the chopped file.. overlay that ontop of some midi beat, and you geta smooth cool layer.. or just use chopped loop...



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Message 4/42                 Date: 14-Aug-99  @  12:45 AM   -   RE: jungle beats

k

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there ya go... there's a snippet from some cheezy jungle cd... but you can clearly hear the accented:

123-123-12



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Message 5/42                 Date: 17-Aug-99  @  07:42 PM   -   RE: jungle beats

errata

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Great info K! I've never been able to explain this stuff without a drum kit/machine in the room.

Here's mine, though.
It's a simple tech-step jungle thing. I agree, I'm hearing more and more sequenced sounds for D$B and less sampled breaks, much cleaner feel, really. But it's nice to try the hand at both...

Across the loop It simply goes:

Kick-hat-snare Kick-hat-snare kick-kick. (or like k says...1,2,3 1,2,3 1,2...) A sampled break to repalce the kick kick in the fourth bar will spice it up and give it that jungle flavah.

Slightly randomizing both the pitch (just a little) and the velocity of the snare gives it a natural feel...Bot I wouldn't screw around with the kick...

Also, evry other pass might get a reverse of the sampled break at the end for a change up...double time a ride snare over the loop for more of a frantic feel...



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Message 6/42                 Date: 20-Aug-99  @  04:00 PM   -   RE: jungle beats

droon

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this is just one that comes to mind...
the theorie wuz very interresting but i just sing breaks in the shower and then write'em down.
the way i see it, it all revolves around the snare. kick make the groove and hihats fill it up.
the basic is: O~°~~O°~



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Message 7/42                 Date: 22-Aug-99  @  08:16 AM   -   RE: jungle beats

k

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true, but the basic rool is what im giving the guy cos he doesnt get it at all, you gotta get the feel for it before you can freestyle



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Message 8/42                 Date: 23-Aug-99  @  01:18 AM   -   RE: jungle beats

eurikon

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You guys are really funny in here , i've been making music for a long while now (15 years) and i didn't have a clue that shhhtuff like this ....ehhm how you call it?? ah yeah ... 'message board' with seqence table ... that this shtuff was going on . Anyway i'm glad for the newbies, and those who haven't found there rythmic feels yet . Now you guys can actually learn from others just by looking at the screen... hehehe
Butt never the less aint nothing like learning it the realway ON A F**CKING DRUM MACHINE or behind a SET OF FUCKING REAL DRUMS.... otherwise you will NEVER get the real vibes into your SOUL ..... says me AbOriginal goodluck 2 yah all. (remember those days on the ATARI :-) )



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Message 9/42                 Date: 23-Aug-99  @  11:29 AM   -   RE: jungle beats

k

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like it says on the intro page... LEARN to play drums... although ive expressed it somewhat differently



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Message 10/42                 Date: 06-Sep-99  @  07:13 PM   -   drum and bass production

bruceleehifi

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Hello,

I have some questions for you all, please help me if you can... I'm interested in producing some drum and bass, more on the intelligent side (squarepusher, amon tobin, friend, etc.) and some dub with indian/middle-eastern influences (suns of arka, alpha and omega, artists on the baraka/wordsound labels, etc). As far as equipment I have a pentium iii 550 computer with 128 MB ram, 20 GB fast IDE hard-drive, and cd rewriteable drive; a pentium 120 laptop computer; an alesis midiverb effects rack; some effects pedals (delay, flange, wah); some nice mikes; and various instruments (melodica, tabla, guitar, bass, turntables). For sample editing I have wavelab, soundforge, and recycle. As far as sequencing-type programs I have Cubase VST, Cakewalk, Samplitude, and Acid. The most basic, fundamental question I have is which of these programs do you think I should learn to use as a base for building up my tracks? Or is there some other program which you recommend instead? I'm sure they are all utilizable, but I would like to learn the one which will be most practical for what I have in mind (i.e. jungle and dub). I would like to become proficient at one of them, but I don't know which would be the best choice - what do most other electronic producers use as far as pc software? Also, how do I go about making my own devastating basslines? For example, I would like to layer some old school Urdu poetry over some phat Ed Rush/Optical style basslines... But I have no idea of how to create basslines... How about the breaks, can I tweak around with samples, or do I need some sort of drum machine as well? What other equipment do you all think would be useful for me - i am trying to budget some money and want to build up things in some logical sequence. Do you think that I need a sampler, keyboard, workstation, novation bassstation, etc? How about a mixing board - like a mackie board or something? Or can I do everything with my computer system(s) (laptop and desktop?) and keep things more sample based? Or perhaps integrate some sort of software synths? I don't know much about the production side, but have a lot of ideas and would like to start producing some thick tracks, with the ultimate goal of releasing them on some stateside record labels. Great, I really appreciate any advice!

Thanks.

khenu singh

Please E-mail at:

bruceleehifi@hotmail.com



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