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Subject: what scale is this?


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Original Message 1/46                 Date: 05-Apr-00  @  11:46 PM   -   what scale is this?

kid dik

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I know nothing of scales or notes even. As much as I read, it passes over me every time. Help a bone head out, won't cha?



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Message 2/46                 Date: 06-Apr-00  @  12:57 PM   -   RE: what scale is this?

k

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key sig' ??



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Message 3/46                 Date: 07-Apr-00  @  01:14 PM   -   RE: what scale is this?

kid dik

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will you kick me off this site, if I don't know what that means, k?



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Message 4/46                 Date: 07-Apr-00  @  04:29 PM   -   RE: what scale is this?

k

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doh!... see mate.. when you play a scale, it is only a SCALE and not just a sequence of notes, (one after the other), in relation to WHAT you are playing it OVER.. and all bits of music have a KEY SIGNATURE..

ok.. so if you are in a key of C.. playing a major scale produces no sharp notes or flat notes.. all the notes in a C major scale are straight notes.. C,D,E,F,G,A,B,C

BUT... if you change the key to C#.. then playing the same major scale with the correct relative distances to create a major scale WILL play :

C#, D#, F, F#, G#, Bflat, C, C#

on the music sheet on the stave next to the time-signature (4/4. 2/4, 3/8 etc etc) you'll see some sharp or flat symbols arranged... it may be only one sharp icon or it may be several...

this cluster of sharp or flat icons sitting on their own note/pitch-lines on the stave says: EVERYTIME YOU PLAY THIS NOTE.. SHARPEN IT, OR FLATTEN IT... this saves the writer & reader having to write a sharp symbol or flat symbol everyime one occurs in the music as part of the natural key the piece is written in...

so the musician reading it sees the key-sig.. and say.. "aha!!.,. this piece is in G... so i'll play G,A,B,C,D,E,F#,G to play a major scale"... so rather than having the F# sharp symbol strewn all over the music everytime there is an 'F' note, the key sig places a sharp icon on the stave on 'F' key...

G-maj has 1-sharp... D-maj has 2-sharps... E-maj has 4-sharps.. etc - To identify a key-sig, the last sharp on the stave is the one before the Key.. so the last sharp of the key-sig' of D-maj scale is C#

after that, on the sheet music where a note IS flattened or sharpened relative to the KEY, then you DO add a sharp or flat symbol... so as you can see, NOT having a sharp or flat symbol on the music where they naturally occur in that key makes it simpler to see the notes that HAVE been sharpened or flattened within the piece when a sharp or flat symbol appears, amd makes the music less messy & cluttered with sharp & flat icons...

ok.. take another scale...G#-Major

the scale is:

G#, Bflat, C, C#, D#, F, G, G#

as you can see, the Key contains alot of sharps & one flat.. now here it gets wierd.. you dont call A# - A#.. dont ask me the fuck why, you call A#, 'B-FLAT'

so where there is a FLAT note in the KEY-SIGNATURE, all the other notes are converted to FLAT'S instead of sharps as far as I know (fuck i wish I could find that RCM theory book... so the key-signature icons for G#-major is written on the stave as:

Aflat (G#), Bflat(C#), C, D-flat(C#), E-flat(D#), F, G, A-flat(G#)

those are the notes that are played sharp/flat... yeah.. exactly, it is looney toons huh!!..

anyways.... so your arrangements of notes there if started on the first note you show.. is: fucking wierd !! :-)


ha ha ha - i dunno what the fuck it is.. but it doesnt resolve to an octave.... it starts in G# - so assuming that is the Root,

then it goes up a semitone.. it has a minor 3rd.. so it is minor.. but i'm not sufficiently a music theorist to tell you what it is called if the 2nd is flattened ... um... flat_11??... anyone ?? -

if you work back & start on E instead, it seems to have a structure of
E-minor with a flat-5, then it carries on a minor scale of E but flattens the octave to E-flat/D#...
..facking ell !!!... anyone know it - basically mate if you keep the notes the same, but add an extra note and start on E, then sharpen the last note on your scale you'll have a minor

I think therefore it is: E_minor-harmonic with a flat5.. :-)
do i win a fiver?.. & does it actually matter??...



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Message 5/46                 Date: 07-Apr-00  @  09:26 PM   -   RE: what scale is this?

raph

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what are you talking about k?

It's: F#, G, A, A#, C, D, D#, isn't it?

u meant F# not G# eh?

So, yeah, it has flatten second (which may mean flat 9th), flattened 3rd, flat 5th, and flat 6

if you take the 2 semitone intervals (A,A#) and (D,D#), and construct a scale around these, assuming these intervals lie as the 3&4, and 6&7 repsectively, you have F7.

given the flat second, that sounds bad, I don't know if it is a ninth or something. ALso make it minor,
so conventional Fm7?!

I don't know...but you don't call a sequence of notes, like what you've put there a 'scale', you call it a sequence I think



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Message 6/46                 Date: 08-Apr-00  @  01:54 AM   -   RE: what scale is this?

kid dik

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well, who came up with this fucking system? Its a bit like japanesse isn't it. A written language only for the aristocracy? Fuck all if I can figure out what any of you are saying!!! Though you're probably right! Actually, I'm rereading your posts, thank you for the thought, and its starting to make a little sense. Let me ask you this: With these notes I can "riff" for hours on the piano. Sometimes I open my eyes to see what my fingers are doing, and sometimes not. But what is a fella supposed to do if he finds a "sequence" of notes like this and wants to work backwards so he can understand a song from the ground up, in "musical" terms?



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Message 7/46                 Date: 08-Apr-00  @  07:04 PM   -   RE: what scale is this?

k

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raph mate - read what i wrote.. IF you back up and start the sequence on E, (cos he's NOT got a full octave scale there), it makes the EXACT scale of E minor harmonic with a flat 5...



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Message 8/46                 Date: 08-Apr-00  @  08:34 PM   -   RE: what scale is this?

Harmony

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Oh dear...is this realy the extent of musical expertise going round the industry...

Boys, I sencerely reccomend u take a little time 2 consider the rudiments of music theory. True, they are not the be all and end all of musical activities, far from it, but how can u truly understand and communicate your musical ideas without a common means of expression? Cal it Japanese if u like. Japanese is indeed 1 means of communication, the Western tonal marking system is another. This language has been developing since the ninth century, it is a very accurate means of setting a musical idea into something more permanent. I am not suggesting that learning your theory is the way 2 understand music 4 using the tools of the Western notating system is certainly not the way 2 analyse contemporary music; it nevertheless is a part which should not be forgotten. In 1000 years time, the CD player may well be something 4 the archeologist, our lifetime's efforts would therefore be lost.

Consacrating a little time and effort 2 learning the basics of the Western tonal system would do you all some good. Doesnt it worry u not being versatile?

This is very disapointing...



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Message 9/46                 Date: 09-Apr-00  @  03:20 AM   -   RE: what scale is this?

kid dik

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absofuckinglutely................BUT!

Where did you recieve your musical training? I doubt it was solely from a book or a website called Dancetech. More than likely you received your musical education at an institution or from personal tutoring (with the aid, of course, of some books). Well, I'm an american, of a newer generation, and you must be insane if you think our schools taught music. Many schools no longer have LIBRARIES!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! my Harmonic friend(can you see us all the way down here, from the heights of your ivory tower?). I will contract the aid of a musical tutor, as I am now my own man and I can dispense with my resources as I see fit. But until I generate enough resources to contract such a musical aid, I come hear (<- thats for sitar) to Dancetech, to beg wisdom from those more learn'd in the musical ways. Most of whom, will drop sufficient enough crumbs for me, and the likes of me, to carry on our struggle towards musical understanding, if, of course, we can wade past such dull and unhelpful DICKS such as yourself. Excuse the foulness of my tounge (fingers really) but your statement, Harmony, betrays a classist, imperialistic tone I don't take too kindly. Have you posted under the name SOX by any chance?

Anyhow,

sorry to doubt you k, and your musical wisdom ;) just seemed that there was a little bit of confusion in the posts following yours. I should have known better. Please sir, can I have another?



Oh and Harmony: america is the unmitigated mutation, the cancer. Have you not heard of jazz? Have you not seen our painters, so dumb and free, at last capable of unmediated vision, copied, analyzed, formated, compressed, understood, dead? Alas, there are more Californias here than you will know, creekbeds a-glitter with the smiling winking eyes of free and easy gold, indigenous peoples easily placated by the sound of an industrious roulette table, and yes, beaming amber sunsets to set our California girls aflame, oh I wish they all could beeee Californiaa giiirls.



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Message 10/46                 Date: 09-Apr-00  @  03:23 AM   -   RE: what scale is this?

kid dik

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and I did hit return in many places throughout that message, but who knows wtf happened!



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